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[Vocalpoint]

I have found that the update of Windows 10 to version 1709 breaks the WinX menu on two of my machines running JRiver v23.  The simply fix is to uninstall Media Center and re-install and do not associate any media types with JRiver.

Just found this on my machine. This morning - I upgraded my Windows 10 1607 install to 1709. This evening - I right clicked in the Start menu to choose PowerShell or Event Viewer or Task Manager etc etc - and found that they all did nothing.

I then found a number of threads on the net and used this little tool - ShellExtView (found at http://www.nirsoft.net) to examine all my shell extensions. This tool lets you hide all the MS items - leaving only those third party items in the list. I had about 20 remaining. I disable all 20 and logged off - came back and my Start menu items were all working.

Then I started re-enabling small blocks of extensions (like WinRAR, Macrium Reflect etc) and logged out and back in each time. After about 5 cycles - I had the Media Center item and few others left - I reabled the Media Center extension and logged off - and came back in - Start menu items were dead.

Then I re-enabled 19 out of the 20 and left the Media Center item disabled and logged off - came back in and Start menu worked perfectly.

Seems the Media Center shell extension (JRShellExt.dll) has the problem. I have disabled that extension permanently.

Cheers,

VP

[AndrewFG]

Hmm. Interesting.

I know a bit about shell extensions, having written one myself. They are quite difficult to code, being based on COM interfaces and stuff.

Windows shell extensions are used to extract meta data from specific file types, and to display that data in Windows Explorer, and on “right click” file property tabs. Apart from the connection with Windows Explorer, they are also used by Windows Search / Indexing so that the respective meta data gets added to the Windows Index database. And the Windows Start Menu Search box (and Cortana) accesses the Windows Index database. Typically Windows Search only kicks in as a background task when other applications and the Windows UI have been left quiet for a longish period.

So the MC symptoms fit. And it implies that the MC shell extension might be mis behaving (not withstanding Jim’s protestations). It’s possible that it may have a thread lock issue, or a COM string object length issue, or a COM object instance count decrement freeing issue, or a DLL unload issue. It would probably also behave differently depending on the media file type and MC’s respective tag read/write add-in for that file type..

[Vocalpoint]

So the MC symptoms fit. And it implies that the MC shell extension might be mis behaving (not withstanding Jim’s protestations). It’s possible that it may have a thread lock issue, or a COM string object length issue, or a COM object instance count decrement freeing issue, or a DLL unload issue. It would probably also behave differently depending on the media file type and MC’s respective tag read/write add-in for that file type..

I had casually watched this thread and since I was on 1607 - I was not seeing any issues at the time. But after last night's discovery and the clear indicator that the JRiver dll is the ONLY shellext causing issues - this one needs a look see.

When I discovered the issue (right click on Start button and choose say Device Manager) - I also noticed a truck load of COM errors in the event log but there was so much going on - I did not immediately see any references to the JRiver (JRShellExt.dll) ext.

There are over 100 shell ext on my PC so this is not a Microsoft bug as Jim keeps insisting. If this was a MS bug - I would expect to see at least a few more extensions from other vendors causing issues - but when you are the only one...

The JRiver guys need to get a test bed done up with v23 installed on an older version of Windows 10 (ideally the Anniversary update 1607) and then do the v1709 upgrade into that older version to replicate this condition.

VP

[Awesome Donkey]

It's funny, I can still reproduce the Start Menu issue on 1709 and I don't use the MC shell extension and never have on any previous Windows installs, actually.

[Vocalpoint]

It's funny, I can still reproduce the Start Menu issue on 1709 and I don't use the MC shell extension and never have on any previous Windows installs, actually.

How are you checking to see what extensions are enabled or not? Oddly - even with my extension disabled via ShellExtView - I can still right click on a FLAC file in Explorer and choose the Media Center menu option.

I also am not convinced that removing all the file associations actually gets the extension out of the way either - but I have not tried that yet. All I know is - as of this moment - on my machine - is that using ShellExtView and setting the JRiver shell extension to Disabled (while leaving all others - 271 of them including the MS extensions) enabled - gives me a perfectly working Start menu.

Tip - if you use cCleaner - you can also disable shell extensions using the Tools applet.

VP

[Awesome Donkey]

How are you checking to see what extensions are enabled or not?

An app called System Explorer. I can right click on FLAC and other media files, and MC isn't in the context menu, so it's not loaded here.

[AndrewFG]

When you install a COM shell extension, you have to initialize its relationship to the COM platform. Often this is done by calling an EXE with a /reg command line switch. And when you uninstall such an extension you use an /UNREG switch. It may be different in MC. Nevertheless it is possible that the disabling of shell integration in MC does not call the deinitialization code. Or possibly perversely even that the OS blocks the un registration due to lack of (say) admin rights..

[Vocalpoint]

An app called System Explorer. I can right click on FLAC and other media files, and MC isn't in the context menu, so it's not loaded here.

What version of Win 10 were you running prior to your usage of v1709?

VP

[Awesome Donkey]

What version of Win 10 were you running prior to your usage of v1709?

Creators Update. Then Anniversary Update before that. Essentially every Windows 10 update release until the next update is out, clean installed, of course.

[Vocalpoint]

Creators Update. Then Anniversary Update before that. Essentially every Windows 10 update release until the next update is out, clean installed, of course.

Understood. That is a different path than I have taken. And it seems you are doing clean installs as well.

For me - I clean installed 1607 to start this machine up and decided that I wanted to do the in-place upgrade this time. So I went from a clean 1607, skipped 1703 completely and moved to 1709 as of yesterday. This is the only glitch that I can account for with any of my major pieces of software.

I have attached a quick snapshot of ShellExtView showing the JRiver extension and it being disabled.

Cheers!

VP

[AndrewFG]

PS there may be wrinkles concerning 32/64 bit. For example Windows Explorer 64 bit cannot (will not) use 32 bit shell extensions, so in that case you won’t see the right click property sheet. When you open Explorer via a normal link or icon, you open an application with the same native bit depth as the OS itself. However (at least in Vista) Microsoft did also ship a 32 bit version of the Explorer application even on 64 bit systems. The 32 bit version was hidden somewhere in System32 I think. So on such a system, if you only had a 32 bit extension registered, then you could see the right click property sheets if you opened the 32 bit Explorer app, but not if you opened the native 64 bit Explorer app. But I don’t know if Windows 10 64 bit still ships with the 32 bit Explorer app. I would have to dig around a bit to confirm.

EDIT:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/895561

[Vocalpoint]

PS there may be wrinkles concerning 32/64 bit. For example Windows Explorer 64 bit cannot (will not) use 32 bit shell extensions, so in that case you won’t see the right click property sheet. When you open Explorer via a normal link or icon, you open an application with the same native bit depth as the OS itself.

To the 32/64bit question - seems that JRiver installs both sets of shell extensions - even tho I am clearly running the 32 bit version here. See the attachments from cCleaner and from Explorer showing the x64 location and both x32 and x64 extensions.

I just opened Explorer in 64 bit Windows 10 1709 and the Media Center context menu appears for me. So it is loading/using the x64 dll in this case.

Next up - I have just built a super clean 1709 Win 10 virtual machine with no apps installed at all . I will install JRiver 23.0.91 into that VM. If the Start menu dies after the app is installed - I think we have confirmed a major problem since there is no other apps in the VM hence no other extensions in play.

UPDATE

Just installed 23.0.91 into a clean install of Windows 10 Fall creators v1709. I left the install stock and made NO changes to file associations or anything else in the MC interface. Oddly - when installed clean - MC offers a selection of pre-determined file associations like FLAC etc - so there is no need to set anything else. I copied a few FLAC files ove to the VM and right clicked on them - the "Play in Media Center" item was available and works normally.

But more odd is that when I run ShellExtView on this VM - there are NO JRiver extensions to be seen. cCleaner does not show anything either.

And the big test - Start menu works just fine - with JRiver installed.

So back to square one. My questions - what needs to happen within MC settings to make this JRShellExt.dll get loaded on my machine so it appears within the ShellExtView list?

And - what is happening in a 1709 upgrade scenario to suddenly cause JRiver's dll to make the Start menu lose action on over half of it's menu items?

VP

[AndrewFG]

Shell extensions get loaded and unloaded on demand. I wonder if your ShellExtView only shows the ones that are loaded? If you right click on a media file in Explorer it causes Windows to load the extension, so it can show the context menu. And Windows has a garbage collection process to unload extensions again after a certain time..

[Vocalpoint]

Shell extensions get loaded and unloaded on demand. I wonder if your ShellExtView only shows the ones that are loaded? If you right click on a media file in Explorer it causes Windows to load the extension, so it can show the context menu. And Windows has a garbage collection process to unload extensions again after a certain time..

Hmm...not sure I agree with that - at least with how these extensions are being displayed in ShellExtView. I can see the JRiver extension on my workstation with ShellExtView whether I click on a file in Explorer or not. I can even reboot the system and go directly to ShellExtView and see the extension there.

Yet on the VM - I right click a FLAC file in Explorer - choose the Open in Media Center command and the file opens in Media Center. I then immediately switch the ShellExView and nothing is visible - even after a Refresh (which can be done right in the viewer). After a reboot - still nothing. I even enabled Media Server to fire up at Startup - still no sign of JRShellExt.dll in the listing for ShellExtView or in cCleaner's Tools->Startup area.

VP

[AndrewFG]

The Explorer right click “open with” menu item is NOT a shell extension. That is a file association, and it does not require a shell extension to be present, and certainly not loaded.

The Explorer right click “properties” menu item will bring up a tabbed dialog that does use shell extensions when available. The extension gets loaded when you hit “properties” and then Windows asks the extension to parse the file in question to extract its properties (i.e. meta data / tag values) for display within the Windows standard dialog. The dialog MAY incorporate extra custom tabs if the extension provides such.

Additionally the Explorer List View displays the files in columns of file attributes. The default view shows file size, date, size and application association. This view does not require an extension since the data comes from the Windows file system. However it is possible to change the list view format to (say) Music, Photos, etc. in which case Windows will load extensions (if any) and ask them to extract the respective meta data from the files.

Earlier versions of Windows had their own in built extensions for extracting meta data from Microsoft office files and its own WMA and WMV formats. And later versions of Windows also include out of the box extensions for ALAC and I think FLAC. So in other words it may still be able to show FLAC file attributes even if the MC extension has not been installed, registered, or loaded..

( http://www.whitebear.ch/music.htm )

[AndrewFG]

Ps I just had a look at the ShellExView website, and reading between the lines of his site, I guess that his app looks at the Windows registry to parse which extensions have been registered there. So in other words it probably doesn’t check if an extension has actually been loaded, but rather it checks if an extension would be loaded under the right circumstances.

So if ShellExView doesn’t show MCs extension, it means that MC has not registered the extension in the Windows registry. I don’t recall the MC setup process: does it ask to enable shell extensions during the install, or do you have to enable that feature under Settings after MC has been installed? If the former, the installer would add the registration entries to the registry during it’s UAC elevated phase. If the latter, probably a restart of MC and or the OS may be required (possibly also with a UAC elevation phase).

[Vocalpoint]

I don’t recall the MC setup process: does it ask to enable shell extensions during the install, or do you have to enable that feature under Settings after MC has been installed? If the former, the installer would add the registration entries to the registry during it’s UAC elevated phase. If the latter, probably a restart of MC and or the OS may be required (possibly also with a UAC elevation phase).

Andrew,

These days - I install MC using a /silent parameter - but it is not very silent. The user still sees the setup GUI which is very annoying - but at least it is quick and there are no questions or stopdown during install. I cannot find or recall any area of Settings that would actually install these extensions - so I have no idea how they are appearing in the registry.

Cheers!

VP

[AndrewFG]

I just did a quick test on my already installed MC v23.

In Settings / General / Shell Options, there is a checkbox Enable Shell Integration. If this was NOT checked, and you then check it and hit Ok, then MC will execute a UAC elevation prompt and execute the registration code for the MC shell extension. All well and good so far.

HOWEVER, if you then uncheck Enable Shell Integration, then MC does NOT execute a UAC elevation, and does NOT execute the deregistration code for the plugin. So in other words, if ever you did once Enable Shell Integration then it remains enabled forever after, no matter what you do in MC settings. This is definitely a bug in MC that needs to be fixed — regardless of its connection or not to the Windows Menu freezing issue.

[Vocalpoint]

I just did a quick test on my already installed MC v23.

In Settings / General / Shell Options, there is a checkbox Enable Shell Integration. If this was NOT checked, and you then check it and hit Ok, then MC will execute a UAC elevation prompt and execute the registration code for the MC shell extension. All well and good so far.

HOWEVER, if you then uncheck Enable Shell Integration, then MC does NOT execute a UAC elevation, and does NOT execute the deregistration code for the plugin. So in other words, if ever you did once Enable Shell Integration then it remains enabled forever after, no matter what you do in MC settings. This is definitely a bug in MC that needs to be fixed — regardless of its connection or not to the Windows Menu freezing issue.

Nice find! And yes - on my personal workstation - this check is on. On the VM I installed last night - it is not on - and that makes sense with what I am seeing via ShellExtView.

However - I went ahead and unchecked shell integration box - and I did get a UAC prompt and MC did something. I then fired up ShellExtView and the JRiver extension is NOT listed. A quick check of cCleaner confirms the same - it had 8 references to the 32bit and 64bit JRShellExt.dll - and now they have all disappeared.

So - it seems the dereg works fine - at least for me it does. And MC seems to work just fine - as does the Start menu.

However - given that MC provides basic file association for popular formats out of the box post install - what exactly is the point of checking this box? What else does the user get?

VP

[AndrewFG]

Interesting..

The MC shell extension is a Context Menu Handler that adds an MC submenu to the Windows Explorer right click menu (MC Play Now, Play Next, Add to Playlist etc.). This sub menu comes and goes when you enable/disable the extension. However the Windows Explorer also has two menus Play with Media Center, and Open with Media Center, which do not depend on the shell extension being enabled, but come instead “automatically” when a given file type extension is associated to MC.

More curiously, your observations are the mirror of what I see: A) you see the Windows Menu Freeze problem, but I do not, whereas B) you can unregister the MC shell integration, but I cannot. Very strange..

[Vocalpoint]

More curiously, your observations are the mirror of what I see: A) you see the Windows Menu Freeze problem, but I do not, whereas B) you can unregister the MC shell integration, but I cannot. Very strange..

To clarify - I do not see a "freeze" issue with the Start menu - I see an inability to launch very specific programs/utilities contained on the menu that appears when I right click directly on top of the Start Button itself.

Judging by the thread response - some users are seeing a complete freeze of the Start menu itself - like it's not appearing etc due to MC running for a while etc.

I have not experienced any of that here. All is well - except for right clicking right on top of the Start Button. But as soon as I disable the JRiver shell extensions - it's all good.

VP

[AndrewFG]

Ha. I never even thought of right clicking to Windows button. Nice feature. You learn something new every day..

However in my case the right click menu does always work just fine independent of whether MC shell is enabled...

[Vocalpoint]

However in my case the right click menu does always work just fine independent of whether MC shell is enabled...

The menu will appear just fine. But you should try clicking on all the items listed there to see if they launch. A few will launch fine - regardless of the JRiver shell ext being available/loaded etc. Others will not. Like Event Viewer, Task Manager etc as I experienced here.

Give that a try - and see if all commands work.

VP

[AndrewFG]

All the commands work for me. Very strange..

PS it’s probably worth pointing out that this right click menu is also a Windows Explorer right click context menu. When one registers a context menu handler in the Windows Registry one has to tell Windows exactly which kind of items the context menu should be applied to (i.e. right click on a file, a folder, a drive, etc.). MC’s “Play xx” context menu is registered for “*, Directory, Drive, file, Folder, opensearchfilefolderresult” whereas by contrast the Norton AntiVirus “Scan xx” menu is registered for “*, Drive, file, Folder, opensearchfilefolderresult”. In the MC case it’s registration for both Directory and Folder looks a bit strange, but perhaps not a showstopper ?? ..

[Vocalpoint]

All the commands work for me. Very strange..

I just tested the "right click on the Start Button menu items" on a few other client machines here - all of which do not have the MC Shell Ext box checked.

All Start Menus work perfectly on all machines.

At least the fix is easy. And since I would never use the Play, Play next etc etc on any files from inside Explorer anyway - no loss of functionality as far as I can see.

VP

[JimH]

However - I went ahead and unchecked shell integration box - and I did get a UAC prompt and MC did something. I then fired up ShellExtView and the JRiver extension is NOT listed. A quick check of cCleaner confirms the same - it had 8 references to the 32bit and 64bit JRShellExt.dll - and now they have all disappeared.

It would probably require a reboot.

[AndrewFG]

It would probably require a reboot.

I tried that. It didn’t make any difference. When Enabling Integration, MC executes a UAC elevation dialog, and if you answer Yes it registers the extension immediately, and you can see that something happened because the MC window flickers. However when disabling integration (trying to) there is no UAC elevation dialog, so you can’t answer yes or no, and the deregistration does not happen, although MCs window does flicker as above..

[Vocalpoint]

It would probably require a reboot.

Well - this worked correctly for me - I did get a UAC dialog when unchecking the box but I did a reboot nonetheless and there are no traces of the Shell Extensions being loaded, enabled or anything.

Exactly the way I want it now

VP