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[Dennis in FL]

OK....I'll give it a shot.   I'm not clear as to why I'd want to encode to DSD to the DAC.....and for that matter, why I don't want to encode.   

I've had it on DSD 1X for about 2 hours and had only one hiccup in that time.   A lot better but not perfect.   

[Awesome Donkey]

Seems even with Output Encoding set to 1xDSD the Mac still isn't always able to handle the on-the-fly conversion, albeit the dropout becoming more rare.

I'm not clear as to why I'd want to encode to DSD to the DAC.....and for that matter, why I don't want to encode.

When you have Output Encoding set from None to 1xDSD (or higher), it's converting everything to 1xDSD on-the-fly. PCM to DSD (or DSD to PCM) conversions are lossy conversions and it's worth noting (like I mentioned earlier) all DSD conversions go through a PCM stage in the middle, so DSD > PCM > DSD, as there's no way to do a direct DSD conversion. Doing that conversion to 1xDSD (or higher) is a resource intensive operation, meaning the computer has to be fast enough to handle that. Now, let's say you have a 1xDSD file and you have Output Encoding set to 4xDSD, it's actually doing two conversions here (one to PCM then one back to 4xDSD) so it's going to be very taxing on a system. Lower end computers (and Macs, since they tend to have lower-end hardware for higher prices) can't handle these conversions too well and the results is these "dropouts". Multichannel content will be even more resource intensive, and thus more "dropouts" versus stereo content. When you set Output Encoding to 2xDSD or 4xDSD, it becomes even more resource intensive due to large 2xDSD and 4xDSD files are.

Try running the benchmark (Help > Benchmark...) and posting the results here.

Ultimately I personally recommend avoiding these conversions unless you have high-end hardware that's capable of handling these conversions on-the-fly without the "dropout" issues. Leave DSD as-is and bitstream it if your DAC supports it, and leave PCM as-is and don't do any conversions. The DAC (unless it's a DSD-only DAC, which is rare) should be able to handle/decode whatever is sent to it without the dropout issues caused by needless conversions, in my opinion.

[Dennis in FL]

I had DSD encoding but still was getting occasional dropouts.   I changed to none.   I left channels to 2 channel stereo and no upmixing/downmixing.

I don't completely understand the advantages of encoding....I thought I was unloading CPU duties to the DAC and bypassing "CoreAudio"...but I was wrong.   

I'll let you know if I'm still getting drops.   

UPDATE:  Just got multiple drops listening to an AIF file at 44K  -  Similar to the encoded DSD output drops I had earlier with the same file.   I then listened to the same file on iTunes - trough the USB DAC...and playback was perfect.  Which reminds me - I have never had dropouts on iTunes or a HiRes player (I have a Sony HAP)).   I guess I had been thinking wrong that this was happening only on HiRes files....but in this case it was a CD AIF file that had dropouts only on JRiver.

[blgentry]

Let me try to clear up the DSD confusion here:

1.  NEVER use Output Encoding to DSD unless you know what you are doing and know what that setting does.  It's essentially never needed.  Only in very special cases.
2.  Bitstreaming DSD should put minimal load on the mac and have your DSD capable DAC decode DSD, which is what you want probably.
3.  Decoding DSD to PCM in the Mac, with JRiver MC, works totally fine and I have done it some without any audio interruptions.  That being said, my DSD collection is tiny, so I don't have a lot of hours of testing.  I just know I've played a good bit of DSD and never noticed a dropout.  This is what you would normally do if your DAC does not support DSD natively, which none of mine do.

Brian.

[Dennis in FL]

Try running the benchmark (Help > Benchmark...) and posting the results here.

  Model Name:   iMac
  Model Identifier:   iMac15,1
  Processor Name:   Intel Core i7
  Processor Speed:   4 GHz
  Number of Processors:   1
  Total Number of Cores:   4
  L2 Cache (per Core):   256 KB
  L3 Cache:   8 MB


Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 3.466 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.132 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 1.003 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.631 seconds
Score: 2627

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 1.250 seconds
    Flood filling... 0.357 seconds
    Direct copying... 0.528 seconds
    Small renders... 0.839 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 0.601 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 0.329 seconds
Score: 5637

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.193 seconds
    Populate database... 1.088 seconds
    Save database... 0.323 seconds
    Reload database... 0.094 seconds
    Search database... 0.896 seconds
    Sort database... 0.681 seconds
    Group database... 0.634 seconds
Score: 5499

JRMark (version 25.0.34 64 bit): 4588

[Dennis in FL]

I have had dropouts with both Toslink and USB DAC (no hub).
Also....it doesn't seem to be Hi Res related.   I had dropouts on an AIF CD Audio file
I have dropouts with output encoding and no output encoding
I have dropouts with various buffer settings.
I have a 2014 MAC (fusion drive)- which is unaffected by the MAC hardware glich. ( http://cdm.link/2019/02/apple-2018-glitch/ )
I also have a 2018 laptop MacBook pro (SSD drive) which is affected by the  hardware glich.  I have not tested JRiver on the laptop long enough to opine.  A short test gave some dropouts. I'll give it a longer test shortly with the USB DAC.
I have never heard a dropout with other software (iTunes, Amazon, etc)
The dropouts range from a quick "blip" to a 2-3 second moment of silence.

[blgentry]

Dennis,

Your iMac is a monster.  It should have no trouble at all with MC unless you are doing something really taxing at the same time like editing and rendering video or something.  Running Parallels might be considered pretty taxing depending upon what you are doing.  Take a look at Activity Monitor (it's in Applications/Utilities) while you are running MC.  I'm guessing you will see that your CPU is fairly idle.  If you see any kind of high CPU use, this might point to some sort of issue, or program that is consuming CPU power.

Regarding your MC buffer settings:  I suggest setting your HARDWARE buffering to the default.  Don't mess with that setting unless JRiver staff give you specific advice.  For software buffering, max it out as a test.  Go all the way to 1000mS.  Make sure to stop and restart MC after you make this change, then verify that the change is there.

Where are your media files located?  On your internal fusion drive?  If so, that should be fine. Though, if my theory holds, you really want an SSD as your main drive.  I hope I'm wrong in this particular case. 

Good luck,

Brian.

[Dennis in FL]

Most of my media files are on a direct connect external USB 3 hard drive (I also have some lesser used files on an external drive via a USB 3.0 hub).   But I did get some hiccups from an AIF itunes file on my internal drive.   And I had fiddled with the buffer settings quite a bit.   If I get a drop out - I change it.   I had thought reading the entire album into memory would solve it - but it didn't.

Parallels can hog some of the CPU and memory but I normally have Parallels disabled and my drops come when the only thing I'm running is a web browser.   I have checked the activity monitor and there's nothing I see out of the ordinary.  Actually - I was trying to have it in view when I got a dropout to see if something was running in the background.....but it happens so fast, I haven't caught it yet.   Probably need to record it.

But, alas, my patience in this investigation is expiring.   

[blgentry]

I feel your pain my man.  I spent months troubleshooting this on my 2011 macbook pro.  I got it pretty close to perfect with a 750 mS software audio buffer.  I never did any "read file into memory" settings.  Just the audio buffer in Options > Audio > Audio Device > Device Settings

All of my audio files, on the Macbook Pro and the iMac, are on internal drives.  But again, my weird theory, is that the *system drive* is really the one that matters and it needs to be an SSD.  I could easily be wrong.

I wish you the best of luck.

Brian.

[Dennis in FL]

I read your SSD theory and tested it with my 2018 MacBook....which has an SSD.   I did get a hiccup but the 2018 and later have the audio hardware problem.   

I think I've tried just about every combination and the common denominator is JRiver so far.   I don't get dropouts with other players so I'm cautiously ruling out the Mac & Core Audio but keeping a jaundice eye on it.

Update:  I tried your recommendation of buffer at 1000ms and hardware at default.   

So far I'm about 20 minutes into a Tchaikovsky Symphony with no skips !!!!   

Update #2 - Now it is about 2 hours with no drops !!!!   Happy Days are here again.  Fingers crossed

[Dennis in FL]

Fingers crossed.   Still no hiccups or dropouts with my Mac in 2 days.

[JimH]

Are you still running Time Machine?

[Dennis in FL]

Yes...Time Machine is on.   I had tried turning it off in my previous attempts but it didn't make a difference for me. 

But, alas, I must have been testing playback when the backup wasn't running.

I just forced a backup while playing -and DOG-GONE-IT......I got drops.   Some pretty big ones. 

[JimH]

That is an Apple problem. 

You could try a search for work-arounds, or you could try turning it on from time to time.

[Dennis in FL]

What's interesting is I have two backup drives.   One is a USB 3 external hard drive connected via a USB 3.0 hub.  The other is a cloud server connected via WiFi.  I forced backups with both.

So far, I only get dropouts on the USB drive.

[JimH]

Is the port USB 3.0?  A USB 3.0 drive won't work well on a USB 2.0 port.

[Dennis in FL]

I double checked the hardware and it is USB 3.0 all the way (Port >> Hub>>Drive and cables)  The iMac has four USB 3 ports (compatible with USB 2) & two Thunderbolt 2 ports

HOWEVER.....when I did a Help/About/System on the Mac ... even though everything is USB 3.0.....the drive itself is showing up as a USB 2.0...but other drives plugged into the same USB hub are showing up as USB 3.0  !!!  There is another drive showing up as USB 2.0 and it is a few weeks old and a USB3.0 connection

The other 3.0 drives are the same year and model number as the Time Machine drive .....this is crazy. 


I need to investigate further - but I think you were suggesting the other way around....a USB 3.0 plugged into a USB 2.0 port.....and that's not the case.

[Dennis in FL]

I did some troubleshooting.   Since everything from port to drive was 3.0 I figured it had to be a cable.   So I changed the cable of the drive showing up as 2.0 and amazingly it now went to 3.0 but another drive on the same hub was now 2.0.   I changed the cable on that one....and this time it remained 2.0.

I tried rebooting and plugging the drives in one at a time.....This time a different drive was showing up as 2.0 and the rest as 3.0

Finally I unplugged only the hub and rebooted the computer.   I also changed the USB port used from the Mac to the hub.   When I plugged the hub back in...all drives were now 3.0 

Weird !!!!

I know if you plug in a USB 2 device into a 3.0 hub first - the remainder of devices will all be 2.0 as well.   But this wasn't the case here.

[blgentry]

...and do you get dropouts when running a time machine backup, now that you have your TM drive set up as "true" USB 3?

Brian.

[Dennis in FL]

I spoke too soon...some of the drives are still 2.0

I'm now looking at the cables.....I just ordered some extra fast 3.0 cables from Amazon and will try again when I get them.


I had audio dropouts on my TV when I played Dolby Digital and it was the cable.   Got a better cable and all was well.

[Dennis in FL]

...and do you get dropouts when running a time machine backup, now that you have your TM drive set up as "true" USB 3?

Brian.

Alas, I was testing again with Time Machine on and backups via WiFi instead of USB and I got a dropout. Just one but that's enough.  Previously I heard none over maybe an hour of listening with WiFi backups.

So, I am going to temporarily forget about the USB issues (although they are interesting.....I'm still guessing cables)....and now do some extended listening without Time Machine enabled. 

[Dennis in FL]

...and do you get dropouts when running a time machine backup, now that you have your TM drive set up as "true" USB 3?

Brian.

Even though I still have a couple of drives at USB 2.0 they are both utility drives (they have the original USB 3 cable that came with the drive - but to be safe, I ordered better cables).   I have my Time Machine and Music drives on USB 3.0 and have a couple of hours listening with Time Machine ON (backing up to the hard drive) and Time Machine OFF.   

So far it's been a clean playback regardless of the Time Machine status.   

Paint me cautiously optimistic that it is a cable problem (but I've been here before)

[bob]

USB I/O in general can be very touchy, one device on on the same controller as another especially if they are different speeds can cause real issues.

You should try to connect your DAC directly to the Mac (if you aren't already) and use system report try to isolate it to a different controller from the rest of the USB devices.

Note that USB3 will often not work well though a HUB if the cables are not USB3 rated and/or very short.

[Dennis in FL]

My DAC is directly connected to the MAC....

My USB 3 Hub is populated with Seagate USB # drives and the cables that came with the drives.   I ordered a couple of high quality cables to switch out the drives identifying as 2.0 for some reason.   I had been getting drop outs and noticed that my drive used only for Time Machine was showing up in the System Description on the Mac as a USB 2.0.   I switched the cable with another drive and it went to 3.0 !!..   but the other drive is now 2.0.   

Since then, however, I've had no dropouts in a couple hours of listening..   

[bob]

Just for reference, in general there will be at least 2 USB controllers in most computers each with a couple of ports.
Trouble can arise (other than cable issues) when mixed speed devices are on the same controller.
Hubs can also cause issues.

[Dennis in FL]

I managed to get everything (except the DAC) as USB 3.0  but I did get another dropout when Time Machine backup started. 

I'm going to turn off backups for a couple of days and see if it repeats.