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[richard-ec2]

Weird question maybe - I have got Tremote working on my Windows 10 SurfacePro and I am using it to play back the audio files on my main PC which is connected to the stereo system. I've loaded the library from my main PC onto the SurfacePro and I find I can start playback on the stereo by clicking on any track in the SurfacePro library but that's it - none of the other controls on the SurfacePro work, there's no progress bar, nothing, and there's not even a way to stop playback once it's started. What am I doing wrong?   

[richard-ec2]

Any help with this please? I have spent a lot of time with it and as far as I can see, when using MC25 on one Windows PC to control MC playback on another Windows PC, there is no way of pausing or stopping playback. Indeed, if you try it in theatre view, the playback controls disappear.

Am I right? Is there really no way of pausing or stopping playback?

[JimH]

You should be able to press stop on the machine that was used to start playback.

[richard-ec2]

Thanks, JimH - which machine do you mean? I'm using a SurfacePro as a remote control to control playback on the big PC attached to my stereo system. I find I can start playback on the SurfacePro but I can't pause or stop it - the only way I can do that is to go into the big PC attached to my stereo system and do it there, but of course, if I could do that, I wouldn't need the remote!

[JimH]

The stop button on the Surface should work.  If it doesn't, try the settings in MC for Media Keys.  Also try a Google search for the problem.

You could try using another remote as a test.  Panel would be a good test.

[richard-ec2]

OK, good to know - thanks JimH. Will work on that and report back.

[richard-ec2]

I've made some progress but haven't yet found the answer.

It seems to be connected with zones. The PC I'm trying to control has two zones but when I load Tremote on the SurfacePro, it can only see one of them, and it's not the one I'm trying to use.

The odd thing is, if I use another Windows laptop to control the PC with two zones, it doesn't have this problem - it sees both zones and Tremote works fine.

Also, if I use the SurfacePro to control a PC with only one zone, that works fine, too.

So the only thing that doesn't work is if I try to use SurfacePro with Tremote to connect with a PC with two zones.

Any idea why that could be? I'm baffled. I'm sure it would work if I uninstalled one of the zones but I'm not sure that would tell us much - and I do need both zones.

Incidentally the SurfacePro works fine with Panel, using both zones.

[JimH]

Switch to the zone you do want to control first.  Click on it in Playing Now.

[richard-ec2]

Yes, that's the way I've been doing it all along but I just did it again to make sure and the problem is still there.

The two zones on my big PC are named "stereo" and "multichannel". My other laptop loads both zones without any problem (There: stereo and There: multichannel) but the SurfacePro will only load There: multichannel. I suspect it loads the zones in alphabetical order and for some reason it will not load more than one zone, so it stops at "There: multichannel".

[RoderickGI]

In the MC installation on the SurfacePro, do you have any other Zones set up, other than the default "Player" Zone?
If you only have the "Player" Zone in the local Library on the SurfacePro, then please clarify if that is your situation and the "There: Multichannel" Zone still doesn't show up.

If you do have extra Zones in the local Library on the SurfacePro, try this:
1. Backup the local Library on the SurfacePro, so that you will be able to Restore the Library and all your current settings to it after this test.
2. Delete all extra Zones in the local Library on the SurfacePro, and only leave the "Player" Zone in place.
3. Restart MC on the SurfacePro. Check which Dynamic Zones show up under Playing Now. They should be something like "MainPC: Stereo", "MainPC: Multichannel", and "MainPC" (which is the "Player" Zone on the Main PC, if you haven't deleted that default Zone.)
4. Connect the SurfacePro to the Main PC Library as a Client. Check which Dynamic Zones show up under Playing Now. They should be something like "There: Stereo", "There: Multichannel", and "There".


Please report what you find in steps 3 and 4. I am chasing some similar issues in my environment, and it would be good to know what happens when you try the above.

[richard-ec2]

The short answer is no - I only have one zone set up on the SurfacePro.

But you have made me notice something else.

The main PC does not show up under Playing Now on the SurfacePro or the other laptop. However, if I right click on "Playing from" on the laptop, and then click on "Delete Dynamic Libraries", I can see an entry named "Main-PC (Generic DLNA)". This entry does NOT appear on the SurfacePro.

I wonder why that is? I have all the DLNA options unchecked on all PCs.

[richard-ec2]

Another step forward maybe: I've just conducted an experiment using yet another PC, an Intel-NUC loaded with MC25.

First, I loaded it with the library and settings from the SurfacePro, then tried loading Tremote. Result: failure. I could only see one of the two zones on the main PC.

Second, I loaded it with the library and settings from the laptop, then tried loading Tremote. Result: success. I could see BOTH zones on the main PC.

This indicates to me that the problem lies in a difference between the MC settings on the SurfacePro and the MC settings on the laptop.

The only difference I have been able to identify so far is the one named in the post above: under Playing Now, the laptop sees the main PC as a "generic DLNA" but the SurfacePro does not see this.

I wonder if maybe at some point in the past I have tried to do some tidying up and erroneously deleted the "generic DLNA" setting from the settings that went onto the SurfacePro? And I wonder if that could be the problem? And if so, I wonder how I can get it back?

Just to mention once more, all the DLNA options in Tools-Media Network are unchecked on all PCs.

[RoderickGI]

I wonder why that is? I have all the DLNA options unchecked on all PCs.

If you mean that you have "DLNA Server", "DLNA Renderer", and "DLNA Controller" unchecked under "Tools > Options >Media Network > Advanced" then you should be seeing anything that says "DLNA" at all. When you say right click on "Playing from" I assume that you mean "Playing Now", as I don't even see something called "Playing from", and "Delete Dynamic Libraries" in under the "Playing Now" right-click menu.

I am pretty convinced that MC doesn't clean up old Zones that have been created and then deleted, or Dynamic Zones that are found and then lost, perhaps due to changes on the device or in the network. So I think what you are seeing, the supposed ability to delete the "Main-PC (Generic DLNA)" Dynamic Library, is a symptom of that. I think the issue with cleaning up old Zones may be the reason that not all Zones are shown in your configuration.

In fact I now have a configuration just like yours, with a Player, Stereo, and Multichannel Zone on my Server, and just a Player Zone on my Client PC. I have also turned off al the DLNA components just like you. So I am purely using Tremote on my Client, just like you.

Only two Zones show up for the Server, "There" and "There: Stereo". So a similar situation to you. Earlier in the day, when I had the DLNA components turned on, I saw all three remote Zones. But not now.

I do think that deleting any Dynamic Zone, such as a Generic DLNA" Zones, can have detrimental effects on how well MC works with Zones. But I can't prove that. I'm not going to test that either in case it really screws things up. I couldn't get my TV to show up as a DLNA Renderer for ages, and I thought that it was because I may have previousy deleted its Dynamic Zones but couldn't prove that, then I thought it was because the TV was on a WiFi connection which wasn't the best (even though other DLNA Server saw the TV just fine), and finally I now believe that it was because I had extra Zones on my Server. When those extra Zones were removed, my TV showed up as a target DLNA Renderer immediately.

So it is very likely an issue with how MC is managing Zones.


Your experiment with the Intel NUC is interesting, and it may give you a way to "fix" your current issue, though I don't know if it will last.

Take a Library Backup from your Laptop and Restore it to your SurfacePro, but only restore the Settings, and not the "Library and Playlist". Theoretically, the SurfacePro should then show both your Zones, just like the laptop does. You may need to tweak some settings on the SurfacePro after the restore, like the local Audio Device, but that may be easier than fixing this other issue.

Let us know how that goes.

[richard-ec2]

It is quite a coincidence that we have such similar setups.

Yes, those are the DLNA options I'm referring to. All are unchecked so yes, I share your surprise that any reference to a DLNA device is showing up anywhere under Playing now. It doesn't seem quite right.

To explain where I am seeing it: first, you expand Playing now, using the dropdown arrow on the right. You then get a (to me) confusing list of stuff comprising first, the playback devices or zones available to you, and second, the libraries available to you. The second part of the list is headed "Playing from" and its default is "Playing from Main Library". If you right click on that, you get a little menu of four options, and the last on the list is "Delete Dynamic Libraries" with an arrow, If you click on the arrow, there's list of libraries you can delete and among mine is Main PC (generic DLNA).

The strange thing is, this is the only place on any of my PCs where I can see any reference at all to my main PC under Playing now. I suspect at some point in the past, in a misguided attempt to tidy up all the entries under Playing now, I must have done some over-enthusiastic deleting, and now I don't know how to restore the defaults or get everything back.

I appreciate your suggestion of a fix and I'm sure that would work. The alternative I suppose would be to do a clean install of MC and then manually enter all my old settings one by one while being careful to leave the Playing now settings at their default. I think that would probably fix it but it would be a bit laborious so I'll wait a bit to see if any other ideas pop up before embarking on it.

[richard-ec2]

As an experiment I just did a clean install of MC on the SurfacePro  - no settings of my own, everything left at default. Result: success - both zones on the main PC load in Tremote without any problem. So this confirms that it's something to do with my MC settings relating to the way the PCs talk to each other, but I don't know what.

[RoderickGI]

Ah, I see what you mean by "Playing from" now. I was looking for something that just said "Playing from", not "Playing from Library-Name".

You know I don't believe I have ever right-clicked on the "Playing from Library-Name" item before, always right-clicking on the "Playing Now" heading, because that is what has been described as the right thing to do. Now that I have, I see under the "Delete Dynamic Libraries" any and all DLNA Server based libraries that I have ever used. Generally in the past I have only used Tremote between my Server and Client, and not connected to Servers using pure DLNA. But lately, I have been experimenting with DLNA Servers a lot more.

Actually, every time you wrote "Delete Dynamic Libraries" I read "Delete Dynamic Zones". I should read more carefully!

Anyway, that "Main-PC (Generic DLNA)" would have been created at some time before you used Tremote and connected to the Main PC from the laptop using DLNA. That is, you must have had DLNA Server turned on in the Main PC Server settings, and connected from the laptop to the Main PC. You can leave that record there, if it is still there, or delete it, since you are using Tremote. It doesn't matter either way.


Good to hear a clean install fixed the issue. Keep an eye on it and see if that is permanent. I assume you did an uninstall first and then a reinstall. MC must have properly cleaned out the Registry during the uninstall, which is good to know.

Unfortunately, I can't do a clean install on either of my PCs as I would lose too much. I could perhaps on my Client PC, but not on my Server PC. So I'm hoping for a fix from JRiver.

[richard-ec2]

Yes, I completely uninstalled the previous MC on SurfacePro including settings and did a clean install. I have now restored the library (which includes the tree and all the view schemes) from a backup but I did not restore the settings. Instead, I just went through all the settings manually adjusting them to suit my preferences - it didn't take too long. I think you also lose zones if you lose settings but even so, it's an option worth considering I think.

One interesting thing was that TRemote worked on this new installation even before I had switched on Media Network! Presumably it just does it all through the web (aka MCWS).

After I switched on Media Network, I found that DLNA was also switched on by default. I immediately switched off all the DLNA options. Not fast enough apparently, because I later noticed to my slight irritation that the Surface Pro was showing as a "generic DLNA" device on my laptop. However, I have just checked as I write this and it has disappeared again, but Playing Now is currently showing TWO instances of SurfacePro (Library server)! I just don't understand what it's doing and I doubt anyone else does either. I think in the past I have set about deleting unwanted references to library servers and I think that's what may have caused a problem. So I will be a lot more cautious in future, maybe trying to "hide" them rather than deleting them. What I don't know is whether it's safe to delete those redundant references to DLNA servers after DLNA has been turned off but I'm wary of deleting anything now.

I'll leave it there for now - my zones are still working with Tremote so all looks good - but will report back if they fail later. Best of luck with yours!

[RoderickGI]

A restart of MC on the laptop may have gotten rid of the unwanted "generic DLNA" device reference.

Two instances of the SurfacePro (Library server) is strange, unless one was a DLNA Server and one the JRiver Tremote Server, which can happen in DLNA was on for a bit. A restart of all MC instances may fix that.

I would only use the Hide function from now on. If the references don't turn up as Zones under Playing Now, then they aren't really doing any harm.