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[Nevalti]

I have worked out how to 'Force audio out through HDMI or 3.5mm' but I can't figure out how to get it to play through a USB DAC.

My Benchmark DAC2 indicates that it is getting a signal BUT no sound is coming through. I also tried a Beresford Caiman II DAC and got exactly the same result.

Is this an IdPi audio-out selection issue or do I need a driver for the Benchmark DAC2? If I need to install a driver, I will need SIMPLE instructions!

[BradATIMA]

The Force audio out only applies when the output is either going out through HDMI or the 3.5mm analog jack. For a USB DAC, you want to configure the output in Media Center, so you'll either need to have the Id in GUI mode or connect to it remotely. In Media Center, go to Tools -> Options -> Audio. Then, you'll need to select the right device from the drop down list under Audio Device. There will likely be several items in the list, but the ones related to the DAC should be fairly obvious. You may need to try a few different items until you find the one that works best.

[astromo]

Assuming I've got the right unit, these specs:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-dac2-hgc-digital-to-analog-audio-converter
indicate that the DAC can be fed either a USB, coax or optical signal.

I don't understand why the HDMI or the analogue out jack from the NUC is relevant.

There's a wiki topic on this sort of thing. I'd recommend that to you to improve your understanding:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Id_Audio_Devices

If you're using toslink or RCA coax try the iec958 option in the alsamixer menu / audio output device from Options.

[Nevalti]

Thank you both. I have tried selecting each line listing the Benchmark DAC2 and the IdPi confirms that it is connected. The IdPi lists the tracks that I send to it and it displays the correct album art but there is still no sound. I now get a message saying:

Something went wrong with playback.

Details:
Playback could not be started on the output 'ALSA' using the format '44.1 kHz 2ch'

This output format may not be supported by your hardware. You can use DSP Studio to change the output to a compatible format.

Also, make sure that your system has a valid sound playback device and that it properly configured in playback options.

?

To double-check my system, I removed the USB lead from the IdPi and plugged it directly into my lap-top. It played the same tracks perfectly, they are simply CD rips to FLAC that I have used for years. There are therefore no problems with the DAC or the rest of the hifi.

I have re-set the IdPi to default settings to try to rule out any errors by me.

I have now lost HDMI sound and headphone socket sound as well (they were OK to start with) .

By the way, I don't know what 'ALSA' is. Is that a clue to the problem?

[astromo]

ALSA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture
http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page
... is the Linux standard sound management platform. The text menu option #14 takes you to the Alsa mixer, as per:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Id_Install_Guide#Options
Possibly, something has gone awry there.

I would expect that the audio device you've selected is simply a non-option, which is why you're getting that message. If you work methodically through each output device on offer and get a dud result, then I'm personally at a loss.

Resetting to defaults when you're stuck sounds sensible to me. I would have suggested testing the IdPi by running USB to your DAC. The Id has a lot of options locked down that would otherwise be on offer by design, so an intimate understanding of Linux is not required. On that basis, it doesn't make obvious sense why the other audio paths have failed for you after you've done a reset.

This is a matter for some one with better understanding than someone with my set of clumsy capabilities. One for the devs. Sorry, I'd offer more help if I could but my experience of the Id on a NUC style device is that you shouldn't be having issues, as long as the DAC you've got is Linux compliant (and that generally goes without saying (especially so, if they're posted as working with a Mac) but you might have an oddball unit ... dunno?).

All the best ... 

[Nevalti]

Thanks astromo. The Benchmark DAC2 is probably the most popular studio DAC ever and it is certainly compatible with Linux. Here is a quote from the Computer Audiophile forum.

"I've been using Benchmark DAC2 for over 2 years on Linux............

All it takes is for alsa to recognise it (and it did by default). However after fresh linux installation open command line prompt type alsamixer and un-mute DAC2 (if it says MM under the bar make it 00)...........

The IdPi certainly recognises the Benchmark DAC. For example, if I change the operating mode of the Benchmark DAC, the IdPi picks that up immediately and offers different choices to select from in 'Tools/Options/Audio device'. Also, when trying to play via USB the IdPi shows the correct album track and the correct album art but does not play it. The DAC indicates that it IS getting a USB signal from the IdPi ? They are obviously communicating properly, the problem is in a setting somewhere.

Perhaps the IdPi is somehow set to mute when connected to the DAC2. Just as a reminder, the IdPi works fine on HDMI and/or on the headphone socket. If it is set to mute, that simply must be a known issue and there MUST be a way for me to un-mute it.

You mention 'the devs' - presumably you mean developers? How on earth does one contact the developers?

Thanks again for your help.

[Awesome Donkey]

As a general tip, under Audio Device make sure you're using an hw: or front: (non-dev) output for your DAC (as these are direct access). Having a screenshot of the Audio Device list may help.

[JimH]

Did you try what the error message suggests?

This output format may not be supported by your hardware. You can use DSP Studio to change the output to a compatible format.

[Nevalti]

Thanks again gentlemen, your combined advice helped me one step forward but I have now gone two steps back. One of the 'hw' options worked when I changed from '4 track' to '2 track' in DSP studio.

Used in isolation, the IdPi will now play directly to the Benchmark DAC ......... BUT .....the DAC now immediately moves it's motorised volume control up to about 75% and stays there. If I move the volume control either way, it goes straight back to 75%. OK, it's possible that MAY not be an IdPi problem so let me move on to the more irritating problem.

Now that it (sort-of) works as a stand-alone player, the IdPi no longer shows up as a DLNA renderer - so I can't stream anything to it. I cannot even get it to receive and display album art any more - which it did fine yesterday.

I can 'explore' the IdPi with Explorer, I can see and manipulate the media that I put there in order to test it and my router tells me that it has made a 65 Mbps connection with the IdPi. The IdPi is therefore able to communicate over my network but it has stopped showing up as a renderer. If I try sending anything from MediaMonkey, I now get an error message saying: "The IdPi is turned off or is inaccessible" but it is not turned off because it continues to work and it is not "inaccessible" because I can examine the contents via Explorer. It simply does not show up as an option when I try to 'cast' from Explorer - but my other three renderers do.

Any idea why it is no longer working as a renderer? I am not aware of changing anything other than the DAC settings to get it to work with the Benchmark DAC2. Is there anything I may have altered accidentally that stops it working?

[JimH]

... I can examine the contents via Explorer. It simply does not show up as an option when I try to 'cast' from Explorer - but my other three renderers do.

What do you mean by "cast from Explorer"?  The Id, as a renderer, requires a DLNA Server.  Explorer isn't one.

Try playing to it from MC on another machine.

[Nevalti]

What do you mean by "cast from Explorer"?  The Id, as a renderer, requires a DLNA Server.  Explorer isn't one.

Any DLNA renderer should work from any DLNA server - thats the whole idea. MediaMonkey AND Windows Media Player AND Windows Explorer, MC etc, etc should all work. I assure you that the IdPi DID work from Windows Explorer and from MediaMonkey before I managed to get it working, stand-alone, with my DAC - with your help. Thanks again for that.

Perhaps Windows Explorer actually uses Windows Media Player, I don't know, but the 'casting' process is the same from either. You select the music you want, RH click on the file, folder, album etc and select 'Cast to'. A option list then pops up showing the available renderers (I have 5). Up until yesterday, after a pause of about 5 seconds, the IdPi showed up as a renderer option using this 'Cast to' system. It also showed up as a DLNA renderer in MediaMonkey - which is pretty similar to MC.

Now that I have the IdPi working, stand-alone, with the DAC, it no longer appears in ANY list as a renderer and I cannot therefore send music to it. The fact that it is no longer available in the list of renderers may not be related to the DAC selection process, but it did disappear at exactly the same time.

The IdPi is connected to my network and it is communicating perfectly with Windows Explorer - apart from not working as a renderer. The reported connection speed of 65Mbps is more than enough.

I am sure that the IdPi should work with Explorer and with MediaMonkey and I would remind you that it WAS working with them.

All my other renderers still work with Explorer and with MediaMonkey in this manner and always have. The only reasons I am persisting with the IdPi is that is a very cheap way to get good sound quality. I have heard it playing through my main system and I was very pleased with it. I just need to get it to work again.

My plan is to use MediaMonkey for playing music at my desk on a decent desk-top system but to use MC for streaming elsewhere including my main (very good) hifi system. The reason for this is that I should then get the best possible quality at the main system and perfectly adequate quality at the desk-top without having to chop and change settings all the time. I will therefore be buying a Windows copy of MC if and when I get the IdPi working as a renderer.

[JimH]

Normally, cast refers to Chromecast, which won't work with the Id.

I don't believe there is any way to use Explorer as a DLNA server.  You need to have a DLNA / UPnP server running on Windows for the Id to play from it.

You could download MC and use it as a DLNA server during the trial period.

[DJLegba]

Perhaps Windows Explorer actually uses Windows Media Player, I don't know, but the 'casting' process is the same from either. You select the music you want, RH click on the file, folder, album etc and select 'Cast to'. A option list then pops up showing the available renderers (I have 5). Up until yesterday, after a pause of about 5 seconds, the IdPi showed up as a renderer option using this 'Cast to' system.

I learned something here, but "casting" works exactly as the OP says, and has nothing to do with Chromecast. On my Windows 10 machine I see my MC server in Windows Explorer. I can navigate to an album, right-click, select Cast To, and I get a list with the MC server and my Naim Mu-so. Works fine, although it does appear to use Windows Media Player.

Under Media Network do you have all of DLNA Server, DLNA Renderer, and DLNA Controller checked? I do, and I can "cast" from my Windows 10 computer back to the MC machine and out through the DAC. I'm using MC 23.104 (64-bit) on a Windows machine, so I can't say anything about the Id.

[Nevalti]

I learned something here, but "casting" works exactly as the OP says....... it does appear to use Windows Media Player.

.....Under Media Network do you have all of DLNA Server, DLNA Renderer, and DLNA Controller checked? .........

Wonderful Thank you very much DJLegba. I did go there to get the code for JRemote so presumably I accidentally un-ticked the box. It is now working from Windows Explorer/WMP just as it should There is a slightly delayed start, which I presume is the Idpi MC loading the file ready to play without buffering. I have a few minor issues to sort out but at least it works. I will now buy a Windows copy of MC which I expect will make the remaining issues go away.

Thanks also for confirming that 'casting' does indeed work, as I described. It works with all of my renderers. The DLNA server ability ('casting') from WMP & Explorer is never given much publicity by Microsoft, perhaps because it is far from perfect.

It is interesting that we all have bits of knowledge but none of us seem to know everything. That does make the forum work but I would still like to be able to contact an all-knowing expert from JRiver to reduce the frustration that we all feel when things don't work as expected. To my mind, if everything is set to 'default', it should work out of the box.

My thanks again to the three of you who have helped

[bob]

One other comment on the volume control.
Devices aren't very consistent in using the same volume control on linux.
You can get at the AlsaMixer from the Id text menu to check the volume control settings for specific devices. Some have several, some have none.
The Id tries to set them all to 100% on boot and use the internal volume control on MC by default.
You might need to use internal volume in MC (click on the speaker to the left of the volume slider in MC to get the volume control options).

[Nevalti]

Thanks Bob. I didn't know about those hidden options. I'm still finding much of the MC software a challenge.  I am however delighted to find that the IdPi is as good as anything I have heard in my main system, it is great value for money and once I have mastered the software, I will probably fill the house with them. Much to my surprise, MC on my PC sounds better than MediaMonkey that I have used for years - so I am a happy convert in most ways.

Volume control concern: I have arrived at JRiverMC and the IdPi having found that Sonos sound quality was very clearly below the standard of a good CD player - even when using the same DAC for both. My concern with software volume control is that my experience with Sonos made it VERY clear that their software volume control degraded SQ. Is there any reason to think that ALSA and MC does not degrade SQ when controlling the volume? It strikes me that if you allow any software to alter the original digital signal, you simply cannot get a bit-perfect signal at the DAC.

For my desk-top MC system, I allow it a slight hall 'effect' to compensate for the small (Ruark MR1s) speakers, and it sounds very acceptable. For my main hifi system any 'effect' that I have tried simply spoils it. For that reason, I have been setting the IdPi on max volume and controlling the actual volume with my pre-amp (Benchmark DAC2). Am I worrying unnecessarily?

[bob]

I think in your case it makes more sense to use the DAC's volume control since it has one. Many do not. On the IdPi then in MC you can set the ALSA mixer to Max for that device (if it has one) and disable the volume control in MC.

[RD James]

Volume control concern: I have arrived at JRiverMC and the IdPi having found that Sonos sound quality was very clearly below the standard of a good CD player - even when using the same DAC for both. My concern with software volume control is that my experience with Sonos made it VERY clear that their software volume control degraded SQ. Is there any reason to think that ALSA and MC does not degrade SQ when controlling the volume? It strikes me that if you allow any software to alter the original digital signal, you simply cannot get a bit-perfect signal at the DAC.

For my desk-top MC system, I allow it a slight hall 'effect' to compensate for the small (Ruark MR1s) speakers, and it sounds very acceptable. For my main hifi system any 'effect' that I have tried simply spoils it. For that reason, I have been setting the IdPi on max volume and controlling the actual volume with my pre-amp (Benchmark DAC2). Am I worrying unnecessarily?

So long as you have TPDF dither activated in MC (if that's an option on the id Pi?) it's a non-issue and Media Center's internal volume control should not affect the audio quality.
It will lower the signal to noise ratio (SNR) by however much you reduce the volume, but that's just how digital volume control works and it should be negligible on a high-end DAC. The Benchmark DAC2's own volume control is digital too.