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Author Topic: Export to iDevice  (Read 4376 times)

john greenwood

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Export to iDevice
« on: November 09, 2017, 07:33:37 am »

I've been having a devil of a time transferring files to my iPad. 

This starts with a bug in iTunes.  I want to down-convert from ALAC to lossy to save space on my iPad, but iTunes sometimes chokes when I select the option to convert on the fly during transfer - and then doesn't report the failure, so I don't discover this until I try to play the file on my iPad and get an error message.  The answer on the Apple forum (standing from 2 years ago) is don't use this option.  Great.

So I thought I might try to do a ALAC -> MP3 320 kbps conversion in JRiver and use the export to iTunes/iDevice feature.  The first thing I discovered was that this only when works when iTunes is running on my computer.*  Having worked that out, I converted a track from "Back in Black," and changed the album tag for that track to Back in Black MP3.  I selected my pseudo album with just the one track.  That was the only track displayed in the pane.  I then ran the export feature to add it to iTunes on the computer.  That seemed to work.  I then tried to use the export feature to copy the one track to my iPad.  That caused JRiver to try to export the entire "Back in Black" album even though the other tracks were on another album and not displayed (although the album was displayed in the album pane).  Moreover the transfer did not work.  I tested this several times with different albums and pseudo-albums.

I am using a Windows 10 computer and an iPad Mini 4, iOS 11.1 and current versions of Windows 10, iTunes and JRiver.

* Maybe - I just tried it again, and JRiver opened iTunes.  That did not happen the first time I tried it.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Export to iDevice
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 03:40:14 pm »

I then ran the export feature to add it to iTunes on the computer.  That seemed to work. it.

From that point, use iTunes on the computer to sync to your iPad. That is the method I used when I had an iPhone.

But also start searching and reading. It isn't going to be simple. Sorry.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,97847.0.html
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,51734.0.html  but that seems to be a little broken now. Read the whole thread or at least the last few pages. Note specifically that the latest releases of iTunes broke MC integration.

Search for posts by Glynor that mention "iPad Sync iTunes". You will find lots of info.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

john greenwood

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Re: Export to iDevice
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 10:39:23 pm »

Thanks.

I'm trying to work out an efficient strategy for using JRiver to load a new iDevice with music, which would likely mean 100 albums or more.  This is where iTunes with it's auto-convert feature was convenient (when it worked).  Using JRiver I would need to:

1. Select the albums (which would be in ALAC or FLAC format - 99.9% of my collection is lossless).
2. Create MP3 versions
3. Move those MP3 versions to iTunes (on my computer)
4. Transfer the MP3 version to my iDevice
5. Delete the MP3s from my iTunes and JRiver libraries
6. Delete MP3 the files themselves

It seems to me the key to this is playlists.  I'm an album oriented codger, so I don't use playlists all that much.  In the real world can one export a playlist from JRiver to iTunes.  It looks like JRiver supports that capability in principle, but I'm not sure how it works.  Do I need to do more than select a playlist in JRiver and export it?

Edit - lost the second half of this post when my ISP decided to do maintenance.  Here's what I came up with.  Exporting a playlist seems to work - so:

1. Create a playlist in JRiver for the albums I wish to transfer to my iDevice.  Add all the albums I want to add to that playlist
2. Convert all the songs on that playlist to MP3 files leaving the originals
3. Delete the lossless versions of the files from the playlist
4. Export the playlist to iTunes
5. Switch over to iTunes. Transfer the tracks on the playlist to my iDevice
6. Using the iTunes playlist, delete the files from the iTunes library.  Do not delete the files themselves.
7. Go back to JRiver.  Open up the playlist of MP3 files I have created.
8. As I cannot delete files from a library or from the actual file system while looking at them as part of a playlist, select all of those files and tag them with all with an invented album name - e.g. "MP3 Files for the Chop."
9. Switch to album view and find "MP3 files for the Chop."  Delete that album and send all tracks to the recycle bin.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Export to iDevice
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 02:01:26 am »

Okay, you are doing too much work. I haven't checked so I'm not positive, but I suspect if you converted your lossless files to mp3s and set the destination to a location on the disk drive that is not watched by Auto Import, you could save some of that work in deleting the mp3s from the library.

But regardless, what you need to do is read, very carefully, this Wiki article: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Sync_Handheld  You need to understand and get the settings right.
Please search the forum for "Sync Handheld" and/or "Handheld Sync" as there are some detailed discussions about how the functionality actually works. Glynor has written a lot about it, and is a heavy user of iDevices.



Then I would be doing something like this.

Once off preparation:
a. Create a directory on my hard disk which has sufficient space for all mp3s I may want to transfer. Make sure it is not in a location where MC Auto Import is watching.
b. Set iTunes to watch the above directory and import any mp3s that appear there into its database, but not move the files. Just index them. Set iTunes to automatically forget any mp3s that disappear from that directory.

First synchronisation to my iDevice:
1. Create a playlist in JRiver for the albums I wish to transfer to my iDevice.  Add all the albums I want to that playlist.
2. Set the Handheld Sync functionality to convert everything to mp3s. Use the Handheld Sync functionality to sync the playlist to the location created above.
3. Check iTunes has my music. Sync iTunes to my iDevice.

Done. Finished. I wouldn't do anything else.

In future, when I wanted to change the music I had on my iDevice:

i. Edit my synchronisation Playlist by adding and removing albums from it, as required.
ii. Use the Handheld Sync functionality to sync the playlist to the location created above.
iii. Check iTunes has my music. Sync iTunes to my iDevice.

Done. Finished. I wouldn't do anything else.

Improvements to the process:
Then I would play around with using more than one Playlist so that I could divide up the sync a bit. Maybe have one playlist per Genre. But also maybe set up real Playlists, because they are synchronised to the hard drive location, and potentially to iTunes, along with the mp3 files. I understand you don't really want to ue Playlists, but heh, it never hurts to try stuff.  :D



Notes:
Mp3s are small, so I wouldn't bother deleting the converted versions of my files between syncs.
When you use the MC export feature to add files to iTunes on the computer, incorporating file conversion, MC uses a cache of the files anyway. So a copy is left behind on your computer until you clear the cache. I don't recall details of where the cache is located, or if you have to manually delete the cache contents. I think you can turn the cache off, but that may be a global MC setting from conversions. Anyway, all that means that using the Sync Handheld functionality doesn't really use much more space. You just know where it is, and how big it is, rather than having the files in a cache somewhere.
I wouldn't try to put all my music on my iDevice. If I did want to do that, then yes, I would probably delete the mp3s from my PC after the sync.
The MC Handheld Sync functionality will convert new files added to my Playlist and sync them to the hard drive location. It would also delete the mp3s that I have removed from the Playlist.
Whenever I say "Playlist" above, I would really be using Smartlists.

Caveat:
It has been a while since I played with Sync Handheld in detail. I may have gotten something wrong.  8)
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

john greenwood

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Re: Export to iDevice
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 03:56:09 am »

OK - i think I follow.  I won't be able to test it until I decide to do an overhaul on one of my iDevices - which may be sooner than expected if i find iTunes choked on a significant percentage of the conversions when I loaded up my iPad 4.

One thing in Glynor's explanation on iPhone support he refers to "MCiS's iTunes File Key."  I'm trying to find more info on that, but the link does not seem to lead to any.

Edit - another question on the iTunes side.

You say:

b. Set iTunes to watch the above directory and import any mp3s that appear there into its database, but not move the files. Just index them. Set iTunes to automatically forget any mp3s that disappear from that directory.

It looks to me as if the current implementation of that capability in iTunes is the "Automatically Add to iTunes" folder

https://support.apple.com/kb/PH19617?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US

I don't see another option in iTunes for watching directories, and it is not clear to me that iTunes automatically forgets files that are deleted from that directory.  Moreover these files are not imported as part of a playlist.  Thus I think I would have to hunt them down in iTunes to transfer them to the iDevice.  (They may be grouped in recently added or maybe I can create a smart playlist in iTunes.)

Further edit - I can see this getting more complicated as I have both more than one iDevice on which I keep music.  If I keep the MP3s around, I would have to have separate directories for each iDevice.  I'm not sure how that would work with iTunes of JRiver.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Export to iDevice
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 03:42:15 pm »

I'm afraid I was taking a little bit of liberty on the iTunes side of the issue. I was never a power user of iTunes, and I haven't used it in anger for quite a while. However, I do believe that it is possible to have iTunes only index and manage files found in specific directories, or used to be. iTunes has had a lot of capability removed from it since I last used it properly, I understand. Maybe the functionality I am referring to has been removed. But the "Automatically Add to iTunes" folder sound right.

Coping with multiple iDevices may make things more complex, I can see. But the MC Sync Handheld functionality can handle multiple devices, although as you say, it would require a separate hard drive directory for each iDevice, using my solution. Note that if you create one or more Playlists to sync files to a virtual Handheld device on your hard disk, the Playlist itself is also synchronised, and hence iTunes can also pick up that Playlist, and then you can use that Playlist in iTunes to sync to a specific iDevice. At least, that is the theory.

I always thought MC iTunes Synchroniser was a bit of overkill because it is a two-way synchronisation, hence my simpler and more easily followed process. But maybe it would be a better solution. It is just that you aren't really trying to synchronise to an iDevice. More trying to dump a list of files to a few of them, which is easier.

I have no idea what the "MCiS's iTunes File Key" is. I assume that is referring to the "Use Alternative File Keys" mentioned at the bottom of the first post of the MC iTunes Synchronizer and later in that 21 page thread. Ah, I see, the link in Glynor's post points to the Sync Handheld Wiki article instead of the original MCiS thread. Maybe he did that because MCiS is old, but I see he is still using it, even with iTunes 12.5.5.5, but no later.

So I can't answer all your questions on this one I'm afraid. I hope that I have pointed you in the direction you need to go. If Glynor sees this thread (or someone prompts him with a PM  ;)) then you might get better answers, as he is the iDevices power user around here.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

john greenwood

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Re: Export to iDevice
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 04:28:56 pm »

First and foremost - thank you for all your advice. 

As a practical matter, I fill up my iDevices when I get them and then - maybe - do an overhaul once or twice over the life of the product.  From time to time I will add an album or a few tracks.  With the availability of Tidal (as long as I am within WiFi range or as a download), I am set.  So using my procedure is not such a burden.

I wish I didn't have to use iTunes at all.  I find it a very buggy product with an irritating interface.  But - I like my iPhone, so I will continue to use it when I absolutely must.

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RoderickGI

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Re: Export to iDevice
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 04:41:55 pm »

It sounds like you have a solution then.

I hated iTunes as well, and it is one reason I won't use iDevices, among others. So many people do hate iTunes, but Apple seems to do what they want with it, and hence their user's systems.  ::)
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner
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