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[Ripper]

Hi.  Can JRiver play music to Sonos?  I can't figure out how to configure it to do so.  I want to do this because Sonos has a 65,000-track limit, and I was hoping that I could somehow use JRiver Media Center or an iPhone application to push the music to Sonos.  I would like to be able to use JRiver's search functions so that I do not have to manually browse for a given track, artist, album, etc.

Thanks for any help.

Edit: I have figured out how to play sound from JRiver Media Center and from the JRiver iPhone application, but the sound sometimes just stops playing.  Are there certain settings needed to prevent the audio from randomly stopping?  It seems like the sound stops when I attempt to play a high-resolution format that Sonos cannot play, such as 96-KHz FLAC files.  Within JRiver MediaCenter there is an option to automatically downsample to 44- or 48-KHz, but I don't see that option on the iPhone application.  I do see "Audio transcode quality" in the iPhone app's settings, but the highest quality it offers is 320 Kbps.  Is there a way to make it automatically play everything at 44 KHz/16 bit without degrading the audio?

And is there a setting to make the playing of audio bit perfect?

Also, when I play in multiple zones, it seems out of sync.  Can that be fixed?

Finally (I hope), if I run MediaCenter from a different computer than the one serving the music, the second (nonserver) computer can't find Sonos.  Is there a way to fix it so that I can run MediaCenter from multiple computers at the same time?


Thanks.

[AndrewFG]

MC can push to Sonos players. But they are very quirky. Download the renderer database from the link in my sig; there are a couple of Sonos entries in that database that should give you an idea of their capabilities..

[Ripper]

Thank you.  I ran the Media Renderer Analyser on JRiver's media renderer.  I tried to copy the recommended settings for MC Server Settings.  I also tried to set the recommended settings for FLAC files (but found only the buttons for audio mode and audio format).  Is there anything else I should do with the data?

I will now run it on a couple of the Sonos renderers, but I am not sure whether the results for the Sonos renderers should prevail of the results for the JRiver renderer.

I appreciate your help.

[JimH]

If you're trying to play to the Sonos, it's their renderer that matters.

[Ripper]

I see.  It is running now tagged to one of the Sonos renderers.  There appear to be multiple Sonos renderers, however (some appearing to have similar names for the same zone), so how do I know which renderer's results to pick?  Thanks.

[ssands]

I've had sporadic luck using MC to send music to my Sonos system. For me, the big driver has been the transcoding, as I have some hi-res files that sonos won't natively play.

I've found it sometimes cuts out.

Also, If I tried to play to more than one sonos renderer, they were not in sync, so that didn't sound very good.

Haven't really spent too much time on it, but would love to hear your results.
On my system, each sonos renderer is a different room. We named them by room so they are easy to identify.

[AndrewFG]

As Jim mentioned, MC can push to a Sonos Play device but not to a Sonos Connect device.
Below is the DMRA test log for a Sonos Play.

You need to set MC's DLNA Server Advanced settings as shown in the report.

Theoretically you can use MC to push native or transcoded audio to it using any of the formats starting with http-get:*: but it is not specific about its limitations on bit depth or sample rate, so it is best to assume a limitation to CD quality only.

One notable exception is that it CANNOT play L16, which means that although it is UPnP capable, it is NOT DLNA capable. Therefore if you want MC to push hi-res audio at CD quality, then do not set MC for L16 No Header, but rather set PCM with header (aka WAV) instead.

By the way it can support gapless play.

But as you mentioned, one of the weaknesses of UPnP v1 is that it is rather weak on multi room synchronization.

DMR Report (by Whitebear) for Sonos PLAY:3
==========================================

Device Description Url=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/device_description.xml
HTTP Server Header=Linux UPnP/1.0 Sonos/27.2-80271 (ZPS3)
Description=Sonos PLAY:3
Friendly Name=199.242.131.207 - Sonos PLAY:3
Manufacturer Name=Sonos, Inc.
Manufacturer Url=http://www.sonos.com
Model Name=Sonos PLAY:3
Model Number=S3
Model Url=http://www.sonos.com/products/zoneplayers/S3
UPnP Device Type=urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:ZonePlayer:1
UPnP Media Renderer version=1
Unique Device Name=uuid:RINCON_B8E93730EDE801400
Service Url for AlarmClock=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/AlarmClock1.xml
Service Url for MusicServices=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/MusicServices1.xml
Service Url for DeviceProperties=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/DeviceProperties1.xml
Service Url for SystemProperties=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/SystemProperties1.xml
Service Url for ZoneGroupTopology=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/ZoneGroupTopology1.xml
Service Url for GroupManagement=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/GroupManagement1.xml
Service Url for ContentDirectory=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/ContentDirectory1.xml
Service Url for ConnectionManager=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/ConnectionManager1.xml
Service Url for RenderingControl=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/RenderingControl1.xml
Service Url for AVTransport=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/AVTransport1.xml
Service Url for GroupRenderingControl=http://199.242.131.207:1400/xml/GroupRenderingControl1.xml
AVT:SetNextAVTransportURI (gapless play)=Supported
AVT:SyncPlay (synchronous play)=Feature not available on this DMR version
RC:GetVolume action=Supported
RC:SetVolume action=Supported
HTTP User Agent (client)=Sonos
Play test file result=Play success => Start Ok / Stop Ok


Media Center DLNA Server Advanced Settings
==========================================

DLNA=no
DLNAExtra=no
Enable bitrate Field=no
Filter international characters=Checked
Include session Id=no
Playstation 3 compatible=no
Present Caption Resources=no
Present Small Artwork=no
Present Subtitle Resources=no
Skip child count=Checked
Use flat URLs=Checked
Use full URLs instead of relative URLs=Checked
WMC compatible=no
MPEG video mimetvpe override=tbd / per track setting
Video MimeType Override=tbd / per track setting
Video DLNA Override=tbd / per track setting


Declared Supported Audio, Image & Video Formats
===============================================

http-get:*:audio/mp3:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/mp3:*
http-get:*:audio/mp4:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/mp4:*
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/mpeg:*
http-get:*:audio/mpegurl:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/mpegurl:*
real.com-rhapsody-http-1-0:*:audio/mpegurl:*
file:*:audio/mpegurl:*
http-get:*:audio/mpeg3:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/mpeg3:*
http-get:*:audio/wav:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/wav:*
http-get:*:audio/wma:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/wma:*
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
http-get:*:audio/aiff:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/aiff:*
http-get:*:audio/flac:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/flac:*
http-get:*:application/ogg:*
x-file-cifs:*:application/ogg:*
http-get:*:audio/audible:*
x-file-cifs:*:audio/audible:*
real.com-rhapsody-http-1-0:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
real.com-rhapsody-direct:*:audio/mp3:*
sonos.com-mms:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
sonos.com-http:*:audio/mpeg3:*
sonos.com-http:*:audio/mpeg:*
sonos.com-http:*:audio/wma:*
sonos.com-http:*:audio/mp4:*
sonos.com-http:*:audio/wav:*
sonos.com-http:*:audio/aiff:*
sonos.com-http:*:audio/flac:*
sonos.com-http:*:application/ogg:*
sonos.com-spotify:*:audio/x-spotify:*
sonos.com-rtrecent:*:audio/x-sonos-recent:*
real.com-rhapsody-http-1-0:*:audio/x-rhap-radio:*
real.com-rhapsody-direct:*:audio/x-rhap-radio:*
pandora.com-pndrradio:*:audio/x-pandora-radio:*
pandora.com-pndrradio-http:*:audio/mpeg3:*
sirius.com-sirradio:*:audio/x-sirius-radio:*
x-rincon:*:*:*
x-rincon-mp3radio:*:*:*
x-rincon-playlist:*:*:*
x-rincon-queue:*:*:*
x-rincon-stream:*:*:*
x-sonosapi-stream:*:*:*
x-sonosapi-hls:*:*:*
x-sonosapi-radio:*:audio/x-sonosapi-radio:*
x-rincon-cpcontainer:*:*:*
last.fm-radio:*:audio/x-lastfm-radio:*
last.fm-radio-http:*:audio/mpeg3:*

[ssands]

Thanks for this, Andrew.

I'm still learning a lot about this, but how would L16 support have looked, if it was supported?

A challenge for me is knowing the differences (and usages) of L16 (header and no header), vs. PCM w/header (which I didn't realize is .wav).

Thanks for your utility - it's pretty cool.

[blgentry]

As Jim mentioned, MC can push to a Sonos Play device but not to a Sonos Connect device.

Hmm, that's unexpected.  I don't know much about the Sonos ecosystem, but they advertise them as all being equal type units.  The Connect just has RCA outputs and one input I think, and is designed as a component to plug in to a stereo, as opposed to a standalone speaker.  What makes the Connect different from MC's point of view?

I was recently thinking of recommending a Sonos system to a friend who is also interested in MC21 after seeing mine in action.  I want to make sure I can give him good information.

But as you mentioned, one of the weaknesses of UPnP v1 is that it is rather weak on multi room synchronization.

You can use Sonos' built in sync though right?  Say you have Sonos A and Sonos B.  You tell MC21 to play to Sonos A as a zone.  Then you use the Sonos app and tell it to play Sonos B using Sonos A as a source.  This is my understanding after reading documentation, but not owning any Sonos I haven't been able to try it myself.

Thanks,

Brian.

[Ferdi]

The Sonos Play-5 has got a line-in connector (there's another Sonos device, I think the Connect). The line-in appears in the Sonos app as one of the music services as soon as a play-5 is added to the Sonos network. It's native Sonos functionality, i.e., playing to different rooms etc is fully supported.
Once you connect, for example, an Airport Express to your Sonos you can stream via JRemote.

Advantages:

• no 65k song limit on Sonos
• volume can be controlled via iDevice, even if the Sonos app is not active
• you can play from others sources, e.g., YouTube
• you can enjoy JRemote with all the advantages over the Sonos app

Next step for me:

• use DLNA renderer instead of Airport Express, so that JRiver can be set up to transcode HiRes files to a format playable on Sonos (what's an affordable solution for that?)

I am pretty sure that true audiophiles find that too much streaming and too much transcoding might happen in the whole process: But I am pretty happy with my setup for now. (the only other way to circumvent the 60k limit seems to be SubSonic, a server that can be installed on NAS etc appears as Music Service in Sonos. Cumbersome to set up and has to be controlled through the Sonos app, pretty poor navigation options).

[MarkCoutinho]

Sounds hopeful! Thanks for sharing!

[paul45]

Hi, I've managed to get MC pushing music from my library to Sonos Connect.  However I listen to some radio stations and I can't get these to play on Sonos.  I have an Auralic Aries and this works fine with the Aries, I can push a web stream to that using MC, no problem.  Any ideas on how to get Sonos to accept a web stream from MC?

[AndrewFG]

You probably can't do it. I guess when you push the stream to the Aries you are pushing an m3u playlist. And it looks from the renderer report that the Sonos does not support m3u files..

[clpetersen]

I've had sporadic luck using MC to send music to my Sonos system. For me, the big driver has been the transcoding, as I have some hi-res files that sonos won't natively play.

I've found it sometimes cuts out.

Also, If I tried to play to more than one sonos renderer, they were not in sync, so that didn't sound very good.

Similar results pushing to Sonos. I have Sonos and JRiver pointed to the same library - JRiver is the curator of course. The motivation was the same - transcoding some hi-res files.  In the end I made 'redbook' (44.1/16) copies. However, I could not make a copy that could be read by Sonos using JRiver though I tried several settings. Using XLD I was able to transcode successfully.  Any thoughts on this?
Overall, I concluded - use the Sonos app to play through Sonos.  Too bad JRemote is so much better....

[AndrewFG]

I think your best best is to set the MC server to always convert to 16 bit PCM with header (aka WAV).

Note: This is contrary to my normal recommendation. In DLNA the default "must support" format is PCM L16 no header. But Sonos is not DLNA compliant and it does not support that. However it does support WAV.

[paul45]

You probably can't do it. I guess when you push the stream to the Aries you are pushing an m3u playlist. And it looks from the renderer report that the Sonos does not support m3u files..

Actually what I now realize is that Sonos and MC use two different URLs.  I recall that MC will not open the "playlists" URL but Sonos will.  MC requires the "servers" URL for some reason.  Any ideas why this is the case?  I'd really love to cut the cord to the Sonos app and use JRemote exclusively, but this is preventing me from doing that.  See below for more info.

[From the RadioTunes website, I removed my listen key so note that the link will not work]

Playlist => SONOS

Use this address if your hardware player supports playlists.

http://listen.radiotunes.com/premium_high/tophits.pls?listen_key=xxx

Servers => MC

Choose one or more of these addresses if your hardware player requires server information.

http://prem3.radiotunes.com:80/tophits_hi?xxx

[AndrewFG]

I believe that MC should be able to push a .pls to the Sonos. Try creating a local .pls file on disk that contains the link to the remote audio content stream. And then get MC to push that file to the Sonos.

[paul45]

I believe that MC should be able to push a .pls to the Sonos. Try creating a local .pls file on disk that contains the link to the remote audio content stream. And then get MC to push that file to the Sonos.

Ok managed to create the .pls file via a text file.  When I try to push it out to the Sonos i get a msg "there was a problem controlling to the selected DLNA device. Double check device, server, and DLNA settings."

Any ideas?

[AndrewFG]

No. I am afraid not.

[broncodan]

Can someone please tell me how this information can be used to get my Sonos to play? 

I see the Sonos media renderer in my list but have little luck getting things to play from it.  If I select a single song, album or playlist - right click it - select - SEND TO, to PLAY TO SONOS renderer - It plays to my computer I get no sound from my SONOS - BUT if I say send to PLAY WITH PLAYDOCTOR - it works.

I think I am missing something really easy but can't figure it out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If I get this resolved does anyone know if I will I be able to play to the SONOS device through JREMOTE - or is that not possible? 

Thanks.

[AndrewFG]

Try my prior post http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99784.msg713286#msg713286

[milehigh]

Hi Andrew,

I guess that is the problem.  I don't really understand your prior post - you indicate the following:

You need to set MC's DLNA Server Advanced settings as shown in the report.

Theoretically you can use MC to push native or transcoded audio to it using any of the formats starting with http-get:*: but it is not specific about its limitations on bit depth or sample rate, so it is best to assume a limitation to CD quality only.

One notable exception is that it CANNOT play L16, which means that although it is UPnP capable, it is NOT DLNA capable. Therefore if you want MC to push hi-res audio at CD quality, then do not set MC for L16 No Header, but rather set PCM with header (aka WAV) instead.

I don't understand where these settings are supposed to be changed or updated.  

[mwheelerk]

I've resurrected this older topic with this question. I've been able to use JRiver/JRemote to play through my Sonos Play5's with Sonos Sub but I believe it is using the Sonos playback software rather than JRiver as I cannot adjust any audio settings with JRiver /JRemote other than volume. Is there a way to use JRiver superior playback?

[JimH]

If you're playing to a Sonos, it's probably using DLNA / UPnP.  Search here for "DSP over DLNA".

[AndrewFG]

As I recall it, for Sonos you need to set MC DLNA server audio settings to always convert to PCM with header (the normal PCM no header aka L16 is not supported by Sonos). And then set MCs DLNA server audio advanced to use whatever Digital Signal Processing you want to apply..

[MOConnor9512]

Yes it can, I downloaded the JRemote app onto my phone, it sees all the Sonos amps and connects, I simply select one of them (Zones) and it plays everything including the JRiver Playlists which one has over 17,000 tracks on it, very pleased and the app was only $13.99 Cndn. bought through iTunes and now on my iPhone and iPads in the house.