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[JustinChase]

The choices aren't as clear as they could be.  I think I might know what they mean, but I'm probably wrong.  Can someone please clarify for me.

Original
Specified output format
Specified output format only when necessary
Specified output format only when necessary (including high bitrates)

Original is obvious

Specified output format - to me says convert everything to this format.  Does this include converting every file to the specified settings, even if it's already the selected format?  i.e. all mp3 files are converted to mp3 at "High quality portable" if that's the encoding selection I choose.

Specified output format only when necessary - does this keep mp3 as mp3 if I select mp3, no matter the encoding selection I choose?  i.e. 192 bit mp3 stays 192 no matter what I choose to have other file types encoded to

Specified output format only when necessary (including high bitrates) - I don't really know what "(including high bitrates)" means, because my understanding of the other 2 options seems to cover this.

I'd love some clarity on this, including perhaps renaming the options to be more clear in the options dialog.

thanks

[blgentry]

As I understand it, the "only when necessary" is referring to your setting in:

handhelds > files types and more > supported formats > (set formats here with list)

So if you tell it that your handheld can play MP3 and AAC, then it will pass MP3s and AACs transparently to the handheld without doing a file conversion.  But FLACs (for example) will use the encoder you specify with the settings you specify.

The high bitrate thing I'm not sure about.

Brian.

[swiv3d]

Bump - I do think some explanation is needed except for original.

[BryanC]

Brian is right and I also don't know what qualifies as "high-bitrate".

[RoderickGI]

Original
The original file is synced unchanged, without any conversion.

Specified output format
The file is always converted to the format specified in the Encoder settings of the Encoder selected in the Handheld Options.

Specified output format only when necessary
The file is only converted when it is not supported by the target device, as defined by the supported file types listed in the Handheld Options > "File, Paths, & More > Supported Types".


Specified output format only when necessary (including high bitrates)
The file is only converted when it is not supported by the target device, as defined by the supported file types listed in the Handheld Options > "File, Paths, & More > Supported Types", or the file type is supported but the bitrate is significantly higher than the output bitrate specified in the Encoder settings of the Encoder selected in the Handheld Options.

Note 1: A file will not be converted if a copy of it already exists in the Audio Cache location as defined in "Options > File Location > Conversion Cache > Audio", regardless of the Bitrate of the cached file. The Audio Conversion Cache functionality can be turned off by selecting the "None (do not create cache)" setting in that option.
Note 2: A file will also not be converted if it already exists on the Device itself, regardless of the Bitrate of the existing file.
Note 3: The file will also not be converted if the target Bitrate is close to the existing Bitrate. For example, a 203 Kbps VBR MP3 file will not be converted if the encoder settings call for a 192 Kbps CBR conversion. Files in the range 160 to 192 Kbps will not be converted with 160 Kbps CBR conversion settings, but will all be converted with 128 Kbps CBR conversion settings.

==============================================

Reference: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,103512.msg719640.html#msg719640 where it was tested by Imeric.

If someone tests that the functionality still works that way, and if the above wording makes sense to everyone, I'll update the Handheld Sync Options Wiki.

If it doesn't work, something is broken or settings are wrong.

If the above wording still doesn't make sense, please write a description that does make sense to you, and I'll consider using that. 

[A.K.]

I hope and pray that someday in the near future there is an option to convert only lossless files and leave lossy files alone. Saves more space in my phone.

[JustinChase]

Specified output format only when necessary (including high bitrates)
The file is only converted when it is not supported by the target device, as defined by the supported file types listed in the Handheld Options > "File, Paths, & More > Supported Types", and the file bitrate is higher than the output bitrate specified in the Encoder settings of the Encoder selected in the Handheld Options.

Thanks for this!

I suspect you mean "or" the file bitrate is higher than the output bitrate.  If it's not supported, it does not matter what bitrate it is in the library.

i.e.  if it's not supported OR the bitrate of the original is higher...

This does bring up something still unclear with 'bitrate is higher then settings in encoder'.  What bitrate is the MP3 setting for "High Quality Portable"?  I believe it's a variable bitrate, so what is the cutoff point for what gets converted in this case?

I would want to convert all non MP3 files to High Quality Bitrate MP3's, but am happy to move any existing MP3 as it is, with no conversion.  320 MP3's would probably be converted with any of the options above, but that would only save a small amount of space, and would reduce quality (even though I probably cannot tell).  Not worth doing IMO.

Short of changing the 'supported file types' to only MP3, I don't see any option to so what I describe here.

[blgentry]

I hope and pray that someday in the near future there is an option to convert only lossless files and leave lossy files alone. Saves more space in my phone.

That's fairly easy to do now.  Just set up the profile so that it only "supports" MP3, AAC, or whatever your lossy type of choice is.  Then set to convert only when necessary and choose an encoder.  It will then pass lossy files through without touching them, and convert FLAC (and other lossless) to lossy.

This gets a little sticky with ALAC depending upon the file extension.  Hopefully you don't have any ALACs (or just a few).

Brian.

[RoderickGI]

Ah yes, I didn't proofread that for logical correctness properly. It should have been OR, thanks JustinChase. I have clarified it a bit further. Does that read better?

I think you would need to experiment to clarify the cutoff points for the bitrate of those generic MP3 quality descriptions for your specific files. There is no definitive bitrate for them, but rather a range.

Here are a couple of references that clarify the bitrates achieved.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,45140.0.html describes the relationship between the generic quality descriptions and the LAME settings.
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=LAME is the reference in the above thread that shows the actual bitrate ranges.

Generic Description      Switch   Target Kbps   Typical Kbps
High Quality Portable      -V 5      ~130      120–150

I've updated the Wiki to include that information: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Encoding_Settings


I tend to use constant bitrate MP3 conversions because they are immediately recognisable, and space isn't an issue on my target devices. So 128 Kbps usually, if I convert at all. FLAC rules!

As per Brian's response, with MC set to "Specified output format only when necessary" and file types set to MP3 and any other format you want to be sent as originals to the Handheld, MC won't convert any MP3 files, including 320 Kbps files. So if you want to convert all non-MP3 formats, what is the issue with just specifying MP3 are the only supported file type? It does what you describe.

[RoderickGI]

I did some more testing of the conversion used with Handheld Sync to confirm Imeric's result, and got some very variable and inconsistent results.

So I did some more testing, and updated the description above  with some notes for clarification.

Please review and let me know if that all makes sense. Then I can put it in the Wiki.

[A.K.]

Thanks, Works perfectly

[JustinChase]

Ah yes, I didn't proofread that for logical correctness properly. It should have been OR, thanks JustinChase. I have clarified it a bit further. Does that read better?

I think you would need to experiment to clarify the cutoff points for the bitrate of those generic MP3 quality descriptions for your specific files. There is no definitive bitrate for them, but rather a range.

Here are a couple of references that clarify the bitrates achieved.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,45140.0.html describes the relationship between the generic quality descriptions and the LAME settings.
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=LAME is the reference in the above thread that shows the actual bitrate ranges.

Generic Description      Switch   Target Kbps   Typical Kbps
High Quality Portable      -V 5      ~130      120–150

I've updated the Wiki to include that information: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Encoding_Settings


I tend to use constant bitrate MP3 conversions because they are immediately recognisable, and space isn't an issue on my target devices. So 128 Kbps usually, if I convert at all. FLAC rules!

As per Brian's response, with MC set to "Specified output format only when necessary" and file types set to MP3 and any other format you want to be sent as originals to the Handheld, MC won't convert any MP3 files, including 320 Kbps files. So if you want to convert all non-MP3 formats, what is the issue with just specifying MP3 are the only supported file type? It does what you describe.

Thanks for the further clarification.

I can specify MP3 as the only supported type, but I hate to remove all the 'known' supported types, in case I ever decide I want to send lossless files to the phone.

I just don't like having to 'falsify' information to get it to do what I want.  In the end, it probably doesn't matter, and it's probably what I'll end up doing.

[RoderickGI]

I've updated the Wiki with a new "Clarification of Conversion Modes" section.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Handheld_Sync_Options