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Author Topic: Movie Info Images  (Read 3121 times)

bklynboy70

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Movie Info Images
« on: March 06, 2018, 08:48:27 pm »

In there any way to have MC get the images for the Movie info from the local thumbnails store vs the movie file / movie file folder?

I've attached two files showing the difference between having an image in the folder and not. In both cases the thumbnail can be seen in the files view, but when you hover over a movie to get the file info only the movie with a resident image in the file folder displays an image co-incident with the movie info.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 10:30:48 pm »

In there any way to have MC get the images for the Movie info from the local thumbnails store vs the movie file / movie file folder?

The simple answer is no.

You can change the text in the tooltip that pops up for movies and other media types, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't extend to being able to alter the image shown in the tooltip. It would be nice if it did because then it could be resized as a user required.

So I can't see that there would be any way to tell MC to use a thumbnail image rather than the full image from a file.

The decision was made years ago that for movies Cover Art must be in the directory next to the media file. That isn't going to change.


What you are asking for would require a functional enhancement.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

tij

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 11:52:34 pm »

i have images in folder and all works fine

i think MC uses thumbnails for displaying images you missing (as mine stored in folders are much larger than is needed)

my guess MC is missing thumbnails for images that are not displaying ... try rebuilding missing thumbnails

options -> tree & view -> Thumbnails -> build missing thumbnails
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HTPC: Win11 Pro, MC: latest 31(64b), NV Driver: v425.31, CPU: i9-12900K, 32GB RAM, GeForce: 2080ti
Screen: LG 2016 E6
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bklynboy70

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 12:16:31 am »

The simple answer is no.

...

The decision was made years ago that for movies Cover Art must be in the directory next to the media file. That isn't going to change.


What you are asking for would require a functional enhancement.

I was pretty sure and afraid that was going to be the answer... It also sound like if I put this in for a "feature request" the answer would be no...

I don't understand the architecture of the MC software, but this sounds like an If then Else....

If Flag set, then use thumbnail image database (jmd files) else business as usual;

Any hints as to whether I'm wasting my time if a do put in for a feature request?

Thank you again for the input.

Take care,

Rob
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tij

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 12:25:54 am »

Try rebuilding missing thumbnails ... and see if it works
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Hendrik

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 01:01:38 am »

Thumbnails are basically an image cache in smaller sizes. If you never had a movie poster in full size, you would also never have a thumbnail. As such, it really doesn't make sense to consider them individually. Sure if you create a thumbnail and then delete the original image, the thumbnail is still present, but that seems hardly like a usual case.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 01:34:48 am »

Rob is asking about the image shown in the popup movie tooltip tij, which is always the image file next to the movie media file, as his tests have proven. So a different issue to missing thumbnails.

I think Hendrik's answer is more of a "That wouldn't make sense for most users" rather than a no.

The real issue for me is, why do you want to use thumbnails instead of the full-size image?

Bandwidth usage from a MC Server to a Client?
Don't want to put the movie image files next to the media file, and if so, why? (Particularly as you would have to put them there to build the thumbnail database, and any thumbnail rebuild run would delete them.)
Some other reason?

All functionality requests are weighed based on them making sense, and of being of use to a lot of users, rather than a few. Plus management of limited programming resources, and not breaking functionality that others use and rely on. So if a case could be made...


But thumbnail images are basically throw away items, both in Windows and in MC. They are just a way of speeding up image display when quality isn't a concern. Plus they allow lots of images of various sizes (small, medium, and large typically) to be stored in one file, indexed for fast retrieval, rather than having lots of small images in a directory wasting space due to the file system in use.

That's my understanding anyway. I'm not a JRiver employee so I'm extrapolating here a bit.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

Hendrik

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 01:37:23 am »

Sounds about right. Thumbnails are just smaller copies of the original image, and "volatile" in nature - ie. if you delete the original, MC may decide to invalidate the thumbnail as well at some point and remove it.
So what exactly are you trying to achieve? Do you just want the image to be smaller in the tooltip?
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bklynboy70

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 02:51:40 am »

Sounds about right. Thumbnails are just smaller copies of the original image, and "volatile" in nature - ie. if you delete the original, MC may decide to invalidate the thumbnail as well at some point and remove it.
So what exactly are you trying to achieve? Do you just want the image to be smaller in the tooltip?

I have about 8000 dvds in a 40+ TB network store. Early on I noticed that my teens and wife would accidentally move files or delete files. The network store is now read only. Prior to MC, we would simply launch each file via the video_ts.ifo. This is how I taught them to do it. When I add a thumbnail to MC, it tries to update the file, but is unable to do so due to write privileges. The quality of the "large" thumbnails are amazing and on my 60" plasma, I can't tell the difference between the original and files (2000x3000). Especially since my 1080p setup can't display that resolution.

Now although I've installed MC on all my HTPCs, there are still some holdouts in the fam that still use the windows explorer to access the files. The addition of artwork to each folder with a title of video_ts.jpg has caused them to accidentally keep opening the jpg and not the ifo. So I get complaints. Using a different name as cover.jpg or artwork.jpg would have remedied this situation. Sorta the way CDs do, when provide the artwork images in the CD themselves.

Prior to all the complaints, I was slowly upgrading 8 years of work and directory structures to upgrade them to be MC compliant. I have to remotely log into my media server and upgrade them. I've now stopped because of my family's complaints. So I'm stuck with a hodgepodge and I'm ready to do a global search for video_ts.ifo and delete them all. This will make the fam happy, but will lose the "tooltip" images, which is a nice MC touch.

I'm pretty certain, based on my system's resolution, that I can live with the large thumbnails database images. Why not allow the users to decide if they want to have MC be self contained to each HTPC when they are running large media servers? Hard drive space is cheap, and the images are not all that large in bytes by today's standards. Maybe I'm odd man out, but with such a highly flexible piece of SW I don't see my a little more flexibility can't be added in to allow this request. It will save me a lot of time and work and maintain my existing directory structures, which will make my family happy...

Now you know my dilemma and why I wanted to simply use the large thumbnails, since the database is already there.

Thank you and take care,

Rob
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tij

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 04:17:01 am »

tried deleting image from one of folder ... and guess what? ... movie info sceen is lacking that image lol ... for me it was worst ... thumbnail dissapeared too lol

doing change to 8000+ library is tough ... breaking old habits is tough also

one solution is to make jpg hidden? ... another is to start of HTPC in TheatreView and keep it there (forcing ppl to use JRiver lol)
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RoderickGI

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 06:21:20 am »

Converting from one system or methodology to another is always a difficult and sometimes a big task. Especially for users. I would first set up MC views that met all their needs, and then I would take away the crutch they are using. i.e. Make it so that they can't run Windows Explorer, so can't access files that way. Tough love though. There will be more complaints. They will learn.

In all my years of doing change management the four things that most threatened a project were the requirements not being defined correctly, the solution not meeting real user requirements, training, and leaving the old system in place for users to use as a crutch.

If your family are all using MC Clients, and the MC Server is a separate PC as seems likely from what you have said, you can give the Client Read Only access to the MC Server, which will also stop accidents. You should probably also ensure that they are Normal Windows users and not Admin users on the Client PCs. I would then change the files back to be read/write, so that MC can do its job properly. If you wished you could even set up permissions so that your UserID could write to the files, but their UserID could only read them. But that may be a level of complexity you don't want to get into. I haven't looked into the Users function in MC, but maybe that can be used to restrict what your family can do so that they can't break anything. But if they have Windows Explorer, they will fall back to using it, and will continue to break things.

The video_ts.ifo files contain configuration information like menus, subtitles, aspect ratio, languages, etc., so probably not a good idea to delete them if you ever want to use the DVD Menu instead of just watching the main feature. MC can use the DVD menus, and sometimes they are handy for extras, languages, and other features. BTW my DVDs that have been imported into MC all have file names that end in video_ts.dvd;1. That is, I believe, internal MC nomenclature which points to the main feature in the DVD. I don't know if it points to the BUP, VOB, or IFO file, but if you deleted the IFO files I'm sure MC would still import the DVD and allow tooltips. If you did delete the IFO files you may need to reimport the DVDs though. But I wouldn't delete the IFO files. I'd fix the real core issue.

Anyway, MC is going to put not only jpg files, but JRSidecar.xml and possibly subtitle files next to the movie file. So it really isn't a good idea to launch a movie using Windows Explorer. Once that issue is resolved, there is no longer an issue with the image files.

On the bright side if you show the family the power of MC Theatre View, to search for, sort, and categorise movies and other media files, I think you can win them away from using Windows Explorer.

Want to watch a Horror film? Here they all are.
Want to watch something from the '80's? Here they are.
How about all the movies that Clint Eastwood made? Here is the list.
Movies recently added? Here you go.
Particular director? Yep.
HD only? Here is the list.

Want some other view? That can be built as well.

You should be able to knock their socks off.

Another point: You don't need to update directory structures to use the full power of MC. You just need to have good tagging of the files. The "Get Movie & TV Info..." function does that for you. Sure, it would take a while to do 8000 movies, but you could easily do them 100 or 1000 at a time, once you understand how that works and what to expect if movies aren't well named. You can update directory structures and files names later, if you wished. Or not. Once you have the tags in place, or enough to experiment with, you can build Views that the family wants.


Finally, I can understand your point about using thumbnails instead of image files, particularly on MC Client PCs. But that isn't addressing the core problem. If your family don't have a jpg file to accidentally click on, they will click on the xml file. Or something else. Use the power of MC to show them a better way.


How does all that sound?
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

bklynboy70

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 07:12:16 am »

Converting from one system or methodology to another is always a difficult and sometimes a big task. Especially for users. I would first set up MC views that met all their needs, and then I would take away the crutch they are using. i.e. Make it so that they can't run Windows Explorer, so can't access files that way. Tough love though. There will be more complaints. They will learn.

In all my years of doing change management the four things that most threatened a project were the requirements not being defined correctly, the solution not meeting real user requirements, training, and leaving the old system in place for users to use as a crutch.

If your family are all using MC Clients, and the MC Server is a separate PC as seems likely from what you have said, you can give the Client Read Only access to the MC Server, which will also stop accidents. You should probably also ensure that they are Normal Windows users and not Admin users on the Client PCs. I would then change the files back to be read/write, so that MC can do its job properly. If you wished you could even set up permissions so that your UserID could write to the files, but their UserID could only read them. But that may be a level of complexity you don't want to get into. I haven't looked into the Users function in MC, but maybe that can be used to restrict what your family can do so that they can't break anything. But if they have Windows Explorer, they will fall back to using it, and will continue to break things.

The video_ts.ifo files contain configuration information like menus, subtitles, aspect ratio, languages, etc., so probably not a good idea to delete them if you ever want to use the DVD Menu instead of just watching the main feature. MC can use the DVD menus, and sometimes they are handy for extras, languages, and other features. BTW my DVDs that have been imported into MC all have file names that end in video_ts.dvd;1. That is, I believe, internal MC nomenclature which points to the main feature in the DVD. I don't know if it points to the BUP, VOB, or IFO file, but if you deleted the IFO files I'm sure MC would still import the DVD and allow tooltips. If you did delete the IFO files you may need to reimport the DVDs though. But I wouldn't delete the IFO files. I'd fix the real core issue.

Anyway, MC is going to put not only jpg files, but JRSidecar.xml and possibly subtitle files next to the movie file. So it really isn't a good idea to launch a movie using Windows Explorer. Once that issue is resolved, there is no longer an issue with the image files.

On the bright side if you show the family the power of MC Theatre View, to search for, sort, and categorise movies and other media files, I think you can win them away from using Windows Explorer.

Want to watch a Horror film? Here they all are.
Want to watch something from the '80's? Here they are.
How about all the movies that Clint Eastwood made? Here is the list.
Movies recently added? Here you go.
Particular director? Yep.
HD only? Here is the list.

Want some other view? That can be built as well.

You should be able to knock their socks off.

Another point: You don't need to update directory structures to use the full power of MC. You just need to have good tagging of the files. The "Get Movie & TV Info..." function does that for you. Sure, it would take a while to do 8000 movies, but you could easily do them 100 or 1000 at a time, once you understand how that works and what to expect if movies aren't well named. You can update directory structures and files names later, if you wished. Or not. Once you have the tags in place, or enough to experiment with, you can build Views that the family wants.


Finally, I can understand your point about using thumbnails instead of image files, particularly on MC Client PCs. But that isn't addressing the core problem. If your family don't have a jpg file to accidentally click on, they will click on the xml file. Or something else. Use the power of MC to show them a better way.


How does all that sound?

LOL, we are hispanic so we are stuborn... I tried locking them out of the network store and force them to use MC. They stated using Netflix and Amazon prime... So that plan fell apart.

Doing all right from the start is impossible. I do SysEng and CompEng for the gov. I work a lot of OT, weekends and holidays. Additionally I have stage 3 COPD. With work and illness time, I don't have much free time. Piece wise delivery is the best I can do. Either way it's 99% up and running now. I'm just missing the tooltip images, which really make MC pop with my CS, EE, and CompE friends come over to hang out and watch flix (yes all my friend are geeks, but I can't help it. I work on a base with 3500 scientist and engineers... slim pickings).

We already do searches by actors, genres, titles, etc. They just want their system back the way they like it. In all my years of engineering (25+), I've noticed that compromises are a must at time to meet as many of the users requirements as possible. In this case, I must compromise and lose the tooltip images, so they don't click the wrong file.

I have not found anything that I could not do with MC to meet my needs until now. It's not the end of the world.  I can live without the tooltip images. It's just a pity 'cause they look so darn cool!
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bklynboy70

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2018, 07:13:17 am »

Thank you all for your help!!!

I greatly appreciate it.

Take care,

Rob
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RoderickGI

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 03:25:48 pm »

Ah family. Well, you have gotta love 'em.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

bklynboy70

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Re: Movie Info Images
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2018, 05:39:33 pm »

Ah family. Well, you have gotta love 'em.
LOL, I concur!
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