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[IAM4UK]

My primary PC that runs MC 25 sends its signal via HDMI to a Marantz SR-7013 AVR, which sends the video to an LG OLED panel with 3840x2160 resolution. I have the AVR setup to pass the video signal through without scaling or "enhancement." I would like to rely on the OLED for scaling, so I would like for MC to send "native" signals from various content I play.
To get this result (and so far, I've failed), I have tried "Options/Video/Display Settings/Display Settings automatic change mode" set to "On" and also set to "Custom" with various settings per type. But there aren't enough types specified for the kinds of content I play, so "Custom" doesn't yield usable results. (For example, FILM [23.976 fps] comes in at least two resolutions for my content [1080p and 2160p], but there's only one such setting selectable.) And "On" doesn't work for "...automatic change mode." Also, curiously, although I have "NTSC (29.97/59.94 fps)" set to "1920x1080 at 59 fps," that setting is ignored whenever I play NTSC cable television content...MC upconverts it to 3840x2160.

Any ideas how I can achieve the desired result of "native" signal from PC through AVR to OLED, where it's finally scaled to the fixed-pixel display resolution of that panel?

[BryanC]

In this case wouldn't you just want to lock the panel at 4K and disable Automatic Change Mode altogether?

If not, you can use custom madvr profile rules to achieve your desired result.

[wer]

I have a similar setup to you, with an LG OLED.  I don't do much 4k however.

Your desire to have the LG do the scaling is understandable, as the scaler is very good.  However, after having done quite a lot of testing during the setup of my system, I would recommend you make one change in your thinking.

My suggestion is that you let MadVR do the scaling for NTSC content.  With the proper settings and the more advanced scaling options turned on, you will get a much better final image with MadVR scaling than sending it untouched to the LG.  To do this you set the output resolution for NTSC to be 1080 (or 2160 if you prefer).

As far as 1080 vs 2160 auto switching for your HD vs 4k content, I believe you have something of a catch-22.  As you have seen, MC is a bit deficient here, and does not allow separate settings for 4k vs 1080p, since it only has one setting for the 23.976 framerate.  I wish JRiver would improve this.

So I think the only way you can achieve what you want is to have MadVR do the resolution changing.  The rub is that JRiver has historically advised against this because that capability does not work reliably inside MC.

You can refer to the link Bryan gave you to try and set that up, but I don't use it so I'm not very familiar with it.

[rec head]

I have a 2016 LG OLED and madVR scaling is so much better. On some content it doesn't matter but dark scenes are night and day with madVR being a very obvious improvement.

Maybe yours is newer and better.

[IAM4UK]

Thanks for the replies. My OLED is also 2016 model (and I use the 3D capability, so it's about the best TV for me...)

I will dig into the madVR options. One other consideration is that even though I use Certified 18Gbps HDMI cables, I see some sparkles if I send 2160p upconverted content from the PC.

Since y'all are obviously well-informed, I'll ask another related question that probably is not an MC thing:  When I watch HDR content via MC, all content I watch after that is played back as if it were HDR, even if it's not. Rebooting the computer is the only way to reset that; simply restarting MC isn't enough. Thoughts?

[tij]

I am not sure its possible to send "native" 4:2:0 to TV … if madVR is used, then madVR will at least do chroma up sampling to 4:4:4

But assuming you don't care about chroma up sampling … keep switching resolution from 1080p to 2160p to PAL/NTSC will play havoc with you DPI settings (change the size if text, and other items) unless you set it at 100%

If you truly want to send "untouched" signal to TV … you can set your MC output Zone to your TV (LG OLED are DLNA renderers if connected to network)

As for madVR scaling vs LG scaling … it really depends on GPU your PC has … IMHO madVR more advance scaling algorithm do produce better results but need good GPU (my 2016 LG does do good scaling) … but honestly, I don't think I can tell difference in double blind test lol (what I like about madVR is adjustment I can make VS total no control of LG process)

[tij]

Since y'all are obviously well-informed, I'll ask another related question that probably is not an MC thing:  When I watch HDR content via MC, all content I watch after that is played back as if it were HDR, even if it's not. Rebooting the computer is the only way to reset that; simply restarting MC isn't enough. Thoughts?

That sounds like HDR getting stuck after playback … and Windows colors looks super saturated after that

You need to update Windows to fix that … don't remember which version though

Also, what GPU you use?

[wer]

If you truly want to send "untouched" signal to TV … you can set your MC output Zone to your TV (LG OLED are DLNA renderers if connected to network)

Ah of course, I had forgotten.  Tij is quite correct.  You can use Zoneswitch to send different video files to different zones (zone=output configuration) based on whatever rules you want, so you can have 1080 output in one zone and 2160 in the other.  That would allow you to do it without relying on madvr mode switching.

I still recommend letting madvr do the NTSC upscaling.

[tij]

I will dig into the madVR options.

Before you dig into madVR … you need to understand a bit how it works.

Unlike PC (where your picture is broken down to Red Green Blue … aka RGB), video distribution is broken down to YCbCr (Y is the luma component and Cb and Cr are the blue-difference and red-difference chroma components … basically Y is greyscale image, and Cb and Cr carry color information)

video distribution is done in 4:2:0 … basically color components are provided at lower resolution (only 25% … see attached picture)

So steps to display 4:2:0 are

(1) up sample chroma to 4:4:4
(2) scale image to final resolution … which involve scaling luma and chroma to final resolution … always use better algorithm for luma scaling

thing to keep in mind … sometimes its more efficient to overscale by using doubling or quadrupling then downscale to final desired resolution (there are options in MadVR for that)

When video is playing … press CTR+J to display madVR menu … from there you can see how long MadVR takes to process you settings … processing time should be less than fps or you will have frame drops (if you doing scaling for 23.97fps … your processing should take less than 1/23.97 = 0.0417s = 41.7ms … aim for 75%-80% of that to give you some head room)

MadVR can be set up to apply different algorithms depending on content resolution and/or frame rate … but that's another topic

[tij]

Also … madVR does not do deinterlacing … and MC "hides" deinterlacing options which can be set in LAV filter

I have PAL DVDs of Simpsons and Futurama … theoretically, if PAL was mastered properly, deinterlacing PAL should be easier … but Futurama and Simpsons PAL DVDs were terribly mastered … in this case LG did a better deinterlacing job than MC (less combing effects … not sure if MC would have done better if I had access to deinterlacing options) … in the end, I just hunted down second hand NTSC DVDs for Simpsons and Futurama and MC performed on par with LG on deinterlacing

[rec head]

OP - I agree about the 2016 TV. 3D is why I have it too. A great TV but my 1060 GPU+madVR upscale much better in some circumstances. Normal bright scenes look fine upscaled by the TV. My go to for checking settings are certain HD GoT scenes. In dark scenes or gray snowy scenes the TV upscaling has a lot of banding. MadVR looks great.

I had the sparkles problem. Your TV or PC is not set up properly. My problem was that the TV switches into HDR mode after you start an HDR movie so TV settings changes that I was making while looking at the desktop weren't affecting my HDR mode.

What I had to do was while playing HDR content go into the TV settings and change the Black Level to High. Sorry I don't remember exactly where that setting is. It was a long time before I found out that Black Level wasn't just a picture setting but changing from PC levels (0-255) to TV levels (16-235). You may need to readjust your picture settings after that.

Then in the madVR settings under Devices -> Display -> Properties select PC Levels (0-255).

Then set your GPU to RGB Full.

Here are some links I found helpful:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1271416#post1271416
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175&pid=2739438#pid2739438


I also have the problem of sticking in HDR mode if I "back" (hitting the back button) out of a movie instead of hitting "stop". It doesn't matter for other content so I never paid attention to what button on my remote I used. Your solution may be that simple. When I make the mistake of backing out I just play an HDR movie and hit stop.

[tij]

i probably mention this before ... still ... i have 2 2016 OLED ... C6 and E6

my local store still have 2 3D LG 65” TV on demos (LED ones) ... considered grabbing those ... but 40% discount on 2016 model that was standing there all thise 3 years playing demo content night and day ... was not enough ... gimme 60% discount ... and i will take those too lol

[IAM4UK]

Y'all are so helpful! Thanks... (I still haven't got this set as I wish, but I am on a path...)

RE:  What GPU?  nVidia GTX 1660 with 6GB DDR5 memory

[tij]

Y'all are so helpful! Thanks... (I still haven't got this set as I wish, but I am on a path...)

RE:  What GPU?  nVidia GTX 1660 with 6GB DDR5 memory

yup ... gpu (graphic processing unit) ... 1660 is more than enough for 4k

[IAM4UK]

yup ... gpu (graphic processing unit) ... 1660 is more than enough for 4k

Ctrl+J reveals that with madVR using Jinc scaling (I think that got set by choosing MC Options/Video/General/RO HQ and Quality Setting "Best Quality") the maximum time for scaling/processing a frame is just under 20 ms. So, I have some "headroom" there. I suppose if I asked people's preferred madVR settings, I'd get many different opinions...

[rec head]

You can setup profiles in madVR for different scenarios and types of content but you shouldn't worry about it. Watch some movies and if they look good you're done. If they don't look as good as they did being upscaled by the TV or you see banding or something then start digging into settings. I can't remember if MC's high quality setting takes HDR or 3D into account. You will need to change those.

It will be more important to get all the devices setup properly. Full RGB all the way.

[IAM4UK]

Almost all is working now. LG OLED E6 set to Black Level = High cured the sparkles, and it was easy to tweak the OLED light and brightness settings to compensate for the slight change that caused. Kept "Jinc" in madVR, but also asked madVR to reduce Banding and Ringing. Still processing within 25ms per frame. Setup nvidia driver that was the last WHQL before 430 (I think). 3D works, and I guess I'll just have to undo automatic driver updates that foul that up...

The MC Options/Video/Display Settings Automatic... is set to "On" rather than "Custom" now, and that works for all but one issue:  HDR still kicks in on SDR content after having played an actual HDR source. Reboot is still required to reset that. Win10 is updated as far as it will acknowledge.

[Manfred]

I have also LG 2016 OLED. I have set in the madVR settings under devices-> LG..->hdr: passthrough HDR content to the display.
I have two SDR schemes (light room, dark room) and one HDR scheme defined on my LG OLED. LG OLED automatically switches to HDR mode if HDR content is played.
I have disabled Display settings automatic change mode and use custom settings.

[tij]

What’s your window version ... can run winver command to see exact version (sometimes you need to do manual update for major update like creator fall update)

[IAM4UK]

What’s your window version ... can run winver command to see exact version (sometimes you need to do manual update for major update like creator fall update)

Version 1903 Build 18362.295

[tij]

In windows settings for display ... did you turn off HDR (it should be  turn off ... let madVR turn HDR on/off when needed ... madVR will use NVidia HDR instead of Windows)