Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[alana]

MANY THANKS in advance for any advice from the experts on the forum. 

I looked through all of the posts in the "JRiver Center 25" forum, and also searched using this and other search parameters, and I don't believe this question has been covered.  I'm sure that others will have similar questions in the future, so your responses should be very useful for others as well.

All of my personal work is done on an iMac or MacBook.  Several years ago I purchased a PC media center that came configured to run JRiver, MKV, dBpoweramp CD ripper and Roon. My external hard drive with all audio and video files uses the NTFS format.

Of course, I then ended up with two systems, two keyboards, etc.  So I'm considering migrating everything on the media center to the iMac for convenience.

So what am I losing by shifting to the Mac version of J River as compared with the Windows version?  What am I gaining?  Specifically:

(1) I assume I can copy over the JRiver and Roon data base backups to the Mac using the Mac migration utility, but would greatly appreciate any advice and warnings in that regard. 

Will the data base work OK when shifted from an NTFS file system to the Mac OS file system?

I would then just copy the contents of the NTFS drive, with my audio and video files, to a Mac external drive formatted for that purpose.  And then also use Time Machine as an additional backup for the media library.

(2)  Is audio quality essentially the same when comparing the Intel audio drivers in Windows versus the Mac OS audio drivers?

(3)  Is there any difference with regards to how an audio or video signal is passed by HDMI when using JRiver for Windows versus Mac?  Or when comparing how the Windows operating system works when passing or upsampling audio files, versus the Mac OS?

One article (link below) said that once the Mac Audio Midi Setup is set up for 2 channel 24/96, "you can play files at any resolution up to and including 24/96; lower-resolution files will actually be upsampled to 24/96 (which, unfortunately, won’t make them sound any better.)"

Is that how Windows handles 24/96 -- does the Windows driver actually upsample 16/44 files, or does it pass the file to the DAC or processor for playback as 16/44, and/or leave any upsampling to the DAC, which presumably does a better job?

(4)  I have a few files recorded in 24/192.  An article (link below) reported that as of several years ago, the Mac OS will  not play files at 192.  Is that still the case?

(5)  I've read articles that state that the Mac OS will not read or play back most encrypted or protected HD digital video?  (See the link below.)  Will JRiver for the Mac OS play back the blu-rays I ripped using MKV? 

Will J River for Macs play back DTS HD Master and Dolby True HD?

(6)  I have used MakeMKV for ripping Blu-Rays for my own personal use.  That is only available for Windows though.  Will JRiver successfully rip commercial Blu-Rays? The JRiver help files state that "Media Center can copy the files from the BDMV directory of an unencrypted Blu-ray disc."  Which Blu-Rays are encrypted and won't copy?  Most commercial Blu-Rays?

If JRiver can't rip many encrypted Blu-Rays, is there a Mac program that can do so?

MANY THANKS for any responses and advice!  Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

The articles I referenced above:

https://www.macworld.com/article/3116414/oops-you-cant-play-most-protected-digital-video-on-an-external-mac-monitor.html

https://www.macworld.com/article/1160651/how-to-find-and-play-high-resolution-audio-on-the-mac.html

[blgentry]

I looked through all of the posts in the "JRiver Center 25" forum, and also searched using this and other search parameters, and I don't believe this question has been covered.

Here's a thread that documents most of the differences between the Windows and Mac versions of MC:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=97363.0

I'll cover more of your questions below.

(1) I assume I can copy over the JRiver and Roon data base backups to the Mac using the Mac migration utility, but would greatly appreciate any advice and warnings in that regard.

Roon, I have no idea.  MC database:  You can definitely transfer over a database BACKUP and restore it into an MC Library on the Mac.  However, your file structure will be a bit different because you won't have drive letters and on the Mac external drives appear as:
/Volumes/Name Of Hard Drive Here/stuff

You'll need to use a tool called the Rename, Move, and Copy files tool to tell MC, "Hey all of these files moved over here".  It's not hard, but it's detailed.  It's documented on the Wiki pretty thoroughly:

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Rename,_Move,_and_Copy_Files

You'll probably have questions and might want to start a separate thread topic about the procedure.  The procedure has kind of a lot of steps, including copying all of your files from your NTFS drive to another drive, etc.  It's not hard.  But it will look "big" when it's all written out.

Will the data base work OK when shifted from an NTFS file system to the Mac OS file system?

Since you're transfering a backup file and restoring it, it will be no problem; other than the Rename, Move, and Copy Tool being necessary.  THis is a good place to mention that Windows uses backslash between directory names, while Mac uses slash: \ versus / .  RM&C was "fixed" to deal with this a while back, but I have not personally tested it, so I'm not sure how it deals with this issue.  I hope it's all automatic and easy, but not sure.  It's something to watch for when doing the RM&C step.

(2)  Is audio quality essentially the same when comparing the Intel audio drivers in Windows versus the Mac OS audio drivers?

Presuming that your DAC has USB audio generic support, then yes.  You would want to make sure that your DAC shows up on Mac as a device.  If so, MC can use it and the quality will be very good.  If you are using HDMI for audio and you want multichannel to work, it might get hairy.  I haven't messed with this myself, but the reading I've done makes me unsure if it works well or not.

(3)  Is there any difference with regards to how an audio or video signal is passed by HDMI when using JRiver for Windows versus Mac?  Or when comparing how the Windows operating system works when passing or upsampling audio files, versus the Mac OS?

Video will be "totally different" on the Mac version of MC.  The video engine is something that was written from scratch on the Mac.  On Windows it's "Red October" which is kind of a third party windows specific tool.  Red October has a bunch of customization that can be done for many parameters.  Including some kind of manual video scaling settings (upsampling of video as you mentioned).  The Mac version does none of this.  You get video at the resolution of the monitor as presented to Mac OS.  It seems mostly fine.  I'm picky though and noticed that video seems a bit soft and "odd" from time to time.  So I'm no longer using Video on MC for Mac.  I'm using another product instead.

One article (link below) said that once the Mac Audio Midi Setup is set up for 2 channel 24/96, "you can play files at any resolution up to and including 24/96; lower-resolution files will actually be upsampled to 24/96 (which, unfortunately, won’t make them sound any better.)"

MC for Mac will play files at whatever resolution you tell it to and that your DAC supports.  For example, if your DAC supports 96kHz and 44.1kHz, you can tell MC to pass those through as is.  MC will handle working with the Mac audio driver to set these settings for you in real time, so you don't have to do anything extra after you configure it how you want it using the DSP Studio > Output Format .  For formats that your DAC does not support (like 88.2 for example), you can tell MC what to do:  Upsample to 96kHz.  Or downsample to 44.1kHz.  MC does it all transparently after you configure it.

(4)  I have a few files recorded in 24/192.  An article (link below) reported that as of several years ago, the Mac OS will  not play files at 192.  Is that still the case?

I didn't read the article, but NO that's totally false.  I have played 24/192 files using MC on my Mac with a DAC that supports it.

(5)  I've read articles that state that the Mac OS will not read or play back most encrypted or protected HD digital video?  (See the link below.)  Will JRiver for the Mac OS play back the blu-rays I ripped using MKV? 

If you have ISOs of DVDs or BDs that are encrypted, then MC for Mac will NOT play them.  MC for Windows relies up yet another third party tool to do this decryption "silently" behind the scenes.  However, you mentioned MakeMKV.  Generally speaking when you rip titles from BDs or DVDs with MakeMKV, it decrypts them and writes them as normal video files, playable by any player with the right CODECs.  I have hundreds of MKVs that I've ripped from DVD and BD and they all play just fine with MC for Mac and with other Mac video players.

Will J River for Macs play back DTS HD Master and Dolby True HD?

Yes.  MC will not play Dolby Atmos or DTS:X content.  It *can* bitstream that content to a processor (or receiver) that can decode it.  But yes DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD are natively supported.

(6)  I have used MakeMKV for ripping Blu-Rays for my own personal use.  That is only available for Windows though.  Will JRiver successfully rip commercial Blu-Rays?

Well, good news first:  MakeMKV is fully supported for Mac.  I have used the Mac version to rip hundreds of disks.  Download yours today!

MC for Mac will rip CDs.  But it won't do anything with any kind of video disc.  No DVDs, No BDs, No ultra 4k.  But MakeMVK works, so you're all set.

MANY THANKS for any responses and advice!  Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

You are welcome.  You might owe me a beer. 

When you are ready, you can download a 30 day trial of MC for Mac and try all of this stuff before you buy.  Good luck to you!

Brian.

[Manfred]

(2)  Is audio quality essentially the same when comparing the Intel audio drivers in Windows versus the Mac OS audio drivers?

I have MC on Win 10 since 6 years and on macOS/macbook Pro 1 year (I use it rarely, if I am away from home). Driver audio quality is for me the same.

But Features & Functions are sometimes different. DSD over Dop e.g. is not supported on my Devialet with Devialet AIR on my macbook, one has to use USB or UpnP. So function & features depend sometimes on the DAC and on the supported drivers by the vendor of the DAC.

(4)  I have a few files recorded in 24/192.  An article (link below) reported that as of several years ago, the Mac OS will  not play files at 192.  Is that still the case?

No. works fine for me.

[alana]

Here's a thread that documents most of the differences between the Windows and Mac versions of MC:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=97363.0

I searched long and hard but did not find that thread.  Does a search pick up older threads?  Maybe I searched only within the thread on the current version.

If you are using HDMI for audio and you want multichannel to work, it might get hairy.  I haven't messed with this myself, but the reading I've done makes me unsure if it works well or not.

MC for Mac will play files at whatever resolution you tell it to and that your DAC supports.  For example, if your DAC supports 96kHz and 44.1kHz, you can tell MC to pass those through as is.  MC will handle working with the Mac audio driver to set these settings for you in real time, so you don't have to do anything extra after you configure it how you want it using the DSP Studio > Output Format .  For formats that your DAC does not support (like 88.2 for example), you can tell MC what to do:  Upsample to 96kHz.  Or downsample to 44.1kHz.  MC does it all transparently after you configure it.

Brian, how do the settings in the Mac Audio Midi affect what MC does?  What settings should be used within the Mac Audio Midi? 

I haven't yet fully installed MC on my Mac as it sounds like a serious undertaking.  I did install Roon as a preliminary test, using HDMI as the connection, and it could play on Sonos and other devices it detected on my network.  Using that, I discovered the following:

When playing a 2 channel stereo signal, I often use Dolby surround to utilize a very high quality Wilson Mezzo center speaker, and listen in a 3 speaker setup.  I also sometimes play 2 channel but utilize Dolby surround through a multiple speaker surround setup.  What I discovered is that my Anthem processor can only utilize Dolby Surround on 2 channel when the Mac Audio Midi setup is set for 2 channel, which is limited to 44.1 or 48 kHz.  However, when playing a 2 channel stereo source, and the Mac Audio Midi is set to multichannel (which is also the only way to deliver 98 kHz), Dolby Surround does not work.  (Changing settings within Roon had no effect on this behavior.)

Brian, you said that MC will play at "whatever resolution" you tell it to.  My question for you is whether the Mac Audio Midi setup overrules that, since it is setting audio at the system level.   So if I set the Audio Midi for 2 channel 48 kHz, does that mean that I wouldn't be able play 2 channel files at 96 kHz through MC?  Does that mean I wouldn't be able to play video files using high definition multichannel sound such as Dolby True HD? 

Would it then be necessary to change the Audio Midi set up each time when switching between 2 channel and multichannel?

* The video playback engine is not identical or feature-for-feature identical to the Windows DirectShow based system. JRiver is writing an entirely new video playback system for Mac OSX, with the goal of providing high-quality playback comparable to MadVR on Windows, but the task is not yet complete. 

Video will be "totally different" on the Mac version of MC.  The video engine is something that was written from scratch on the Mac.  On Windows it's "Red October" which is kind of a third party windows specific tool.  Red October has a bunch of customization that can be done for many parameters.  Including some kind of manual video scaling settings (upsampling of video as you mentioned).  The Mac version does none of this.  You get video at the resolution of the monitor as presented to Mac OS.  It seems mostly fine.  I'm picky though and noticed that video seems a bit soft and "odd" from time to time.  So I'm no longer using Video on MC for Mac.  I'm using another product instead.

I also noticed that the static video playback of Roon was a bit sharper though my PC media center than through the iMac.  Haven't had a chance to test actual video playback using MC.  But it does appear to a bit softer.

Brian, what product are you using to play video?

You are welcome.  You might owe me a beer. 

Brian.

I owe you much more than just a beer!  I greatly appreciate your time and detailed response!

[Awesome Donkey]

Right now I'd say the Windows version is still superior to the Mac version for multiple reasons, e.g. Television support and much, MUCH better video support in Red October and Red October HQ via madVR and LAV Filters, which doesn't exist outside of Windows.

That said, the feature gap between MC for Windows and Mac has closed a great deal over the last couple years, but even so it's likely Windows will always be better for video because of the use of LAV Filters and madVR.

Bottom line, if you want the best looking video, Windows is likely the way to go (assuming, of course, you have a good GPU to handle Red October HQ and madVR).

[blgentry]

I searched long and hard but did not find that thread.  Does a search pick up older threads?  Maybe I searched only within the thread on the current version.

I find the search function to be hard to use here.  But that's true at many forums and web sites.  So I use google search instead.  Sometimes I use the "site:yabb.jriver.com" parameter to make sure it hits the forum.  Other times I just use key words like "JRiver Mac compared to Windows".  Google does a pretty good job of finding the forum threads I want.

Brian, how do the settings in the Mac Audio Midi affect what MC does?  What settings should be used within the Mac Audio Midi? 

Generally speaking, you don't need to touch those at all when using MC.  MC sets them (or the equivalent) behind the scenes while it's playing.  When it needs to play 96kHz, it sets the proper parameters in the Mac Core Audio system.  "It just works".  I would only mess with Audi MIDI Setup as a last resort.  I have had no reason to manually adjust it's sample rate and I have played most of the popular rates including 44.1, 96, and 192.

*DO* go through the DSP Studio > Output format section though.  I believe MC defaults all of this to 96kHz, which isn't what you want if you have a more capable DAC.

Brian, what product are you using to play video?

Kodi.  It's not as capable as MC.  By a long shot.  But it's video quality, on a Mac monitor, is superior in my opinion.

Brian.

[alana]

Generally speaking, you don't need to touch those at all when using MC.  MC sets them (or the equivalent) behind the scenes while it's playing.  When it needs to play 96kHz, it sets the proper parameters in the Mac Core Audio system.  "It just works".  I would only mess with Audi MIDI Setup as a last resort.  I have had no reason to manually adjust it's sample rate and I have played most of the popular rates including 44.1, 96, and 192.

Brian, Manfred and the Awesome Donkey -- thanks very much for your responses!  As I said, this thread will be very useful for others in the future, and I picked a subject heading that can be easily found with a search for those with similar questions regarding a comparison of Mac versus Windows.

The Mac Audio Midi Setup defaults to 2 channel 44.1.  Based on Brian's recommendation, I will just leave it alone and let MC change those settings transparently in the background.  The good news is the default works best for 2 channel stereo, as it means that my Anthem processor can then successfully process Dolby Surround for 2 channel, and then Dolby Surround for 3 or more speakers can then be utilized.   According to Brian, MC will then shift the Mac Core Audio system to multichannel at a higher sampling level for 2 channel 96 (the Apple Midi only provides for higher sampling when set to multichannel), or for true multichannel like Dolby True HD.

Thanks again! I plan on doing the full install this weekend, and may have more questions at that time.  Stay tuned!

I may find that the video is inferior, but it is a little less important to me, so I will compare and report back.  I will be able to compare a Windows PC using MC and a Mac using MC in real time.

[Scobie]

Would it be safe to say that both the Windows and Mac versions of MC are ahead of Linux in terms of dev/functionality?

[Awesome Donkey]

Mmm, nope. I'd say MC for Linux and Mac are pretty similar at this point.