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[maid]

This may be an odd one but I will try to explain.
In theater view I have under videos, Movies TV and Docos
To get the Documentary's to display in theater view i had to set them as tv shows but some are movies and if I dont set these to tv shows they are listed under unassigned.
How can I get the movies to display correctly as movies without it displaying all my other movies?

[wer]

That's because the tags in your files weren't matching the theater view setup.  You changed the tags to fix it, instead of the other way around.

Go to Options->Theater View and take a look in "Items to Display".

Everything you see in theater view is configurable, pretty much.  What menus you see, what files are displayed where, how things are sorted, etc.

You need to configure theater view to meet your needs, as you would need to configure standard mode views.

Setup a view in theater view to display your documentaries, with their tags the way you think they should be.  Google "jriver configure theater view" and you'll find some threads if you need more info.  The wiki is lacking in step by step for this topic.

Glynor gives a basic tutorial here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103854.0

[maid]

yes I think what i am trying to do is not possible.

Documentaries by nature are series which is basically TV.
Occasionally there is a Documentary Movie so there is no series.
I was trying to find some way of identifying a movie and not a series in theater view.

[RoderickGI]

Identify the Documentaries either using a Keyword or the Genre in MC. [Medai Type] with be "Video". [Media Sub Tyep] will be either "Movie" or "TV Show".
In Standard View, set up a Category View for your Documentaries, selected based on the above parameters.
Once the View has been created, display it and Group by [Media Sub Type], which will be "Movie" or "TV Show". That should make it easy to see which type of Documentary each file is. Then test different List Styles to see which suits your needs better.

That works fine in Standard View. Just transfer the idea for use in Theatre View. i.e. Use the Group By functionality to group TV Show Documentaries separately to Movie Documentaries.

[wer]

What I did for my needs was to take it one step further.  I created a new database fiield [Film Genre].  This can be set to action/adventure, scifi, documentary, or whatever I want.

Then you create a theater view that displays [Film Genre] at the top level.  You could also create a view that just shows you Film Genre=Documentary.

You could also have a separate field just for [TV Genre] if you like.  (Some people prefer to mix all their music/movie/tv genres together in the [Genre] tag, but I do not.)

You could also setup a view that will show you all videos of Genre=Documentary regardless of whether they are movies of TV shows.

What you want to do can absolutely be done.  Don't despair.

[maid]

I have Documentaries in standard view already with tags DN for new ones and DNa for ones we have watched.
These list as a TV show.
The one at the top of the list is a movie media type is video but to get it to list in theatre view I have to tag media sub type as TV as if I leave it as Movie it lists as unsigned I also have to put the movie title in the series list.

Attachment supplied

[RoderickGI]

Which field is being shown as "Unassigned"?
Post images of the View definition you are using in Theatre View. All dialogues.

[maid]

Series,
I have just worked out if I mark them movie they will display but they have to have the movie title in the series.

[RoderickGI]

Series,
I have just worked out if I mark them movie they will display but they have to have the movie title in the series.

I was expecting it to be Series.
Putting the movie title in the Series field isn't a very good solution. I can think of better ways to do this, but they may not be what you want.
Post the View definition.

[maid]

sorry to be so dumb but what is the view definition

[wer]

Right click on the view, select "customize view" and post screenshots of all the dialogs that follow so we can see.

Also, the plural of "Category" is spelled "Categories".  That bonus is provided at no extra charge. 

[RoderickGI]

Right click on the view, select "customize view" and post screenshots of all the dialogs that follow so we can see.

Actually, that would be the Standard View View definition.

Maid wants a Theatre View View, which would be "Options > Theatre View > Items to show" and the related dialogues.

But I take it from your question Maid that you haven't set up a special Documentaries View in Theatre View and are just using the Shows View?

Hey Will, no grammar checking! I was using "Category View" as a noun. 

[maid]

Hopefully this makes it a bit clearer

[wer]

Actually, that would be the Standard View View definition.

Ugh.  That's what happens when I come back to a thread later and only look at the last post.  (And Rod, the spell-check was for maid's screenshot, not you!)

Maid, have you read the post by Glynor that I linked to in my previous reply?

It explains all this, with screenshots.  It's discussing audio instead of video, but the concept is the same, and you can add or change whatever tag you need.

[maid]

yes I have read it and tried to create something, but I still cant figure out how to differentiate between a movie and a series

[RoderickGI]

Are you really trying to differentiate between movie and series documentaries, or just get them to display correctly together?

I built three different versions of Documentary Views including movies and TV shows. Which one do you prefer?

The first puts all documentaries together, names the Movies and Series correctly, and supports playback as you would expect. Select a Movie and you are shown the details, and can then Watch it. Select a TV Shows, and if it is a Series, MC drills down into the Seasons, which you can then drill down further into the Episodes, and hence to an Episode detail, and then Watch the program. That works in exactly the same way as all TV Series. i.e. If there is only one program in the Series, MC drops directly to that program. If there is only one Season, MC displays the list of Episodes in that Season. If there are multiple Seasons in the Series, MC displays the list of Seasons.

See the first image.

I call this solution "Documentaries Combined".

I'm going to split this into three posts as my images are too large for one. There will be a question for you in the last one Maid.


PS: Please excuse the rubbish data shown in these views. They are TV recordings that I haven't cleaned up.

[RoderickGI]

The second View splits the Movie and TV Show Documentaries out, so that you can select Movie or TV Show Documentaries as a group, and then select the specific program you want to watch. It uses sub-menu items as shown at the top of the display under the main menu. i.e. The "Movie Documentaries" and "TV Show Documentaries" menu items.

See the two attached images.

I call this solution "Documentaries Split".

[RoderickGI]

The third View groups the Documentaries together based on whether they are a Movie or TV Show/Series, and enables Drill Down to either category.

See the two attached images, where I show first the level with separate Movies and TV Shows headings, and then the second TV Show Documentary level.

I call this solution "Documentaries with Drill Down".

So Maid, which version do you prefer?

1. Documentaries Combined?
2. Documentaries Split?
3. Documentaries with Drill Down?

Let me know and I can explain how I have set up the one you like. You will need to interpret that a bit based on your DN/DNa methodology.

[wer]

yes I have read it and tried to create something, but I still cant figure out how to differentiate between a movie and a series

If I understood your original post, you'd like to see three different views:

A.  Regular movies, with no documentaries of any kind mixed in.
B.  Feature-length (movie) documentaries, with no documentary TV-show-series
C.  Documentary TV-show-series, by themselves.

If this correct, or do you want to combine B and C in a unified documentary view?

I'm away from my pc so can't do screenshots but Roderick seems willing to do some.

You just need to create "set rules for file display" for the 3 views you create.

View A would be media type is video, plus media subtype is movie, plus genre is not any documentary.

View B would be the same, except the last rule would be genre is any documentary.

View C would be media type is video, media subtype is tv show, genre is any documentary.

You could combine B and C in including both movie and tv show subtypes.

And make sure your files are tagged appropriately.

That's it!

[maid]

I like them both this has to work with my DN and DNA as this is how we look at new or watched media.

I think the split looks good

[RoderickGI]

Okay, I'm going to do this real quick with pictures Maid. It will take longer to describe than actually do!

First, backup your Library in case something goes wrong and you need to go back to what you had.

Then I suggest that you edit your existing "Documentaries" menu item in Theatre View, because you probably don't need to change much to set up the Split View I created.

Open "Options > Theatre View" and select your "Documentaries" item under "Items To Show", which is equivalent to my "Documentaries Split" item in the images.

Click "Set rules for display" and check the rules you have in place. Yours will include rules around your DN and DNa items, I assume. This is the level that you need your DN and DNa rules, not below this level. You don't have to change those rules, just ensure that you are only limiting the View to "[Media Type]=[Video]", and that you do not have any rules around [Media Sub Type]. We will add those at the lower level.

My rules for selecting documentaries are based on the standard metadata collected for TV Shows and Movies. I didn't need to add any custom fields or maintain any special values. The rules to select Documentaries is simply;

([Genre]=[Documentary] or [Keywords]=[Documentary])

Which simply means the file has a Genre of "Documentary" or a Keyword of "Documentary".

Note the or in the middle. The brackets () around the two rules define the relationship between the rules as an "OR" relationship, and not the default "AND" relationship.

Note that I have not tried to do anything about your DN and DNa method of identifying watched and unwatched programs. We will get to that later.

See the first attached image.



Next, add another menu level below the "Documentaries" level, of the type "Library Item". i.e. Select "Documentaries", click the Add button, and select "Library Item". Rename the new item to "Movie Documentaries". Make sure that this new level is "nested" below the "Documentaries" menu item, which is below the "Video" menu item. Use the Nest and Unnest, Move Up and Move Down buttons if required.

At this level, the only rules should be to select Movies. i.e. [Media Sub Type]=[Movie] Click "Set rules for file display" and add that simple rule.

See the second attached image.


Next, add another menu item at the second level. Select "Documentaries, click the Add button, and select "Library Item". Rename the new item to "TV Show Documentaries".

Again, the only rules should be to select TV Shows. i.e. [Media Sub Type]=[TV Show] Click "Set rules for file display" and add that simple rule.

See the third attached image.

Once done, continue on the next post.

[RoderickGI]

So, looking back at the last in image in the previous post, you will have noticed the "Series" and "Season" items in the "Details" side of the dialogue. Those are exactly the same as used in the standard "TV Shows" View in Theatre View.

So, click "Add" under the Details section to add a Category within the View, select an Expression Type item, name it "Series", and enter the expression;

TVInfo(SeriesDisplay)

You should be able to leave the other fields as defaults, as per the first image below.

Click OK to close the Category window, then click on the drop-down arrow to the right of the "Options" box near the bottom of the Options window, then untick both the "Display 'All' as a choice" and "Show search at file level" boxes, so that the "Options" box is now empty. See Arrow 3 in the first image below. Click Ok to save those last two choices and close the Options window. Those setting won't save unless you close the Options window entirely.



Re-open the MC Options window and navigate back to the "Options > Theatre View > TV Show Documentaries" menu item.

Basically, repeat that same as above to add the "Season" Category item. The expression will be;

TVInfo(SeasonDisplay)

See the second image below.

OK back out of the windows to get back to MC Standard View, and then go to Theatre View and see if it works for you.


Now, if you want help adding in your DN/DNa functionality, you are going to have to explain it to me.
Have you added new fields to make that work?
If so, what are the new fields?
If so, what values do you put into those fields, and what do they mean?

I suspect that the way you would add your DN/DNa functionality is to put it just below the "Documentaries" level in the menu structure, so that your navigation would go along the lines of;

Documentaries > select DN or DNa > Select "Movie Documentaries" or "TV Show Documentaries" > select a Movie, TV Show, or TV Series, etc.

There is a trick to adding the DN/DNa selection at the "Documentaries" level, which I will cover later, if required.

[maid]

Looks good I will try this tomorrow.

will this change the list as per my picture

I may have to look at my rules in the others also, looks like I may have done mine the hard way lol.

this one https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=121804.0;attach=32232

[RoderickGI]

If by list you mean the menu options, "Movies, TV Shows, Documentaries", you are in complete control of that.

You only need to follow my instructions for the Documentaries item. You don't have to duplicate the rest of my menu structure.

Your use of DN/DNa for watched status isn't included in the above, so you will need to work how to incorporate that. I am playing around with a Watched Status for some of my video Views, and it isn't working exactly as I wish. But it does work, using the watched() function. Your method for that status is probably simpler.

[maid]

thank you so much excellent description

[maid]

First attempt.
unless I have missed something the TV Documentaries is bringing in my TV shows..

[RoderickGI]

unless I have missed something the TV Documentaries is bringing in my TV shows..

That will be dependent on the metadata that you have for your TV Documentaries.

Remember, I am using [Genre] and [Keywords] to identify a program as a Documentary. If your non-Documentary TV Shows have the word "Documentary" in either of those fields, they will be included in your TV Documentaries.

My understanding so far of your DN and DNa solution is that it both identifies a program as a Documentary, and shows whether it has been watched or not. You should be using that solution to check if a program is a Documentary, not the [Genre] and [Keywords] fields. Well, that is if you wish to continue using the DN/DNa solution.

Perhaps explain exactly what the DN/DNa solution is, fields, values, expressions, and I might be able to comment further. I could integrate your solution with mine then.

[maid]

the DN simply lists all unwatched Docos the DNa is for ones we have watched.
JRiver does not have a reliable watched indicator that I have seen,  I found that my solution worked very well but even that failed when my computer decided not to list one of the drives, then when it did it brought everything in as new again such a pain in the but. lol

[RoderickGI]

the DN simply lists all unwatched Docos the DNa is for ones we have watched.

Yes but are DN and DNa custom fields in MC that you have created, or are they values you set in another custom field?

From your Standard View image above:


I think that you have created two custom fields, [Category] and [Sub Category], then you enter "Documentary" into the [Category] field for all documentaries, and enter "DN" into [Sub Category] for unwatched programs, and "DNa" into [Sub Category] for watched programs.

Then you have built Views using these two custom fields.

Is that all correct?

If you can confirm I will modify the expressions I used for my explanation above, so that they should work for you. Then you won't have to rely on metadata in the files, just your tagging of DN and DNa.


I am currently looking at implementing a Watched indicator on my HTPC, as I have just relied on the standard MC functionality, and haven't tried to filter views down to unwatched programs. I'd like to start doing that filtering. I have to agree that the watched indicator thing is a bit of a can of worms. I doesn't work perfectly, and while Glynor has documented a good solution, it is a little complicated to implement.

[maid]

correct they are custom fields pic if it helps

[RoderickGI]

G'Day Maid.

I made some time to get back to this a little. You may have already worked out the View you want, but here is some more information.

First, I actually added your [Category] and [Sub Category] fields to my Library and populated the [Category] field with "Documentary" based on existing [Genre] and [Keywords] fields, then populated the Documentary [Sub Category] field with DN or DNa based on whether the program had been watched or not, using the [Number Plays] field. So I have a sample of what you are doing in my Library now.

I then played around with a few different ways of incorporating your DN/DNa fields into a Theatre View, based on the Documentaries Split View I showed you above. It turns out that the simplest method is probably the best, but it combines the Split View concept with the Drill Down concept, because that is the way MC works.

So all you have to change from above explanation is the method used to select Documentaries, and then add in the [Sub Category] field to the View Details.

See the first attached image. The rules to select Documentaries now becomes;
[Media Type]=[Video] [Category]="Documentary"

For Movie Documentaries, add in the [Sub Category] field to the View Details. See the second attached image.

For TV Show Documentaries do the same thing, adding in the [Sub Category] field to the View Details, above the "Series" and "Season" items. See the third attached image.

That's it. That will give you a "Documentaries" top level (called "Documentaries Split" in my example images), in which you select either "Movie Documentaries" or "TV Show Documentaries" using the top menu. Then you will have two icons which are multiple program images, labelled "DN" and "DNa". Select the one you want to watch, DN for unwatched programs, DNa for watched programs, just like you use now.

An image showing what it looks like for Movies will be on the next post. I can't fit any more images on this one.

[RoderickGI]

Example of what it looks like. See the first image.


Now, if you don't like that and really just want to use top level menu items without any drill down, you could create four level two Library Item in the View definition, like this;

{Unwatched Movie Documentaries}  {Unwatched TV Show Documentaries}  {Watched Movie Documentaries}  {Watched TV Show Documentaries} 

Then just add the [Sub Category] watched criteria into the "set rules for file display" settings, and remove the [Sub Category] from the View Details.

See the second attached image for what that would look like.

Finally, see the third attached image to see what the "set rules for file display" should look like. Take note that the View Details area is now empty.

As you can see, MC is pretty powerful and flexible in what it can do, but it also has specific ways that things are done. You just need to choose exactly what you want, within the constraints.

Let me know how you go with all that. I must admit, I kind of like the last idea using no drill-downs best, even if it does make a long list of top menu items.

[maid]

Hi Roderick,

Such a lot of work I soo appreciate this.

I am trying to use the parameters that you have set, but somehow I have lost a step.

The movies and the tv now both display the same thing ??

[RoderickGI]

Suggestion: View this post with your browser maximised, so that you can see the information below without the text line-wrapping.


Which version of the View are you trying to implement? The one that includes a Drill-Down for DN/DNa, or the one I described in my last post that only uses the top menu?

Regardless, it is the "Set rules for file display" setting that defines what is included in the View, so you should check each level in the View hierarchy to see that only the required parameters are included. Note that if you set the  [Media Sub Type] for both Movies and TV Shows to be included at the "Documentaries Split" level, then that applies to the lower, "Movie Documentaries" and "TV Show Documentaries".

==============================================================================================================

So for the "Documentaries Split" version I posted;

Level in View Hierarchy                            Rules in "Set rules for file display" as shown in the Import/Export dialogue
{Documentaries}                                     [Media Type]=[Video] [Category]="Documentary"
    {Movie Documentaries}                        [Media Sub Type]=[Movie]
    {TV Show Documentaries}                   [Media Sub Type]=[TV Show]


Level in View Hierarchy                            The View Detail window should include
{Documentaries}                                     The Details window isn't available at this level
    {Movie Documentaries}                        [Sub Category] as a selected Library field
    {TV Show Documentaries}                   [Sub Category] as a selected Library field, plus "Series" with expression TVInfo(SeriesDisplay), and "Season" with expression TVInfo(SeasonDisplay)


==============================================================================================================

So for the last version I posted in my last post, which I shall now call the "Documentaries Menu" version


Level in View Hierarchy                            Rules in "Set rules for file display" as shown in the Import/Export dialogue
{Documentaries}                                       [Media Type]="Video" [Category]="Documentary"
    {Unwatched Movie Documentaries}         [Media Sub Type]=[Movie] [Sub Category]=[DN]
    {Unwatched TV Show Documentaries}     [Media Sub Type]=[TV Show] [Sub Category]=[DN]
    {Watched Movie Documentaries}             [Media Sub Type]=[Movie] [Sub Category]=[DNa]
    {Watched TV Show Documentaries}        [Media Sub Type]=[TV Show] [Sub Category]=[DNa]


Level in View Hierarchy                            The View Detail window should include
{Documentaries}                                       The Details window isn't available at this level
    {Unwatched Movie Documentaries}         Nothing
    {Unwatched TV Show Documentaries}     "Series" with expression TVInfo(SeriesDisplay), and "Season" with expression TVInfo(SeasonDisplay)
    {Watched Movie Documentaries}             Nothing
    {Watched TV Show Documentaries}        "Series" with expression TVInfo(SeriesDisplay), and "Season" with expression TVInfo(SeasonDisplay)


==============================================================================================================

Does that help?

PS: It does take way longer to document these Views than to create and experiment with them. But it's not too bad. I don't modify my Views, but create new ones and try different versions that way. I'm hoping that by showing you different possibilities you, and other readers, will understand how the View work, and can build and tweak you won Views in future. 

[maid]

I will be using  "Documentaries Split" version,

I will try this tomorrow, got a full day today..

Thanks again

[RoderickGI]

I've been playing around with creating YouTube videos, so I made one just for you, and your requirements.

Take a look, if you wish: https://youtu.be/uJhm7RXX1Yo

[maid]

thank you sooooo much, I could not have done this without the video as I had no idea about expressions.
Took me about 10 mins with the video thank you thank you, its brilliant

I think I may need to replicate this in standard view next.

[maid]

Hi RoderickGI

Here we go again, hubby does not use my new split system.
Could you possibly explain how to do the "Documentaries Combined".
I got some of it done but the movie docos are not showing up and I think my rules are not quite right..
 

[RoderickGI]

I'm a bit busy at the moment Maid. Maybe late this week I could get back up to speed and explain how to do it. Not sure.

[maid]

excellent thanks

[maid]

Hi RoderikGi,

Tried to set up the doco with no luck,
Trying to figure out how to show which are movies and which are TV.
I just cant figure it out unless I put some sort of size