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[michael123]

Hi

I recently figure out that what I asked for JRiver exists in foobar

Problem: DAC supports DSD64, but no other DSD rates. DSD128 rates today is not uncommon, there are few albums already available

1) Is it possible to improve DSD resampling control so it will follow PCM resampler? I hope it is possible to down-convert DSD128 into DSD64 without going into PCM domain
2) Is it possible to unify PCM and DSD settings under single page?

[blgentry]

Foobar's DSD Processor does not convert DSD to DSD "natively".  It uses PCM in the middle.

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/

(scroll down to the heading "mode 3" and read what it says.)

Now, your second question about DSD and PCM on the same page... for example in the Output Format section... that seems like a great idea.  It's been brought up before.  I'm guessing it requires a bunch of work because the JRiver staff never seem to comment much on the idea.

Brian.

[michael123]

How do I say today to stream DSD64 natively to the DAC, but to convert everything else to PCM 192/24 ?

[Awesome Donkey]

Try enabling DSD bitstreaming.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD

[michael123]

Try enabling DSD bitstreaming.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD

Of course, but that's not what I wrote

How to stream DSD64 natively, but convert DSD128, DSD256, etc. to PCM 192/24  (or DSD64), while having PCM content stream as PCM?

[TheShoe]

Of course, but that's not what I wrote

How to stream DSD64 natively, but convert DSD128, DSD256, etc. to PCM 192/24  (or DSD64), while having PCM content stream as PCM?

set up a zone.  i do it for specific audio channels that are non standard.  the zone has its own DSP studio settings.    likely you could do this for dsd128 or 256

[michael123]

Don't want to setup a zone.
Do want a convenient setup!

I already have one zone for Dirac, and another for native!!

[ the zone is a workaround.. which I had already for couple of years for now.. it is time to re-develop DSD support as a mainstream feature rather than a patch ]

[blgentry]

Yeah, the setup of using Zones to do different conversions *definitely* works.  But I understand what you mean that it doesn't seem like a full solution.  You can't play different zone targeted formats in the same Playing Now for example.  It would be nice if MC had more unified support for conversion of DSD and PCM, as you discussed above.

On the other hand, does your DAC have native internal DSD support?  Or is it converting it to PCM internally?  If the later, you might just try letting MC convert all of your DSD to PCM and see how it sounds to you.  It might be very very similar to what you hear now.  Or not.  Your ears will probably tell you.

Brian.

[michael123]

Yeah, the setup of using Zones to do different conversions *definitely* works.  But I understand what you mean that it doesn't seem like a full solution.  You can't play different zone targeted formats in the same Playing Now for example.  It would be nice if MC had more unified support for conversion of DSD and PCM, as you discussed above.

Great! I am glad somebody understand what I mean,
if you have direct 'access' to Jim & Matt, maybe you can check why they resist on implementing this?

On the other hand, does your DAC have native internal DSD support?  Or is it converting it to PCM internally?  If the later, you might just try letting MC convert all of your DSD to PCM and see how it sounds to you.  It might be very very similar to what you hear now.  Or not.  Your ears will probably tell you.

My DAC is Metronome C6+, it has Amanero USB receiver, what's going inside the device I barely know. Apparently, AKM VERITA 4490 has native DSD input
My friend has EMM XDS1 V2, which for some reason accepts DSD64 only via its USB.

Eventually, I do want to setup two zones, one for Dirac, and another for Direct-to-device. The 'direct' in my setup is mainly for curiosity, as I almost always listen with Dirac.


Yet, going back to original requirement, given a particular zone setup, it is not trivial to say right away what would be a signal path (!)
 

[RD James]

I already have one zone for Dirac, and another for native!!

Perhaps set up your "native" zone to switch based on a sample rate of 2822400 rather than whatever rule you have in place now; e.g. file type = dsf, dff, or sacd.

I agree that having to set up zones for this sort of thing sucks.
The whole way that bitstreaming is set in the options, output format is set in DSP, DSP switching is handled by zones etc is kind of a mess.
It becomes an increasingly complex way of tricking the program into behaving the way you want it to, instead of being set up in a way that makes sense. I don't even know how my setup works any more. Any time I want to make a change I'm spending an hour poring over wiki pages and experimenting until something sort of works like I wanted it to.
I'm sure that this came about by being built up over 23+ versions piece-by-piece, but it could do with a complete overhaul.
 
That being said, for DSD, I recommend converting to PCM rather than bitstreaming anyway - especially if you're using Dirac.

[blgentry]

if you have direct 'access' to Jim & Matt, maybe you can check why they resist on implementing this?

I have no such "access".    But Jim reads pretty much everything that's posted here.  (Hi Jim!)  So you've got his ear.

My DAC is Metronome C6+, it has Amanero USB receiver, what's going inside the device I barely know.

It might be a good experiment to send DSD64 as PCM and see how it sounds.  Then you'll know one way or the other which way you prefer.  It's all software, so you don't even have to swap cables or anything.  If only most audiophile testing was so easy!

Eventually, I do want to setup two zones, one for Dirac, and another for Direct-to-device. The 'direct' in my setup is mainly for curiosity, as I almost always listen with Dirac.

This might obviate our entire discussion.  If you're using Dirac, then you're going through PCM already.  So native DSD isn't an issue.  Dirac, as far as I know, can only take PCM input and output.

Your points and ideas about unified output format for DSD and PCM are still valid.  They just aren't relevant to your situation if you are using Dirac.

Brian.

[michael123]

If you're using Dirac, then you're going through PCM already.  So native DSD isn't an issue.  Dirac, as far as I know, can only take PCM input and output.

Dirac - in my case - is not always used. Sometimes it sounds better without, sometimes it has stability issues, etc.
For my friends, Dirac is either not used at all or very rarely


Hi Jim
What you can say about this feature?

[tyler69]

I also think the resampling options could be done better. I once asked for something similar (consolidation) I guess: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=90247