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[jmone]

Just doubled checked.  It is D3D11 3D when playing BD 3D and D3D9 when playing BD 2D.  If I enable "Diect3D 11" in madVR then I get a repetitive flicker with 2D content (when playing the movie, but it goes away when you bring up any OSD but it drops to 8-Bit). 

Anyway, this is a bit off topic ... I was intending the post to be about going through the steps to get 3D working reliably.  Once it is working then by all means play with other settings as I'm sure there will be various combinations that work for different setups.  This one works for me with the current versions I listed.  Prior to this it was a different combination but.... something changed in the drivers/os/madvr/lav/mc that broke my previous setup (though we so rarely watch 3D I have no idea when it broke or why).

[RoderickGI]

That could be it. I haven't turned on 10 bit yet. Well, I did have it on, but it made Windows look horrible, as I didn't have the TV set to 10bit. So I turned it off.

I have 4K working, and I'm pretty much using the setting you are using. Just haven't tested 3D properly yet. I shall refine what I have done later and test 3D.

[TheShoe]

For me the solution seemed to be the Windows 10 Spring update combined with the latest nVidia drivers (version posted earlier in this thread).

Essentially, the toggle on/off for 3D using the Windows OS setting now properly always controls the nVidia control panel toggle as well.  And everything now works perfectly in Window mode rather than FSE, which makes even the UX more pleasing.

I can remove the custom profiles I set up now in madVr as they don't add anything useful.

really for the first time I have everything working 100% perfectly without some little compromise somewhere in the chain of hardware or software.

[JrPinto]

Hi, There!

3D ISO Bluray is working here, but image is stuttering. Audio plays OK.

My setup is JRiver 24 on Windows 10 at a Zotac Nano PC ID68 (Intel HD 4400 graphics).

Is this setup good enough to run ISO 3D flawlessly?

Thanx in advance.

[rec head]

Soooooo close. I updated to W10 1803. Latest Nvidia version 398.11 (released yesterday).  I made the DPI changes as above. 3D works. 4K HDR works. Switching between them works.

My problem is that regular old 1080P isn't upscaling to 2160. It is being sent to the TV as 1080. The TV upscaling is good most of the time but some content like the dark scenes or gray cloudy scenes in GoT some episodes are not handled nearly as good as madVR.

I made no changes to my madvr profiles that were previously upscaling 1080 to 2160 and I didn't want to before checking with the wisdom of the crowd.

Any ideas?

I can't remember when I last watched 3D on this TV but I'm still so impressed. Its nice to have it back.

[TheShoe]

if you set up two profiles in madvr, one for 3D and one for 2D and then for each tell it what are the allowed display resolutions it will scale for you.   i did this and that is exactly what happens.  you beed to also set a rule for madvr to tell it what profile to select

also disable jriver resolution change and let madvr do it

there is another thread with details on how to do this.  can also reply later with the steps but too much to type out on a phone 😉

[jmone]

As Hendrik has said, you are better off with MC's display rate changer (avoids making a display change when the filter graph is already built).... and FYI here is what I set (for a PAL country so if you are in a NTSC Challenged country you will want to set your "Default" setting to 59hz). 

[rec head]

As Hendrik has said, you are better off with MC's display rate changer (avoids making a display change when the filter graph is already built).... and FYI here is what I set (for a PAL country so if you are in a NTSC Challenged country you will want to set your "Default" setting to 59hz). 

if you set up two profiles in madvr, one for 3D and one for 2D and then for each tell it what are the allowed display resolutions it will scale for you.   i did this and that is exactly what happens.  you beed to also set a rule for madvr to tell it what profile to select

also disable jriver resolution change and let madvr do it

there is another thread with details on how to do this.  can also reply later with the steps but too much to type out on a phone 😉

Sorry, are you guys saying exactly the opposite or am I misunderstanding? I'm not sure if MC's display rate changer is the same as JRiver resolution changer.

Thanks again.

[rec head]

I've been playing around. I can get everything to work if keep MC's Display Setting set for UHD then manually switch MC's Display settings prior to playing a 3D movie.

Oddly I erased everything in my User\Plugin folder but my madVR settings.bin file did not change. Could this be because I still have MC23 still installed?

[jmone]

Yup different advice - and neither or both may be right!  I suggest using MC's Display changer.

On the madVR side, Hendrik may be able to shed some light on what the default MC settings are and how they are retained.  From memory, if there is nothing in the settings.bin file, madVR populates it from values it has also stored in the registry....

[TheShoe]

yup - try each!  i am continually amazed how things vary from seemingly similar setup to setup

the cool thing is you have the options.  now to find the time and patience...

[RoderickGI]

I have now implemented 4K for all my video on my HTPC. I changed those settings I needed to to match what you described in your post Jmone: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=115543.msg803243#msg803243

What I have different is:
1. I'm using a presentation queue of 8 frames rather than 4. Why 4?
2. When I set up 3D in the nVidia Control Panel I only had the options of 8 or 12 bit, so selected 12 bit. I don't have HDR content, and haven't turned on HDR & WCG (Wide Colour Gamut) in Windows 10 yet, but plan to try that as my TV can handle it. I assume that my TV is telling the nVidia driver that it is capable of 12 bit colour, and that is will use 10 bit if that is what the source provides.... But now I check again it is back to 8 bit colour. Hmmm. Maybe I had HDR turned on in Windows and/or on the TV when I ran the wizard.
3. I have the Windows 10 Custom Scaling Option set to 200% so that MC is readable on the TV from 3.5 metres away. This doubled the default font from 9 to 18 points, which was too big, so I dropped it back to 14 points, which works fine. Options > Tree & View > Advanced > Select font.
4. I have set the "Media Center 24.exe" to use the "High DPI Scaling Override" to "Application".


Things I noticed, and questions.
a. To play 3D content i do indeed need to play the main movie title only. 3D doesn't work when the Blu-ray menu is activated. In fact the menu doesn't work either, showing a message "3D EXPERIENCE REQUIRES 3D ENABLED TV & PLAYER" after a short display of a black screen. Will 3D blu-ray menus ever be possible?
b. When playing 3D content madVR does report D3D11 is being used, even though I don't have it turned on in madVR. 2D content uses D3D9.
c. The madVR Statistics display is also shown in 3D. Surprise!
d. MY TV does indeed switch to 1080p when 3D content is detected. As there are no user settings to make this happen, I assume that switching is built into the MC 3D functionality. Or is the nVidia driver doing the switching?
e. As I have the Windows 10 scaling set to 200%. when 3D is playing in 1080p instead of 4K the top drop-down OSD display is double size. But still usable. The font size might be contributing to that also.

So basically it all works with the settings recommended.

No need to change madVR settings to do the Display Resolution changes. MC is doing it all.  Note that I didn't reset madVR before testing 3D, I just change the settings as required. I am using Jinc for both Chroma and Up/Down scaling. As per my signature, I'm using a NVidia MSI GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING X, 6GB card with the latest drivers, 397.93.


Now what happens if I turn on HDR in Windows and on the TV...

[jmone]

1. I'm using a presentation queue of 8 frames rather than 4. Why 4?

It can be a bit hit a miss on if frames get dropped with various settings.  If 8 works for you then it is fine. Don't sweat it.

2. When I set up 3D in the nVidia Control Panel I only had the options of 8 or 12 bit, so selected 12 bit. I don't have HDR content, and haven't turned on HDR & WCG (Wide Colour Gamut) in Windows 10 yet, but plan to try that as my TV can handle it. I assume that my TV is telling the nVidia driver that it is capable of 12 bit colour, and that is will use 10 bit if that is what the source provides.... But now I check again it is back to 8 bit colour. Hmmm. Maybe I had HDR turned on in Windows and/or on the TV when I ran the wizard.

There is a known issue with JVC PJ using 8-Bit RGB and HDR - I have to use YCbCr422 @ 10Bit due to this (else I get a Purple Push).  What Joy.

3. I have the Windows 10 Custom Scaling Option set to 200% so that MC is readable on the TV from 3.5 metres away. This doubled the default font from 9 to 18 points, which was too big, so I dropped it back to 14 points, which works fine. Options > Tree & View > Advanced > Select font.

I find the scaling at 200% works well BUT you MUST reboot the PC when you change the scaling before playing content in MC or weird stuff like this happens

a. To play 3D content i do indeed need to play the main movie title only. 3D doesn't work when the Blu-ray menu is activated. In fact the menu doesn't work either, showing a message "3D EXPERIENCE REQUIRES 3D ENABLED TV & PLAYER" after a short display of a black screen. Will 3D blu-ray menus ever be possible?

Unlikely.  For 3D Playback we need LAV Splitter.  For Menus we need the libblurary.  Unless the devs of libbluray add 3D Support then we can only ever get Title Playback.

b. When playing 3D content madVR does report D3D11 is being used, even though I don't have it turned on in madVR. 2D content uses D3D9.

That is correct.  3D content uses D3D11 and will use it regardless of what you set in madVR.  On my System I (now) have to leave the madVR setting at D3D9 and without windows overlay else I get some weird issue that looks like the frames are out of order.  There is no issue with D3D9.

c. The madVR Statistics display is also shown in 3D. Surprise!
d. MY TV does indeed switch to 1080p when 3D content is detected. As there are no user settings to make this happen, I assume that switching is built into the MC 3D functionality. Or is the nVidia driver doing the switching?

LAV is doing the magic of seeing it is a 3D disc, then using a specific MS DLL to deliver frame packed 3D to your TV/PJ.

e. As I have the Windows 10 scaling set to 200%. when 3D is playing in 1080p instead of 4K the top drop-down OSD display is double size. But still usable. The font size might be contributing to that also.

I've not seen this ... did you reboot after making all the changes?  (note I don't do any MC exclusions on the DPI front).

So basically it all works with the settings recommended.

No need to change madVR settings to do the Display Resolution changes. MC is doing it all.  Note that I didn't reset madVR before testing 3D, I just change the settings as required. I am using Jinc for both Chroma and Up/Down scaling. As per my signature, I'm using a NVidia MSI GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING X, 6GB card with the latest drivers, 397.93.

Now what happens if I turn on HDR in Windows and on the TV...

It looks much better with UHD contnet!   ...but you don't turn on HDR in Windows.  Just check that madVR has "let madVR decide" under the Devices--> Your Screen--> HDR menu (should already be on).  madVR OSD will tell you what colour space it is pushing to your TV for all content (eg PAL, 709, 2020 etc)

[jmone]

...made some edits above.  Now just kick back with a bevy and watch some content!  Much better than twisting knobs and settings

[RoderickGI]

...but you don't turn on HDR in Windows. 

I was talking about setting the Windows desktop to HDR, which is a option under Windows Display setting; "HDR and WCG"

I turned that on once and it made Chrome look awful, which I have since found is a known problem. Anyway, I hadn't turned on HDR support on my TV yet so I turned off the Desktop HDR. Now I can't turn it back on, as the setting won't stick. IF I turn on HDR support on my TV with just the Desktop or an App showing, the TV tells me it is receiving no signal.

So, some issues to resolve.

Just check that madVR has "let madVR decide" under the Devices--> Your Screen--> HDR menu (should already be on).

Thanks fo mentioning that. it was still set to "Convert HDR to SDR" which could be part of the issue above, or not. Anyway, now set to let madVR decide.

[TheShoe]

...made some edits above.  Now just kick back with a bevy and watch some content!  Much better than twisting knobs and settings

nice.   yes indeed.  there is a bit of a lull in 4K content and time to catch up on all these rips

by the way - for an incredible 3D experience watch Pixar’s The Good Dinosaur.   or the Hobbit Extended movies.   the 3D is stellar on a good set of hardware

[RoderickGI]

I worked out, or stumbled upon, how to turn on the Windows Display setting "HDR and WCG" again... and it completely broke my 3D setup. I gave up trying to fix it last night. The nVidia 3D wizard wouldn't even work correctly, showing only one side of the 3D images sets.

The setting did make a difference though, as images had noticeably higher contrast and the Desktop was brighter with the setting on. But not worth it if 3D doesn't work.

So folks, don't turn on the Windows Display setting "HDR and WCG" if you want to use 3D.

[rec head]

AFAIK the Windows HDR settings don't have anything to do with watching HDR movies so I have always left it off.

Also for me at least when I'm done watching 3D or HDR I need to hit STOP on the remote instead of the BACK button. BACKing out of HDR makes for super contrasty nastiness. BACKing out of 3D requires a CTRL+ALT+DEL or worse to get any image on the screen. Just hitting STOP avoids both scenarios.

[RoderickGI]

AFAIK the Windows HDR settings don't have anything to do with watching HDR movies so I have always left it off.

Yes I believe it just changes the Desktop Gamut and Contrast, which is HDR.

I found that Windows was stuck in 3D mode as shown un the Display Settings after turning on HDR and trying to play 3D. Turning that off allowed me to re-run the nVidia 3D Wizard, and get 3D working again. SO I would say Desktop HDR isn't ready for prime time, at least on my hardware.

I always press STOP, unless I want to go back to what is playing, even for normal video. It sounds like the consequences are worse with 3D video.

[TheShoe]

was experimenting a bit more last night...  i removed all the 1080p modes from my madvr 2D profile and now all video scales to 2160p, verified by madvr, my marantz, and tv.   except 3D of course

i do find that after a lot of resolution and refresh rate switching and tv on/off for a day or two results eventually in having to kill the MC process.  things hang somewhere in the chain of software.   barely a minor annoyance.   

for HDR i leave it off on the desktop.   generally outside of MC imdont use the htpc for much else save an occasional game.   have to put that 1080TI to other uses after all.

[RoderickGI]

As suggested above, I don't have any display modes set in madVR and let MC do Display Mode switching.

I have 4K working for all content except 3D, which is 1080p and switches automatically when 3D content is played, but only when played in Title mode. No 3D BD menus.

It is working well so far. I haven't used it enough to say whether MC needs restarting after a time.

[jmone]

Could you "guys" check something?  On my setup I'm seeing some difference in Lip Sync timing between 3D and 2D playback.  This Wiki page has some A/V Sync test clips - https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Lip_Sync

Could you test the Film Vs 3D film clips and see if they both have the same Lip Sync timing.  For me the audio is about 128ms earlier on the 3D than the 2D versions.

Thanks
Nathan

[rec head]

Lip sync drives me nuts. I'll try and work up the courage to test it.

[rec head]

Using those patterns I don't really have a difference. Now I just need a 4K HDR pattern.


Just thought about something... need to check my AVR settings because that is where I normally make adjustments.

[jmone]

Thanks - I'll play more (when I have time) to see what is so special about my setup.   Then again we don't really watch 3D so I can always just change it when needed.

[rec head]

It was pretty disappointing a couple nights ago when 3D didn't work when we actually wanted to use it. The only change I had made was to upgrade to .41. I deleted the new LAV filters, uninstalled .41 and installed 24.0.19 because that was the first download I found on my PC. I everything works again. I was still manually switching between 2160 and 1080.

Then after playing around testing files I went to the A/V sync files mentioned above while I was in 2160. The last one I played was the 3D file. I didn't dawn on me at first but it was playing the 3D perfectly. I hit ctrl+j to see what madVR was doing and it was sending 1080 to the TV. I stopped the 3D file and went to a UHD HDR file and it played at 2160. I have no idea why everything is working. I have backed up the MC library and created a restore point.

The HTPC has always been the server and main client. I am now seriously considering making my other PC the server and blocking my HTPC from the internet in the router.

[jmone]

After a bunch of twiddling with settings (mostly nvidia and the PJ setup), I've got it all working without lipsync issues.

[JrPinto]

Let me ask you again, to see if someone can help me with this issue:

3D ISO Bluray is working here, but image is stuttering. Audio plays OK.

My setup is JRiver 24 on Windows 10 at a Zotac Nano PC ID68 (Intel i5 processor, Intel HD 4400 graphics, Samsung 120GB SSD, 8GB RAM).

Using a modified version of KODI with this setup, I could run Bluray ISO 3D perfectly.

Is this setup good enough to run Bluray ISO 3D flawlessly on JRiver?

Do I have to make any special adjustments on madVR?

Thanx in advance.

[Hendrik]

The CPU or graphics card might be too weak, its hard to tell over all the generations of hardware.

[tij]

Let me ask you again, to see if someone can help me with this issue:

3D ISO Bluray is working here, but image is stuttering. Audio plays OK.

My setup is JRiver 24 on Windows 10 at a Zotac Nano PC ID68 (Intel i5 processor, Intel HD 4400 graphics, Samsung 120GB SSD, 8GB RAM).

Using a modified version of KODI with this setup, I could run Bluray ISO 3D perfectly.

Is this setup good enough to run Bluray ISO 3D flawlessly on JRiver?

Do I have to make any special adjustments on madVR?

Thanx in advance.

Post screenshot of Ctr+J … you might have set MadVR setting too high for your hardware … that screenshot will hopefully tell us something

[JrPinto]

Post screenshot of Ctr+J … you might have set MadVR setting too high for your hardware … that screenshot will hopefully tell us something

I tried to Ctrl+J but it only starts the update.

Tried to test with 2D mkv files using Red October HQ and the movie doesn't start at all. Screen goes black and nothing works, so I have to press stop to go back to the main screen.

I think there is really something wrong with MadVR settings.

Anyone to help?

[TheShoe]

Let me ask you again, to see if someone can help me with this issue:

3D ISO Bluray is working here, but image is stuttering. Audio plays OK.

My setup is JRiver 24 on Windows 10 at a Zotac Nano PC ID68 (Intel i5 processor, Intel HD 4400 graphics, Samsung 120GB SSD, 8GB RAM).

Using a modified version of KODI with this setup, I could run Bluray ISO 3D perfectly.

Is this setup good enough to run Bluray ISO 3D flawlessly on JRiver?

Do I have to make any special adjustments on madVR?

Thanx in advance.

the kodi version you are using was specifically created using the intel media sdk.   i believe you have hardware decoding at work when you use it but in any case it is designed around intel gpus specifically, and even then each release (i think it is officially dead now) had issues.   i found the lip synch to be the most aggrevating of all.

lav+madvr i think do all mvc decoding in software, though i could certainly be wrong.

quite a while ago i tried lav+madvr in jriver on an intel gpu and i had not only stuttering but eventual crashes.    i seem to recall tweaking the cpu and gpu queue sizes and that helped with the stuttering but inevitably it crashed again.

in the end i built a new htpc, slapped an nvidia 1080 Ti in it and everything works.

[tij]

Hmmm … never tried 3D without GPU … mine runs with 1070 … though envy @TheShoe a lot for his 1080Ti

cannot afford new GPU as blown all my money on SuperMicro 36HDD chassis (could only afford to put 4 He12 drives in there … whatta joke lol)