INTERACT FORUM

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Issue with DSD files  (Read 2780 times)

EfeTe

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Issue with DSD files
« on: April 26, 2018, 01:24:24 pm »

Apologies if this has been adressed before, But I am really zero computer literate (where is my Sinclair Spectrum at 48kb?) :) and can't seem to find what's happened or where the problem lies.

Been using JRiver for ages and the match with my equipment is made in Heaven, can't complain. My dac is a PS Audio Directsream Junior, my connection is a hardwired LAN using Powerline adapters. So far it had been a joy to playback my DSD folder through its Bridge II render, and then on to the amp really really good. I don't know what I've done but, for some reason this month JRiver has stopped playing any of my DSD (DSF/DFF) files. Well the files themselves do get played as JRiver's timer does go (00:00 etc) but instead of music I get a high pitch, annoying "shhhhsshhsh" noise all through the track's reproduction. Not only is it annoying I wonder whether it'll damage my speakers.

I read PSA's instructions as to how to set the dac up with JRiver (22 in my case), I haven't changed anything or done anything new -I think. And it cannot be any hardware related issues either as for example the FLAC (pcm) files are being played back zero issues and beautifully as ever. It's just the DSD's that are not being played back well so surely something in Settings has gone wrong for some reason? I'm checking setting by setting, box by box and can't seem to find where it got accidentally de-clicked or something.
Logged

bob

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 13874
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2018, 01:20:09 pm »

Apologies if this has been adressed before, But I am really zero computer literate (where is my Sinclair Spectrum at 48kb?) :) and can't seem to find what's happened or where the problem lies.
...
It's hard to know how you originally set it up but you can check in MC's DLNA server settings under Advanced and see if DoPE is set.
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3119
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 07:01:23 pm »

Is volume set to 100%?  In some cases, having it set to less than 100% can change the stream and produce white noise.
Logged

EfeTe

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2018, 08:06:06 am »

Thanks dtc. It was at 99 (to get the DAC's screen to show me more track info), set it to 100% and the issue disappeared at once wtf.
Logged

bob

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 13874
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2018, 09:55:35 am »

That's a new one for me.
Which volume control was set to 99%?
MC's internal??
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3119
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2018, 11:30:55 am »

Bob - Changing the volume of a PCM file does not change the underlying music. But with DSD, trying to change any part of the data fundamentally changes it. No changes should be made to a DSD file. With WASAPI there is an option to maximize volume, which means DSD is always passed through unchanged.  With ASIO there is no such option and people sometimes get caught with this white noise problem when MC tries to change the volume of a DSD file. Some ASIO drives are set to ignore any volume changes, but some are not.  There has been a request for a volume to implement the WASAPI option in the ASIO options.

The white noise is built into the  design of DoP.  To prevent potentially damaging speakers, the MSBs of each 24 bit block are set to produce a white noise if for any reason the DoP receiver does not recognize the DoP marker.  When changing the volume the data is changed and the receiver does not interpret it as DSD and therefore the white noise is heard. 

Basically, it seems that if you are bitstreaming DSD then no volume changes should be allowed, no matter what the nature of the driver.
Logged

bob

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 13874
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2018, 02:39:54 pm »

Bob - Changing the volume of a PCM file does not change the underlying music. But with DSD, trying to change any part of the data fundamentally changes it. No changes should be made to a DSD file. With WASAPI there is an option to maximize volume, which means DSD is always passed through unchanged.  With ASIO there is no such option and people sometimes get caught with this white noise problem when MC tries to change the volume of a DSD file. Some ASIO drives are set to ignore any volume changes, but some are not.  There has been a request for a volume to implement the WASAPI option in the ASIO options.

The white noise is built into the  design of DoP.  To prevent potentially damaging speakers, the MSBs of each 24 bit block are set to produce a white noise if for any reason the DoP receiver does not recognize the DoP marker.  When changing the volume the data is changed and the receiver does not interpret it as DSD and therefore the white noise is heard. 

Basically, it seems that if you are bitstreaming DSD then no volume changes should be allowed, no matter what the nature of the driver.
Thanks for the explanation, it make a lot of sense to me now.
Logged

RD James

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1871
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2018, 05:04:02 pm »

Thanks for the explanation, it make a lot of sense to me now.
To add to this:
On my system, if the volume is set to <100% in Windows before DSD playback is started via ASIO in Media Center, bitstreaming breaks.
WASAPI has a "maximize device volume during playback" option that prevents this from happening, but ASIO does not.
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3119
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2018, 05:29:57 pm »

Bitstreaming DSD should always send DSD (native or DoP) at 100%. This would be a nice change in MC.  The problem does not bite often, but when it does it is very hard for users to track down, as we see in this case.
Logged

EfeTe

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 05:52:51 am »

That's a new one for me.
Which volume control was set to 99%?
MC's internal??

No the PS Audio DSjr's own volume. The screen's layout varies a little bit when you're not at 100 (gives you extra track, format information etc).
Logged

Awesome Donkey

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 7810
  • Autumn shade...
Re: Issue with DSD files
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 05:59:06 am »

Bitstreaming DSD should always send DSD (native or DoP) at 100%. This would be a nice change in MC.

I have to agree with this. It makes perfect sense, IMO. There might be a few users whom complain about volume suddenly getting "loud" when playing DSD, but it's better than encountering the white noise and not hearing your music.
Logged
I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from "male enhancements" and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones
Pages: [1]   Go Up