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[Vocalpoint]

Anyway, I don't have the solution. I don't want to do all maintenance on my HTPC. I would like to be able to do it on my Workstation. But that isn't an easy fix.

I was so frustrated with the current client/server solution that I fixed it permanently several years back by simply pointing my own workstation (with it's own library) at the same source media location as the Media Server hits - and I do all library/maintenance work on my machine. I let the Server pick up the changes whenever it does it's scan.

All other MC instances are simply that - clients. Works like a charm.

VP

[RoderickGI]

I must admit VP, I have considered doing this.

But there are still traps for young players with Cover Art, Thumbnails, caching, settings, Custom Resources, etc. etc. If a user understands the implementation, it can work. If not, strange things can happen, and often the user will blame MC, rather than the configuration of their environment.

[cncb]

That approach won't work for Playlists and in my experience for videos (doesn't pick up changes in sidecar files).

[Vocalpoint]

That approach won't work for Playlists and in my experience for videos (doesn't pick up changes in sidecar files).

True dat. Playlists definitely need some better sharing ability. This layout is strictly for audio here.

For our videos - I update those right on the HTPC.

VP

[RoderickGI]

That approach won't work for Playlists and in my experience for videos (doesn't pick up changes in sidecar files).

Certainly not for Playlists. You would need to export and import those.

But MC should find a Sidecar file for a video on first import into a new Library, and use the metadata in the file. I haven't tested that, but Glynor documented it several times. Something I would check if I ever thought about changing my configuration.

[tij]

Ultimately it comes down to the age old problem. If you want something super simple that "just works", then you give up a lot of advanced functionality and customization, because those often stand in direct conflict.

THIS is so true …  not sure about Sonos as I don't have one … but Plex clients do not allow any tag editing or server maintenance, that's why it "just work" (they do maintenance and tagging via web interface … in case you were wondering … and I am not sure if they allow multiple users to edit server at same time since I am the only one updating it … but if I have to guess, probably no concurrent editing)

Ability to edit library/database/DB from clients is very complex issue due to consistency issue.

Even if only one user is allowed to edit DB at any one given time (from client or server machine) there are multiple issues that needs to be taken into account. Few that come to my mind (pretty sure there are more):

* what to do when updated/updating items is beeing accessed? ... deny access or deny editing item or allow both? ... if allow both, once editing is done push changes to accessing client (ie search results or playlists) or let accessing client use old search result/playlists?
* confirmation from server that the changes has been updated to DB, so user is sure changes are updated
* possibly logging changes for traceability

Multiple editing clients are stuff of nightmare ... but probably what most ppl will want in regards to playlist and photo tagging ... Digital Asset Management (DAM) handles tagging for big businesses and cost fortune ... that probably indicates level of complexity of these stuff

i was looking for this a year ago, cheapest i could find was Daminion ... they offered me 3 full licence for around 1000USD ... and home edition 2 licence (admin licence without ability to set access level) for 400USD ... first option was out of my budget, second option did not give enough flexibility for my usage scenario

Personally i would be happy if only one user is allowed to edit server at any given time ... rest of users are read only (selected playlist from server are loaded as play now playlist so changes do not propagate to server)

PS. a thin client with no editing capability would be interesting (or an option on MC that disables all editing stuff and thus put MC into "thin" client mode)

PSS. i do not understand problem with ripping on clients that other has stated ... dont you just point ripping destination to where server looks for media and let server pick up changes? ... personally i rip to local destination first, check the rip, only then transfer rip to NAS (as transfer to NAS is expensive operation ... so want to make sure rip is good before committing to transfer to NAS)

[cncb]

But MC should find a Sidecar file for a video on first import into a new Library, and use the metadata in the file.

Yeah, I was referring to any changes in the sidecar file would not be picked up by other MC instances that were "watching" that video in Autoimport.

[RoderickGI]

Yeah, I was referring to any changes in the sidecar file would not be picked up by other MC instances that were "watching" that video in Autoimport.

Ah yes. MC would only be looking for changes, or file events, for the video file itself. Maybe if the video file was "touched" so that its Date Modified was changed, MC would pick up changes in the Sidecar file. But that would be a separate process, so not much use.

[Negasonic]

Having 'View Extras' work on an MC client would really really bump up the value of a client/server setup for me.

As a first time client/server user I never even considered that 'View Extras' would not work, so it took a pretty big chunk out of the enjoyment after I found out.

I use it exclusively for images (scans of booklets) that are put in folders named "covers", but if it would make implementing it easier by the user having all images right next to the music files, I'd gladly re-arrange them all.

I don't know how MO 4Media does it with their android app as a client to MC server, but it works.

[RoderickGI]

Having 'View Extras' work on an MC client would really really bump up the value of a client/server setup for me.

I had only checked Extras running locally, so hadn't noticed this. You are correct, Extras don't work on Clients.

Just one more reason I have to keep my HTPC MC Server local to my TV, when I would prefer to run the Server elsewhere, and use a diskless Client near the TV.

[elo]

I am not sure if the following issues actually belong in this thread but in many ways they do. I have used MC for many many years and experienced the transformation to one of the best audio/video library/playback systems available. I think the discussion in this thread shows that the system is for advanced users and have big challenges of reaching the larger market. Most people does not need all the advanced features and when they have to deal with them they simply drop the system. In our home we have one main media server based on FreeNAS and build on two supermicro headless servers.  This server only acts as a file server and use SAMBA shares to make the content available. We have one Windows 2016 server that among other tasks act as the media playback/library server and for this is running MC 24. We then have several small HTPC machines and PC’s (NUC’s, Rasperry pi’s, Laptops etc) around the house. Some of them are connected to monitors and some are standalone. I have to my irritation and sorrow seen that my wife and children do not prefer the MC based system even though it gives the far superior Audio and Video quality. The reason for this is the difficulty they experience in using it, both in understanding how it works and in setting it up. The concept of having to work through the UI of a PC ( W10) does not make the day today. We were very optimistic when JRemote was introduced. It is demanding to set up as it requires that MC run as server on all clients. Even though we have a very fast WI-FI network the interface comes over as slow. Further, in my opinion, it lacks functionality like:

• Subtitles. It is not possible to control ANY aspect of subtitles from the UI directly. Download, browsing, size adjustment, timing etc  (today download of subtitles can not be done from the client which is a very nice feature to have when you are about to view a film and there is no subtitles available)
• Metadata. Composer, Musician, Director, Actor, Year of production, Genre etc
• Search possibilities. When you have several thousand movies and series there should be more complex search available
• Adjustment of viewing quality to force a reduction of the transmission speed on the server

Please also remember that most people in the word does not have English as native language and are served by subtitles , even in English

I think attention needs to be given to streaming and ease of operation. I have been working the last 10 years with advanced automatic navigation and control systems for large ships and I do know that nothing is as challenging as to offer a simple UI for a very advanced system.

On the server/client issues:

• Ripping directly to the server or through a share on the NAS that is synced with a rsync cron job on the server. I can then use a script that can sort and place the content in the right places following a automatic import in MC
  Updating and fixing TAGS from the clients
• Changing Views on the clients that is synced to the server with potential to select what to up-sync and what to download
• More advanced USER categories so that different authorization can be given. Basic user with only search and play authorization, Advanced User allowed to perform more actions on the clients BUT NO DELETE , administrative users also allowed to r,x,d.

Rgrds .../Ole

[Moe]

Full Authentication isn't possible for MC clients when Authentication is enabled and Read-only Authentication is set to "Everyone."

This is a problem for systems that use Panel with Read-only Authentication (no password operation), MC remote desktop clients can't get full authentication for metadata tagging (on a laptop, for example).

Detailed further in this thread:

I just want to reiterate what drmimosa said earlier.  This is also a big problem for people that use the House Band Alexa skill.  Right now I have to decide between being able to sync changes between a client and the server or have house band function. 

If there were a way to force a client to use authentication then all would be peachy.

[Richard Berg]

Hello, former power user / developer dating way back to the MJ7 days.  Just popping in to say when the iTunes promotion emails made me briefly consider coming back to JRiver, the very first thing I checked is whether you'd implemented a client/server architecture.

Library management is time consuming.  Particularly since I'm a musician, with lots of other musician friends, so that a large % of my incoming media is noncommercial untagged files and discs.  I only want to organize it once, centrally, which for me means "on the NAS".  At the same time, life in 2019 demands multiple clients of various size and CPU power (iPhone, desktop, TVs via ChromeCast/Roku). 

In other words, I think Plex has popularized the right architecture for today's device-centric world, offering the best mix of:
* dirt simple client-side browsers
* true multi-user environment / permission model
* complex, feature-rich backend database, managed via web UI (so that it's equally easy on a headless server as it would be on a traditional PC or HTPC)

Looks like the answer is "no", so I won't be reinvesting in JRiver at this time.  I could write a lot more, but I think this post from back in 2015 says it better than I could: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,96470.msg665346.html#msg665346

Good luck!

[tij]

In other words, I think Plex has popularized the right architecture for today's device-centric world, offering the best mix of:
* dirt simple client-side browsers
* true multi-user environment / permission model
* complex, feature-rich backend database, managed via web UI (so that it's equally easy on a headless server as it would be on a traditional PC or HTPC)

Looks like the answer is "no", so I won't be reinvesting in JRiver at this time.  I could write a lot more, but I think this post from back in 2015 says it better than I could: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,96470.msg665346.html#msg665346

Good luck!

Simplicity rarely goes with feature rich ... there are many things Plex cannot do (i am a lifetime pass member)  ... DSD, 3D, CUE are exampkes if what Plex cannot do ... and while their user community is helpful, their developers on forum are not so

and thats why i am using JRiver ... only thing i use Plex now is for sync to my handheld

true concurrent multi-user databases are hard to implement ... just try find multiuser photo management software ... none of popular ones are (lightroom, acdsee) ... dig deeper and you come across DAM (digital asset management) ... and those cost fortune for a reason

at some time i plan to deploy MC on my home network ... the scenario will be simple one ... one Media Server (headless) ... and only one client that can update DB then sync changes to Media Server that in turn sync changes to rest of clients ... its limited but likely work transparently to my family (most of them just consume media without caring how it got to them)

i probably deploy something else for photo/home video ... as that will need whole family to tag large amount if photoes they generate

[NorthGeorgiaWX]

I have a question that maybe one of you can answer.

I have MC25 on three computers, my laptop being the master.

If I connect on of the other computers to the MC Library on my laptop, the sync both ways or just from the laptop?

I am also "assuming" that I must manually keep the file and folder structure the same which I already do anyway.

[mosser]

It's a shame that this productive thread has seemed to die without many of the valid issues from super-users (defined by the use of multiple clients to maximize their JRiver media and management experience) being addressed.  Could we please have an update on any development efforts aimed at making the client experience seamless from an editing perspective? 

[mosser]

Super-user RoderickGI post #32 above really encapsulates the UX challenges well.  As a super-user myself (only through sheer will and stubbornness to learn JRiver's secret language of configuration over 10 years) I have some additional thoughts in this thread -
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122470.0.html

Please simplify the UX and client/server seamlessness!

[drmimosa]

So I would like to have all tagging and file management functions available on the Client. That would include;

Ripping  (Doesn't work now, but can be worked around using network addressing instead of drive letters. Or shares.)
Importing (Doesn't work now but is pretty easy to do, since when files are placed in the correct place on the Server, they get imported.)
Tagging  (Works fine now.)
Metadata collection including Cover Art, Get Movie & File Info, Get From Internet, etc. (Partly works now? The tagging part probably works, the file management parts don't. Could all work with network addressing or shares.)
Rename, Move, & Copy Files to move files to new locations appropriate to new tags.  (Doesn't work now, but again could be worked around using network addressing or shares.)

Note: As we know, network addressing and shares don't work between OS platforms.

Basically, I would like to be able to sit down at my Workstation and fix all my Library, and have it updated on the HTPC Server.

Just wanted to say that have the above features available on clients would be very very useful for me as well. Thanks.