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[flac.rules]

Are the MadVR-settings for red october HQ reasonable for watching HDR content on a SDR display? (thinking about tonemapping and such), or should I change any of the MadVR-settings?

[BryanC]

I think that new tonemapping code is only available in the beta madVR versions. I would love to see this as a setting as well. There's been a lot of good work recently on creating HQ tonemapping curves and any of the popular options would be good candidates for ROHQ HDR->SDR mode. I think madVR does a pretty good job of HDR detection but maybe it should also be possible to create a Zone based on an [HDR} tag or automatically based on bitdepth (I'm not sure if all 10-bit sources are HDR or not).

My set is technically HDR but it does such a poor job of rendering it I just leave it off. As more and more of my sources are 10-bit HDR, it would be great to have the tonemapping functions built into MC's madVR.

Elvis, technically you can accomplish this right now by using a beta madVR version as a custom filter, using a madVR profile rule to separate your HDR and non-HDR content:

Code: [Select]

if (HDR==true) and (bitdepth==10) "HDR"
else "SDR"
...and then entering your preferred tonemapping curve/settings for the HDR profile.

You'll probably need to modify your other profile quality rules too because tonemapping pegs my GPU.

[jmone]

I'm using the latest madVR Beta and the Tone Mapping from HDR --> SDR looks fantastic on a variety of UHD displays (including a 125" JVC PJ, 65" Sony OLED, and even a 43" LCD I'm using as my PC Monitor).  Couple of things to note:
- It's a beta.  It's not part of MC and I'm sure the JR'ers will explain it is not supported
- If you wanted to "play", then head over to AVS - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-281.html to get the latest beta (search backwards from the end of the thread)
- It's a beta and alot of options are fully expanded and not yet settled.  You are going to need to read and understand what the thread is on about.  It is not a support thread either.  You need to be pretty self sufficient.
- If you are still keen, then all you need to do is download the correct beta version (32 or 64 bit) and overwrite the madVR files in "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 26\Plugins\madvr".  You may want to make a copy of this folder first if you have made any madVR changes and want to roll-back.... otherwise just delete the madvr folder and MC will download the latest supported version.

Other option is just to wait.  I'm sure Hendrik is all over this, and will look at upgrading the version of madVR and the correct point in time.

[tij]

MadVR shipped with MC does have tone mapping hdr to sdr ... not much options to tweak it except target nits

[flac.rules]

MadVR shipped with MC does have tone mapping hdr to sdr ... not much options to tweak it except target nits

Sure about this? I tried running HDR in MC vs VLC, and the difference is dramatic.

[BryanC]

I had my first experience using the new tonemapping curves (NeoXP's) last night using the 112b madVR build playing the new Maleficent: Mistress of Evil release. Holy cow  . I highly recommend using this movie if you want to test color and dynamic range. I switched back and forth from my 8 bit and 10 bit rip and it was like being in a different world.

[tij]

Sure about this? I tried running HDR in MC vs VLC, and the difference is dramatic.

The bottom image does not have any HDR to SDR mapping at all.

if you set HDR passthrough in MadVR ... it will only work in full screen (and TV will do tonemappibg in that case ... not MadVR)

you have to set HDR setting for madVR to process or convert HDR ... AND do not send HDR metadata to TV ... have to know nits of your tv too for better result

PS. my thoughts on HDR ... whatever tone mapping is used - it will not be what it meant to be ... you are compressing something ... trading one thing for another ... so ultimately - it will be subjective what is best

consumer TV and projectors not only cannot hit required brightness ... they cannot cover full BT2020 ... so while TV might claim 1000nit brightness ... it will not be able to correctly display color at that brightness ... good tone mapping will let you choose - “see details in bright explosion but with less saturated color than intended” or “see explosion in as correct color as possible but loose highlight details” ... atm madVR with MC at least gives you that choice

[flac.rules]

The bottom image does not have any HDR to SDR mapping at all.

if you set HDR passthrough in MadVR ... it will only work in full screen (and TV will do tonemappibg in that case ... not MadVR)

you have to set HDR setting for madVR to process or convert HDR ... AND do not send HDR metadata to TV ... have to know nits of your tv too for better result

PS. my thoughts on HDR ... whatever tone mapping is used - it will not be what it meant to be ... you are compressing something ... trading one thing for another ... so ultimately - it will be subjective what is best

consumer TV and projectors not only cannot hit required brightness ... they cannot cover full BT2020 ... so while TV might claim 1000nit brightness ... it will not be able to correctly display color at that brightness ... good tone mapping will let you choose - “see details in bright explosion but with less saturated color than intended” or “see explosion in as correct color as possible but loose highlight details” ... atm madVR with MC at least gives you that choice

Exactly, that is my point, default MC-install doesn't seem to do any tonemapping with its default settings? But maybe the "led madVR decide" isn't the best setting here?

[tij]

Exactly, that is my point, default MC-install doesn't seem to do any tonemapping with its default settings? But maybe the "led madVR decide" isn't the best setting here?

I don't use "let MadVR decide" for HDR simply because I have no idea how MadVR decides … in your case it seems MadVR chose to passthrough HDR metadata (ie it chose not to do tone mapping and let TV do it … this only works in Full Screen … your TV should enter HDR mode … this would explain why your screenshot of MC looks wash out - it was not running full screen)

madVR 0.92.16 shipped with MC has following option for HDR

1. [let MadVR decide] … I don't use this as I have no idea how MadVR chooses between 5 available choices

2. [passthrough HDR content to the display] - MadVR don't do tone mapping and let TV do it (obviously TV must support HDR) … box [send HDR metadata to the display] must be ticked otherwise TV would not know if it suppose to do tone mapping … this only works if video is played in full screen mode … your TV will enter HDR mode (if it does not - something is not working correctly)

remaining 4 options are [convert HDR content to SDR] and [process HDR content] with options to do it with "pixel shader" or "3DLUT"

3DLUT is not something average person can do … so most ppl will use pixel shaders … this uses GPU … so might need to tone down on scaling algorithms to avoid frame drops

the deference between [convert] and [process] … is later allows you to send HDR metadata to TV for TV to do further tone mapping (though purpose of this escapes my limited understanding of HDR)

In summary … if you want TV to do tone mapping … choose [passthrough HDR content to the display] with [send HDR metadata to the display] box ticked

If your TV is not HDR or its tone mapping suck bad … choose [convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math] … most important setting there is target nits
… google your TV to see its max nits … you don't want to set target nits higher than what your TV can do or there will be clipping

PS. be aware when comparing passthrough with convert to SDR … when TV enters HDR mode in passthrough it uses separate settings for brightness/contrast (usually much brighter) … so you need to adjust your TV brightness in normal mode to match your target nits in conversion, which might make your regular SDR content not so good