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[MOConnor9512]

Given the mass appeal and huge market share SONOS has, when will you have a formal fit with them ? Will that be part of MC26, if it you will have a ton of new customers as this is desired by almost everyone out there.

M

[AndrewFG]

MC can already push to Sonos renderers. (Just make sure MC is set to NOT convert to PCM No Header aka L16).

[dtc]

MC can play to individual Sonos speakers, but that does not use the Sonos system to sync the speakers. That looses a major advantage of Sonos.  Given the Sonos model of many distributed speakers playing in sync, non-synced audio is often not very useful in a Sonos setup.

In my house where I have a Sonos setup, I have resorted to using the Sonos app connected to my music files, which are managed by MC, but played back through Sonos. The Sonos app is not nearly as functional as MC, but it is the only way to play the music in sync.

There was a recent thread on the Sonos controller not seeing the MC DNLA server. That would help the problem, but apparently will not happen because of a deficiency in the Sonos implementation.  Other players have gotten it to work, but MC is not one of them.

[Ferdi]

Correct - playing to individual Sonos speakers works. That individual speaker can then be grouped with other Sonos speakers using the Sonos app, which would play in-sync using the Sonos technology. I only use JRemote to play my local music.

So while this works, there's inconveniences to it:

• Playing to a stereo-paired set of Sonos speakers breaks the pairing: that is why, in MC, I have removed all 'play to' devices (zones) except for an individual Sonos speaker that I have dedicated for this purpose.
• In JRemote, I can't start playing a song locally (iPhone) and then switch the zone to the Sonos speaker: nothing would play. I always need to fiddle around a bit until it plays. I am usually a bit annoyed by the time it works   The burden is a bit less now: In the past, used to stream MC to my phone while on the road. I only use Spotify for this now, therefore can set JRemote to default to the Sonos speaker, as my exclusive zone.

[tij]

Why not get Sonos Port … connect MC to it and MC is part of Sonos ecosystem … that thing supports Aiplay2 too

Personally I think Sonos locks you to their system hard … very expensive to expand …  and divorcing it if you don't like it is expensive too as need to redo whole system

PS. controlling Sonos from MC is not easy as it is proprietary system

[Ferdi]

Not sure what difference the Sonos Port would make, when I try to play to Sonos speakers?

I just tried fiddling with JRemote and Sonos again. it took a few minutes of silence and a frustrated switch to Spotify until, all of the sudden, the tune that I picked on JRemote started to play. Somehow I feel that I maneuvered myself out of the target group for MC with my choice of Sonos.

[dtc]

Why not get Sonos Port … connect MC to it and MC is part of Sonos ecosystem … that thing supports Aiplay2 too

Yes, the Port would work but it is far from an ideal solution. Port connects analog signals to Sonos speakers. I do not have any analog signals.   To use it with MC, I would need a separate D/A.  The Port then does an A/D conversion before sending it to the speakers for another D/A conversion. Not ideal along with the $400 price of the Port plus the price of a D/A.

PS. controlling Sonos from MC is not easy as it is proprietary system

As discussed in the other thread, other players have figured out how to allow connections to MC from the Sonos app.  MC does not have that option.

Yes, Sonos is proprietary. But it provides a solution that is very hard to produce with a traditional system - whole house audio that is always in sync. I have one house with wires in all the walls and music throughout the house. But, I build that house and put the wiring in for not much money. My other house has no wiring in it, so I have to either put wires it the wall or come up with a wireless solution. Sonos was the easiest way to do that.   With Sonos I loose the eloquence and functionality of MC, but I gain an easy to install and expand system, and the ability to easily integrate streaming systems like Tidal and Amazon and Spotify. More and more people are taking that route, for exactly the same reasons.

[tij]

Jim did mention that it was on their possible agenda to intergrate with Sonos and their investigating what can be done

Port also support Airplay2 … and as JRemote can output to Airplay, Sonos will be receiving digital at least 44.1/16 (not sure need higher quality for just background listening … and that's the limit of Sonos anyway)

@Ferdi … basically Port can receive Airplay2 … and then that stream is inside Sonos system ready to distributed within Sonos system (sadly no digital in) … its insanely expensive for what it is too

Anybody tried Yamaha MulticastMusicCast? … seems cheaper than Sonos

[dtc]

Anybody tried Yamaha Multicast? … seems cheaper than Sonos

I have not done a full comparison, but prices do not seem that much different than Sonos.   MusicCast speakers seem to be similarly priced to Sonos speakers, with the basic speaker priced around $200.

MusicCast has nice options for traditional components, like receivers and amplifiers, but most people no longer  use the Sonos amps and connects for new installations. It is pretty much wireless powered speakers and a phone/tablet app.  For that, I am not sure Yamaha has much advantage over Sonos, although I would be happy to be educated on that.

[tij]

At least on paper … MusicCast supports Hi-Res stuff (though not sure its advantage on tabletop speakers)  … DSD to one zone …

dedicated multiroom amp looks good on paper XDA-QS5400RK with Airplay2 support

WXC-50 streaming amplifier is also DLNA render … so can be played to directly from JRiver as zone

Price wise … I was actually thinking in term of integrating other components … Sonos Port seems more expensive than WXC-50 which support DSD and has digital in/out

I guess I am old school and prefer architectural speakers to powered ones that stand on the shelf

[dtc]

Thanks for your insight.

As you note, neither the Sonos or the Yamaha MusicCast speakers are high quality speakers and they would probably not show the quality of DSD and high rez audio versus CD quality.  I actually convert all my high rez and DSD to CD quality for use with my Sonos system.

The WXC-50 may be an better unit than the Sonos Port, at a cheaper price. But either is a specialized use, not a common part of the typical wireless system.

I would not, and do not, use Sonos for a high quality, audiophile system. But, Sonos is a good option for a casual, whole house audio system.  For that, I do not see any advantage to the Yamaha system. I have read more than one account of wireless problems with MusicCast, whereas I do not see many accounts of those problems with Sonos.

Thanks for your thoughts.

By the way, if Sonos provided a full DLNA system, then all of these problems would go away. It is unfortunate that they decided not to do that.  But I do understand that they do not want to give up their UI as a part of their system.

[Ferdi]

Sonos has APIs and a partner program. It is in the interest of Sonos to grow the network. To say that MC does not have that option is wrong: It is a decision not to integrate further (yet). I assume that this  simply a matter of priorities of a small team with a long list of feature requests.

I also take a little offense in the remark that Sonos is not high quality. Yes, they are not to be compared with significantly more expensive speakers. I haven’t turned on my not so cheap stereo system with Sonus Faber speakers for a long time: the sound quality of  paired Sonos Play5 are in almost all situations excellent an more than satisfying. Quality is very subjective and situational after all.

[drmimosa]

I did some obsessive research into buying a Sonos system recently. I would set it up with JRiver in one of two ways:

1. Connect a JRiver idPi to the Sonos Amp or a Sonos Connect via a HDMI or Optical cable.

2. Connect an idPi to the aux input of any number of Sonos devices with aux inputs.  From an audio perspective, this is less ideal because it adds another DAC ADC step to the chain. I would install a hifiberry dac card to get good quality audio out of the Pi, and therefore mitigating some of the sound quality loss.

With aux and digital inputs, Sonos has a lot of autoplay options, you can set specific zones when it senses a signal from one of these inputs. I think you can even set it to play to a different zone than you have it connected to.

Then you use Panel or JRemote to start music on the idPi and Sonos should just switch the inputs and turn everything on etc.

One year ago I set up a four zone Sonos Connect:Amp system for a buddy of mine, and the setup included a turntable going into a one of the Sonos Connect:Amp aux input. It worked great. With the new Sonos Amp unit it should work even better.

In short, setup JRiver as a separate source and you will have the best of both worlds.

https://blog.sonos.com/en/listening-to-vinyl-with-sonos/

https://en.community.sonos.com/what-to-get-228989/integrating-a-stand-alone-cd-player-6825386

[dtc]

Offense noted.

Sonos speakers are certainly better than many low end speakers.  At their price point they are very good. That is why I use them.  However, in the whole realm of speakers, they are at the low end of the spectrum.  That was my point. As I noted, Sonos is good for a casual system but would not generally be considered an audiophile system. Of course, that depends on the listener.  Sorry if I was not clear.

I would be surprised if you can hear the difference between high rez audio and CD quality on your Play:5.  Do you think you can?

My main system is Sonus Faber Cremona speakers, driven by a Cary SLP-05 and Mark Levinson 432 amplifier. I do not think many people would find that the Sonos system sounds as good as that system.

[Ferdi]

Fully agree with you all points you made. Cheers to Sonus Faber, beautiful looking and sounding speakers. And cheers to the convenience of a Sonos powered multi room system!

[tij]

out of curiosity … how ppl would prefer integration with Sonos (or any other multiroom systems)

1) control MC from Sonos App (search, play, create playlist, edit playlist, etc.)
2) control Sonos system from MC ... MC26 and/or JRemote and/or Gizmo and/or Panel (choose to which Sonos to send audio)

[Brumel]

Right now I’m pushing MC 26 content to my main system using Sonos Media Renderer and ”speakers” Connect+Cambridge Dac Magic.

I seem to be able to port anything to the Sonos but the Dac Magic lights up a 44 kHz signal seeming to convert the Sample rate down to 44/16.

I have no clue how that is done but it must be a feature of MC 26 configuration itself.

Not that I can hear a great differece 24 bit and 16. I have another system using a Denon media player also with a Dac Magic that is capable of 96/24 using optical connection but DSD without the Dac Magic. In this case there is no conversion other than the DSP setting I use with MC 26.
I found that bandwith limiting to 96/24 is preferable when listening over LAN. Anything higher need a USB connection.

[tij]

Sonos does not support hi-res ... max 16bit ... max 48khz

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/79?language=en_US