Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[loddie]

About a year ago, I had the Black Magic Intensity Pro 4K working, but abandoned it. Unfortunately I didn't document the settings well, and am now unable to replicate earlier success. There is an older thread that vaguely discusses settings, but includes several capture cards https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92243.0.  Thus, here is a thread to specifically document setup of the BM 4K PCI card.

OS: Windows 10
Intensity Pro 4K Driver: 10.11.1
Video settings: for USA

1. Install card and Blackmagic software. Make sure HDMI input cable is in correct port. Make sure HDMI signal is not encrypted.

2. Configure capture card settings in Blackmagic Desktop Video Setup software:

-Video In: HDMI 1080p59.94
-Output Format: 1080p59.94
-All other settings: default

Save and Close.

3. Verify capture card is working. Open Blackmagic Media Express. Select the "Log and Capture" tab. You should be able to see the live HMDI feed. If not, resolve before trying to configure JRiver MC. Close Media Express.

4. Open JRiver MC. Configure television channel for viewing HDMI capture.

-In the top left of the home screen, select the "Television" tab. After selected, notice the option to "Double-click to run television setup." Double-click window.
-Enter your Postal Code. Select "Next".
-Select "Capture only (no channel guide)." Select "Next".
-Select "Camera"
-Select "Blackmagic WDM Capture ....(analog)". Select "Next".
-Ignore "Service type..." window and select "Next".
-Select "Scan". It will find "Camera". After you exit the setup, you should see "Camera" listed under "Channel" in the Television main window.

5. Configure Blackmagic WDM Capture settings.

-Right-click on "Television", select "Manage Devices". "Black magic WDM Capture...(analog)" should be listed at the top. Select "Configure".

[loddie]

Ok, I think everything is correct up to this point.  What I'm not sure of is the "Configure Device" settings:

Which "Tuner Type"?
Should "VideoClock" be checked or not?
Should "Audio" be checked or not?

Under "Advanced">"Video Capturee Filter...">"Video"

Should "Override Video Mode" be checked? If so, which "Display Mode" setting and which "Pixel Format" setting?

When I exit out and select "Camera", I just get a black screen.  In Media Express, I can see the live HDMI feed.

Also, can Media Express and JR Media Center be open at the same time?  I would think not.

Any help setting up is appreciated.

[Yaobing]

Which "Tuner Type"?

Since this is a video capture device without a tuner, you can select either "analog cable" or "analog antenna".

Should "VideoClock" be checked or not?

Experiment with it.  It affects playing video in non-time-shifting mode.

Should "Audio" be checked or not?

No.  The checkbox is only for very old TV tuners that requires a cable to route audio to sound card.

Under "Advanced">"Video Capturee Filter...">"Video"

Should "Override Video Mode" be checked? If so, which "Display Mode" setting and which "Pixel Format" setting?

When I exit out and select "Camera", I just get a black screen.  In Media Express, I can see the live HDMI feed.

You have to experiment with these settings.

Also, can Media Express and JR Media Center be open at the same time?  I would think not.

No.  The two applications would try to access the same tuner and would cause crashes.

[mattkhan]

did you get a chance to verify if it provides multichannel audio?

[loddie]

did you get a chance to verify if it provides multichannel audio?

No, I abandoned it before testing audio. 

[loddie]

No success. I tried every possible setting (except European frame rates) in Configure Device.  I thought I had achieved success about a year ago, but perhaps I actually didn't.

FWIW, the HDMI source is an Apple TV 4 and is outputting 1080p HD - 60Hz YCbCr 4:4:4.  However, I suppose this probably doesn't matter - if Media Express can see the live HDMI, shouldn't JRiver also, regardless of the source (Apple TV) settings?

If anyone has had success with the Intensity Pro 4K card, please share your settings.

[muzicman0]

Apple TV uses HDCP, at least I think it does.  Perhaps Media Express allows for HDCP in the software.  I know some h.264 encoders will only handle HDCP if you use their decoders.  It might be something similar.

[loddie]

Hi Musician, great observation!   At first I did think you comment would matter, but realizing it would only take a couple minutes to test, I decided to try it.

I have two splitters. It turns out I was using the one lacking HDCP passthrough. But first, I removed the splitter and ran just a straight HDMI cable from the AppleTV4 to the BM Intensity Pro.  Sure enough, I can see the signal in Media Express!  AppleTV does require HDCP, so Media Express doesn't and JRiver does. 

So that means the splitter is the problem - it is not stripping HDCP.  So I plugged in my other splitter, the one that is supposed to have HDCP passthrough and tried both its outputs in JRiver...nothing but black screen. Found the reviews for the second splitter and the reviews claim HDCP passthrough doesn't actually work. 

So I just ordered another splitter and carefully read the reviews this time. Once it arrives, I give this another try.

[muzicman0]

Another thing to note on Black Magic, is at least in the older models, the frame rate of the input has to match the frame rate of the device being capture.  IE: 59.94 is not the same as 60!  Assuming you are seeing it in the Black Magic software, I assume it is set up correctly though.  Just figured it was worth mentioning.

One thing you could try to confirm it is the splitter is to try hooking up a Windows PC that doesn't require HDCP, and see if it works.

[loddie]

True.  In Black Magic's "Desktop Video Setup", the software used to configure the Intensity, you cannot select the input framerate, only the output framerate. On the input side, you can only select the source, in this case HDMI.  So software must auto-detect the input framerate from the AppleTV4.

[loddie]

Update. The replacement splitter arrived, but was dead on arrival. So I ordered a different splitter. This one seems to be working, but I don't have a way to verify if it is actually stripping protection (it supposed to).  I can see the HDMI video input signal in Blackmagic's Media Express. So the signal is good that far. However, nothing in JRiver.  When it starts to capture, it states "Live" but the timer stays on 0:00 and doesn't count the way it does with "Open Live" for audio input.

Also, what is odd is when I go to Television>Manage Devices>select "Blackmagic...">Configure>Advanced, there used to be several video rate options.  They aren't available now, just "Audio Capture Pin...". I've reset the TV settings several times and even reinstalled MC, but I can no longer access the "Video Capture Filter".

[Yaobing]

While you try to play inside MC using the device, right click on the screen and choose "DirectShow Filters".  What do you see?

[loddie]

Sorry for the late response as I've been traveling.

Here is what I see. If I try to select "Select Filters...", nothing happens.

[Yaobing]

The "Blackmagic WDM Capture" filter name is grayed out.  That means the filter does not expose any interfaces to allow it be configured.

In the TV Setup Wiki, section "Capture Hardware" there is some discussion on this matter (under the subheading "Tuner type", around the second screenshot in the section).

[loddie]

Hi Yaobing,

Thank-you! That is helpful up to a point. I had set the correct settings in JRiver.  However, I'm stumped by the last sentence in the WIKI Tuner Type section:

You can set it up in MC as a "camera" device, but you need to run its own configuration program to set its input line correctly before you actually use the device.

Has this successfully been done?  If so, is it documented anywhere? How do I "set its input line correctly"?.  I'm guessing it is referring to the configuration in the Blackmagic Desktop Video Setup software.  If so, that seems a dead end as the Video Input section of that software has no adjustable settings for HDMI and the only other input options are analog.

[Yaobing]

Has this successfully been done?  If so, is it documented anywhere? How do I "set its input line correctly"?.  I'm guessing it is referring to the configuration in the Blackmagic Desktop Video Setup software.  If so, that seems a dead end as the Video Input section of that software has no adjustable settings for HDMI and the only other input options are analog.

Last time I had the device on my computer, I did it.  However, I did not try HDMI input at the time.  The device comes with its own application.  As I do not have the device installed, I can not tell you exactly how it was done.  The configuration program that came with the device allows you to select which input to capture from.

[Yaobing]

I did a Google search and found the following YouTube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1t2elo55mM

In this video (around 3:30 mark) it says to open up the "Blackmagic Design Control Panel", where you can set output and input.

In your first post in the thread, you mentioned selecting correct input and output settings in Blackmagic configuration, so I thought you have already done it.  Besides, you said Media Express worked.  It is puzzling why it would not work in MC.  It may be caused by output format you selected in Blackmagic configuration.  Try experimenting with different output settings.

[muzicman0]

I also know that the 4k version of this card is not directshow compatible, if that matters.  When my company wanted to validate that it would work with our software, the engineers from Black Magic wanted us to use their API, which we were not willing to do, so it went on the incompatible list.

[loddie]

I also know that the 4k version of this card is not directshow compatible, if that matters.  When my company wanted to validate that it would work with our software, the engineers from Black Magic wanted us to use their API, which we were not willing to do, so it went on the incompatible list.

Are you sure that is still the case with updated drivers/software?  Here is a quote from the spec page claiming DirectShow is supported: "Intensity Pro 4K supports QuickTime on Mac, and WDM and DirectShow on Windows so you can capture high quality video straight into other audio or video applications so is compatible with virtually all software on Mac and Windows!"

[loddie]

"Blackmagic Design Control Panel", where you can set output and input.

Yes, the card control software is now called Blackmagic Desktop Video Setup.  It differs from the much older software in the YouTube video as you cannot select input settings for HDMI, you can only select HDMI as an input. I think it auto-detects the HDMI input signal so there isn't a need to change input settings.  The AppleTV4 is advertised as 1080p60, but you can see in the software it is detecting 1080p59.94.

I'll experiment with the output settings. By "output", I'm assuming Blackmagic is referring to the actual HDMI hardware output  settings on the card, not the "output" JRiver should see from the HDMI input.

[loddie]

Blackmagic just released a new driver/Desktop Video Software since I started playing with this a few weeks ago. So after installing, this problem I reported went away:

Also, what is odd is when I go to Television>Manage Devices>select "Blackmagic...">Configure>Advanced, there used to be several video rate options.  They aren't available now, just "Audio Capture Pin...". I've reset the TV settings several times and even reinstalled MC, but I can no longer access the "Video Capture Filter".

Now, when I right click, the "Blackmagic WDM Capture" filter name is no longer grayed out.  Subsequently, I can once again access the Properties>Video Format settings.

[loddie]

Yaobing, from the other thread, I noticed you recommend installing several files:

Please give these DLLs a try:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cmx24miyoqaa14d/TVDLLs.zip?dl=0

Download, unzip, and copy JRTelevision.dll into MC installation folder, and copy the other file into its "TV" subfolder.

Both non-time-shifting and time-shifting works on my computer.

That Dropbox link is now dead. Is it safe to assume those are part of the current MC release or should I install the DLLs (would need a link to them)?

[loddie]

Now, the "Properties" can be edited again, I tried all the settings for 1080p60, 1080p59.94, 1080p30, 1080p29.97, and Auto, selecting each pixel format for each display mode (8 bit YUV, 10 bit YUV, 8 bit BRGA, 10 bit RGB).  Also tried unchecking "Override Video Mode". 

Since none of those 20 settings worked, I repeated all of them with "Disable VideoClock when not.." checked. Still no luck. 

I don't think user error is coming into play as I select "Apply", OK, OK, OK, and wait until after "camera" disappears from the live feed after each filter change. In other words, I'm not just changing the filter properties selects while the feed is live.  Also, I had already tried all these combinations before I lost access to the filter "Properties".  I also closed MC before and after all the changes to confirm there is a live signal which I can see in Blackmagic Media Express "Log and Capture". Note, Media Express was closed after checking as two programs cannot access the video card at the same time.

I didn't try the 25, 50 frame rate settings as I'm in USA.

[Yaobing]

Yaobing, from the other thread, I noticed you recommend installing several files:

That Dropbox link is now dead. Is it safe to assume those are part of the current MC release or should I install the DLLs (would need a link to them)?

They are definitely not needed now.  Those DLLs were test builds made by me for fixing certain issues.  Once we verified that the issues were fixed, we merged the fixes into the main program.

[loddie]

OK, that eliminates another variable.

To try rule out variables, I just downloaded and installed OBS. Within one minute of installing, I have a live stream. No luck after about 6 hours of trying settings in MC.  This leads me to think the problem is within MC (either settings or something else).

[muzicman0]

Are you sure that is still the case with updated drivers/software?  Here is a quote from the spec page claiming DirectShow is supported: "Intensity Pro 4K supports QuickTime on Mac, and WDM and DirectShow on Windows so you can capture high quality video straight into other audio or video applications so is compatible with virtually all software on Mac and Windows!"

No, not sure, they may have updated drivers.  Our testing was a few years ago.

[loddie]

So OBS is freeware. Just make sure that is was just one other program, I downloaded and installed the trial version of vMix21. At first, it did not work, but after just a few minutes of reading this help page specific to Blackmagic capture cards, it worked:   https://www.vmix.com/knowledgebase/article.aspx/35/why-do-i-see-a-blank-screen-or-error-when-using-a-blackmagic-card

I had already been follow these steps when trying to work with MC.  However, the last step for getting Blackmagic and vMix to work is interesting:

"If after following these steps, the video is working in Media Express but is blank in vMix, try selecting RGB32 from the Video Format
dropdown box when adding the input via Add Input -> Camera. This option might be needed where a computer HDMI output is being captured, or for some specialized security and sports cameras."

I was able to get vMix to show the HDMI stream until I selected RGB32 as instructed above. Then it worked!

Perhaps this may be a clue to why MC isn't working with Blackmagic. I wonder if RGB32 is different than the 10 bit RGB option in MC. I have already tried 10 bit RGB for the North America resolutions in the Video Capture Filter>Properties>Video Format box.

[loddie]

Here it's working in Resolume. This was even easier as I didn't have to configure any settings - as soon as I selected the Blackmagic card it started streaming.  I have no idea what the software programs are for.  I just googled the card and "black screen" and downloaded them to see if I could learn anything else about configuring.

[loddie]

Found this on the Blackmagic support forum:

Our official status is below
Blackmagic Design's general recommendation for professional applications is to use the DeckLink C++ API directly for application development.

DirectShow and WDM filters are available, however they provide a subset of the functionality available via the DeckLink API. It should also be noted that the older user-space DirectShow filters are deprecated in favour of the WDM capture filters. You should not expect support nor enhancements / feature development for DirectShow functionality.

Does this shed light on the problem? 

[mattkhan]

fwiw I haven't had any luck with jriver and my hdmi capture card either (a magewell usb device) but have found using the WDM driver in combination with another video player app that does work with my card to be a perfectly useable combination. However it is a combination that requires some scripting to get remote volume control working properly (due to the way jriver does not mark the zone as active when wdm starts playing). In my case, the video player is mpc-be (as it also supports madvr) but I don't think that really matters as any external player that works for your kit would require the same treatment. I can provide details if you want to go down that route.

[loddie]

Hi Matt, Perhaps that will be a good solution. My situation is a little unique as all I am looking for is the ability to delay video to accommodate audio filter processing delay - so I actually don't need sound (that will be on a different computer). To keep it simple and be sure the processors can handle many channels, I just want to run high latency filters all the time. It doesn't matter if the video delay is PC or Mac as I have hardware and MC license for both. Which leads to a few questions before pursuing the MPC-BE you kindly offered:

1. Does MC Mac version now support video delay (it didn't in the past)? I could try setting that up.
2. Does MPC-BE support adjustable video delay?

Right now I only care about 1080p60 or less resolution, but the reason I bought the BM Intensity Pro 4K is to upgrade to 4K resolution once my projector dies.

[mattkhan]

We might be talking about different things but jriver does not support video delay (though mpc-be does) so this would appear to be a problem for you. What do you mean by video delay exactly? Any input support is windows only on MC too.

[loddie]

I mean delaying the video so there is time for audio to pass through filters.  Can't this be adjusted in MC24>Tool>Options>Video>Advanced>A/V sync correction milliseconds (50, 60, 120 Hz display): 0 ? It is editable from 2500 ms to -2500 ms (I'm not sure if positive or negative values delay video), but it seems this should be buffer the video frames for up to 2.5 seconds.

[mattkhan]

IME that option is ignored with live tv playback - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=112495.0

Using timeshifting instead is not a substitute (and doesn't work for me either as MC does not behave sensibly with my card when timeshifting)

[loddie]

 Hmmm, that's not good news.  Thank-you for sharing the thread link...It seems you were able to use video delay with 3 other players though (vlc, potplayer, mpc-be).

[mattkhan]

Yes generally it is ok, i need about 150ms and it often feels like it is on the edge of stability so I would not be confident about using such a setup with long filters. Only one way to find out though

[Len_Lekx]

No.  The checkbox is only for very old TV tuners that requires a cable to route audio to sound card.

Can it be used anyway?  One of my capture cards (the AverMedia C027 HD card) only has left/right audio inputs.  My Colossus 2 card has an SPDIF input for digital audio, and I would like to capture digital audio from both my input sources.  If I get an audio card with an optical digital-audio input, can I check that box and use it?

[Yaobing]

Can it be used anyway?  One of my capture cards (the AverMedia C027 HD card) only has left/right audio inputs.  My Colossus 2 card has an SPDIF input for digital audio, and I would like to capture digital audio from both my input sources.  If I get an audio card with an optical digital-audio input, can I check that box and use it?

I don't know if this will work, but you can try it.  The option is for older TV cards that require a cable for sound routing.  If you want to capture audio from a source that can be routed to the sound card by cable, it might work (no guarantee).

[loddie]

Yes generally it is ok, i need about 150ms and it often feels like it is on the edge of stability so I would not be confident about using such a setup with long filters. Only one way to find out though

Are you also capturing video, delaying, and outputting or are using just using JRiver/other players as the source (no capture)?

When I first considered JRiver, I don't think there was support for Netflix and Amazon Prime. I use those and Channels (OTA TV) on the AppleTV4.  I realized that I can now use JRiver as the source for Netflix and Prime and then could probably use JRiver's video delay feature. 

IME that option is ignored with live tv playback - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=112495.0

It seems I would still need a video delay solution for live TV.  In AcourateConvolver, I can have three sets of filters per channel, so I could use minimum phase filters for live TV. Is there a way to run a script from JRiver to automatically change the filter sets in AcourateConvolver when the source in JRiver is changed?  Trying to make everything friendly to use for wife, family, visitors.

[mattkhan]

I only use jriver for live audio playback as my hdmi device doesn't work in MC (unfixable audio lag due to lack of video delay with live playback & it goes crazy if I attempt to timeshift where crazy means it pauses ok but then resumes by replaying the entire cached stream as fast as it possibly can then freezing permanently).

For sources, I have

- a cable box (virgin tivo) coming in via hdmi into MPC-BE
- netflix windows app (I don't believe MC can host netflix these days, except in a browser perhaps?, and IIRC you need the windows app for multichannel audio anyway so I don't try to use netflix within mc)
- assorted browser based streams (iplayer and amazon prime mainly)

I wrote my own remote to tie this together so that it behaves a bit like a prepro would when you change sources - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=114198.0

Main reason was to provide a consistent and controlled experience when switching between sources while making sure remote control of jriver volume still works when using wdm. This is basically usable by family with a bit of training.

This is the same basic use case as yours I think, i.e. jriver does not (AFAIK) provide hooks like that (on <event> do <some random thing>) but it does have a decent http based api which you can use instead. However this does mean you have to add it into your existing remote scripting as opposed to just using MC out of the box (which is OK if you're already using a remote in this fashion, more work if you're not).

[loddie]

Thanks for sharing!  It seems your setup is very similar to what I'm trying to accomplish.  FWIW, I submitted request to add video delay option to live feed. Yes, I must have been reading old threads as it seems Netflix no longer shares it API.

I was hoping to keep the system simple: If you want to watch video, use AppleTV (Netflix, Amazon Prime, OTA TV, etc.) via AppleTV remote (nice hardware remote); If you want to listen to audio, use JRiver via iPad.

If I can find a way to delay video, I could just keep the same audio filters running and anyone could easily manage video or audio. I didn't think video delay would be this difficult to implement as I'm willing to do it on PC or Mac. Will keep looking for alternative solutions.

That's a very nice remote solution!  I like clean interfaces.

[Yaobing]

If I can find a way to delay video, I could just keep the same audio filters running and anyone could easily manage video or audio. I didn't think video delay would be this difficult to implement as I'm willing to do it on PC or Mac. Will keep looking for alternative solutions.

Isn't VideoClock working if you run video capture in time-shifting mode?