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[teodorom]

Hi
I must confess that, even after having read a lot on this subject in this Forum, I'm confused more than before !
First of all Kernel Streaming do not work on my computer (an old Compaq Presario Core 2 Duo, Windows 7 32 bits).
My DAC is an Audiolab 8200CD. MC is at 18.0.1.175.

• To be more precise, Kernel Streaming works when the recording is at 24/48.0 or 24/44.1, when 24/88.2 my DAC says "Error" quite often, when 24/96.0 MC starts but then, after 5 seconds it stops.
  I have disabled the networking, but with no success.
  
• I have installed the latest release of ASIO4All, but with it strange things happen.
  Why MC Audio Path says that the Output is 32 bits when the recording is 24 bits ?
  Why when the recording is at 24/44.1 the DAC displays 24/48.0 ?
  Why, when the recording (a CD ripped using EAC) is at 16/44.1 the DAC displays 16/48.0 ?
  Is ASIO4All doing some oversampling ? Sure that ASIO and Kernel Streaming are equivalent ?
  
• WASAPI and WASPI Event Style seem the only Output Modes that give consistent information

Thanks
Teodoro Marinucci

[mwillems]

Hi
I must confess that, even after having read a lot on this subject in this Forum, I'm confused more than before !
First of all Kernel Streaming do not work on my computer (an old Compaq Presario Core 2 Duo, Windows 7 32 bits).
My DAC is an Audiolab 8200CD. MC is at 18.0.1.175.

• To be more precise, Kernel Streaming works when the recording is at 24/48.0 or 24/44.1, when 24/88.2 my DAC says "Error" quite often, when 24/96.0 MC starts but then, after 5 seconds it stops.
  I have disabled the networking, but with no success.
  
• I have installed the latest release of ASIO4All, but with it strange things happen.
  Why MC Audio Path says that the Output is 32 bits when the recording is 24 bits ?
  Why when the recording is at 24/44.1 the DAC displays 24/48.0 ?
  Why, when the recording (a CD ripped using EAC) is at 16/44.1 the DAC displays 16/48.0 ?
  Is ASIO4All doing some oversampling ? Sure that ASIO and Kernel Streaming are equivalent ?
  
• WASAPI and WASPI Event Style seem the only Output Modes that give consistent information

Thanks
Teodoro Marinucci

WASAPI and WASAPI Event Style are the preferred output modes (unless you have a well-behaved native ASIO driver), and generally provide better performance than alternatives.  Kernel streaming or ASIO4All will not (generally) be an improvement in performance or sound quality over WASAPI, unless there is something about WASAPI that doesn't work the way you want (or some other reason that you don't want to use WASAPI)?  Or are you just trying to figure out what's going on with kernel streaming/ASIO4All?

Kernel streaming/ASIO4All may not support automatic sample rate switching on your DAC, so that may be what's behind your errors.  When you look at the settings for your audio device in windows control panel, what is the output sample rate set to?  Did you try changing this and seeing if the problem went away?  

[teodorom]

Kernel Streaming, when it works, is the best. Soundstage is deeper, and there is "more air" around instruments. It's a pity that it doesn't work all the times.
ASIO sometimes works better (as before), sometimes not (or it is unclear). I have not established a correlation among the sound and the "strange numbers".
I would be happy if I knew that those "strange numbers" are miscalculations artifacts with no effects on the sound.
Thanks again.

[Matt]

The official JRiver answer is here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes#Choosing_Audio_Quality_Output_Mode

We do not recommend Kernel Streaming (except on XP) or ASIO4All.

[kstuart]

"Why when the recording is at 24/44.1 the DAC displays 24/48.0 ?
Why, when the recording (a CD ripped using EAC) is at 16/44.1 the DAC displays 16/48.0 ?"

ASIO4ALL has a checkbox that says:

"Always resample 44.1khz <->48khz"

Your reports suggest it is checked.

"Sure that ASIO and Kernel Streaming are equivalent ?"

They are not "equivalent" - that is the sort of Internet Myth that comes from taking ten complicated technical sentences and boiling them down into one sweeping generalization.

mwillems wrote:
"Kernel streaming or ASIO4All will not (generally) be an improvement in performance or sound quality over WASAPI,"

It turns out that what works better in each system is quite variable.

The author of ASIO4ALL once wrote:

"ASIO4ALL sits on top of the same Kernel Streaming interface that WASAPI sits on top of and thus also completely bypasses WASAPI."

Whether or not that is better or worse depends on many other things that vary from system to system.

[teodorom]

"Always resample 44.1khz <->48khz"

No, sorry about that. The options are the default ones. Could it be a bug of the version (2.11 Beta1) I'm using ? It would be strange, because ASIO4All, in the notification area, tells me the correct sampling rate (e.g. in the form "ASIO4All v2 Media Center 18 - 2048 Samples @44100 Hz") .

"Kernel streaming or ASIO4All will not (generally) be an improvement in performance or sound quality over WASAPI"

When playing a FLAC I've got ripping a CD I'm quite sure that

• I'm unable to distinguish among Kernel Streaming and ASIO4All
• Kernel Streaming and ASIO4All are louder and more "3D" than WASAPI

Tomorrow I shall try to do some blind tests (if my wife wants to spend the time to do that), because I cannot exclude that these are mathematical and/or psychological artifacts.

[stewart_pk]

No, sorry about that. The options are the default ones. Could it be a bug of the version (2.11 Beta1) I'm using ? It would be strange, because ASIO4All, in the notification area, tells me the correct sampling rate (e.g. in the form "ASIO4All v2 Media Center 18 - 2048 Samples @44100 Hz") .When playing a FLAC I've got ripping a CD I'm quite sure that

• I'm unable to distinguish among Kernel Streaming and ASIO4All
• Kernel Streaming and ASIO4All are louder and more "3D" than WASAPI

Tomorrow I shall try to do some blind tests (if my wife wants to spend the time to do that), because I cannot exclude that these are mathematical and/or psychological artifacts.

Yes there's a bug in 2.11 Beta1. You should use 2.10 if you're going to use ASIO4ALL or use the 44Khz<--->48Khz switch in reverse.

All of the three Output Modes will have exactly the same volume if all are configured correctly.

[kstuart]

Stewart is right.  In 2.11Beta1, you should actually check the 44.1<->48 checkbox to get it to NOT do the conversion.

From the product's Forum:

R32nj
Guest
   
   Problem with 44/48 resample button in 2.11 Beta
« Thread Started on Feb 10, 2012, 8:24pm »   

It looks to me like the "Always Resamle 44.1khz to 49khz" button is behaving backwards in the V2.11 Beta release. With the button OFF my DAC is getting a 48K signal and with it ON I get 44.1K.
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Minuet
Guest
   
   Re: Problem with 44/48 resample button in 2.11 Bet
« Reply #1 on Feb 23, 2012, 3:01pm »   

I too have noticed that the action of this check box has a 'reversed role' it appears.
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Michael Tippach
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Joined: Dec 2004
Gender: Male
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Location: Leipzig/Augsburg (Germany)
   
   Re: Problem with 44/48 resample button in 2.11 Bet
« Reply #2 on Feb 27, 2012, 3:42pm »   

Confirmed!

Will be fixed in the next release.

[teodorom]

Thank you !
So, it was a bug (and I have to admit that I was tempted to do that check, but it was too late and I feared I could disturb someone with my tests).
So, I'm not deaf !
I'm now convinced that ASIO4All doesn't introduce unwanted "mathematical" artifacts, and that when I hear more "3D" it's not because of a psychological artifact (the "louder" sound could be, on the contrary, a psychological consequence of the "3D").
So, please listen !
Mathematics and Physics are important in HiFi (I guess so because I'm a Theoretical Physicist), but this discussion reminds me "cables".
As the Physics is concerned cables (apart the trivial ones) should "sound" all identical, differences in parameters being so small that they should be non audible.
On the contrary differences are audible. Not so much to convince me to buy cables costing > 1000$. My cables are low priced , but when I switch I hear the difference

[HiFiTubes]

Hi

I'm also curious why WASAPI is limited to 24bit? ASIO allows full 32float or integer but WASAPI does not? Cannot?

[klapaciuss]

Kernel Streaming, when it works, is the best. Soundstage is deeper, and there is "more air" around instruments. It's a pity that it doesn't work all the times.
ASIO sometimes works better (as before), sometimes not (or it is unclear). I have not established a correlation among the sound and the "strange numbers".
I would be happy if I knew that those "strange numbers" are miscalculations artifacts with no effects on the sound.
Thanks again.

I agree. When compatibility is not issue KS provides the best sound. KS is better than ASIO. ASIO is better than WASAPI (regarding sound quality).

[imeric]

• WASAPI and WASPI Event Style seem the only Output Modes that give consistent information

Is Wasapi set to exclusive mode?
Is bitdepth set to automatic?
Did you play with the buffer size?
Also make sure only the sample rates supported by your DAC are set in DSP Studio -> Output format

I find it really strange that ASIO4All or KS would be better on a Win7 machine...

If volume is affected something is odd with your Wasapi setting....
The a/b with the wife is a great idea.  That's what I did to compare foobar and MC...

I agree. When compatibility is not issue KS provides the best sound. KS is better than ASIO. ASIO is better than WASAPI (regarding sound quality).

That is some big statement...This is like an interconnect debate Why would that be?

I totally agree with mwillens' post... I have 2 DACs with native ASIO so obviously that's what I use with them but on other DACs I own, WASAPI was always the most reliable and best sounding option...

[teodorom]

After 5 years, and with Windows 10, did anything change?
Thanks

[JimH]

Same answer.

The official JRiver answer is here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes#Choosing_Audio_Quality_Output_Mode

We do not recommend Kernel Streaming (except on XP) or ASIO4All.