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[If6was9]

I have had a long time problem with JRiver 26 x64 and madVR (now on the latest build 113)

JRiver set to Red October HQ,
madVR set to Video Levels 16-235 and GPU to RGB Full 4:4:4 (0-255)
during playback if I press pause and restart, the levels change from TV Levels 0-235 to PC levels 0-255, with black crushed...
and then remain so until the next pause\start

This does not happen with JRiver x32
My OS is Win10 x64 and RX580

Can anyone with JRiver x64 try?
Thank you

[tij]

and GPU to RGB Full 4:4:4 (0-255)

It’s either RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 ... but not both

That aside ... why set MadVR different from GPU? In your case MadVR will process video in limited range ... then GPU will need to convert that to full range to output to TV. Whole point of MadVR is to have MadVR do all video processing, isn’t it?

Important setting that you did not mention is which mode you use on your TV for HDMI that PC connects to. Each TV call this thing differently. What you usually looking for is something call PC mode or Game mode.

TV manufacturer strife to make their TV appear better than competitors. To that effect they apply lots of image “enhancements” that introduces latency (basically delay between when TV receives signal and when it actually display it). Latency is not so important for watching movie but if you using MadVR - you absolutely don’t want TV to apply its “enhancements”.

If you set your TV on “PC mode” (or whatever it’s called ... EDIT: TV will not apply any image “enhancements” and will accept 0-255 mode) ... then GPU should be set at full (0-255) mode ... it’s better then to set MadVR to full mode too (0-255) as MadVR will do conversion from video limited to full.

IMHO you set your whole chain to limited if and only if your TV does not support full range.

PS. My guess is - you using full screen exclusive in MadVR? then MadVR probably forces GPU into 16-235. If you pause with mouse ... MadVR exits exclusive mode to draw MC controls - ie GPU goes to 0-255 while MadVR is still doing 16-235 resulting in crushed blacks. If you leave your mouse still long enough ... cursor and MC controls disappear letting MadVR enter full exclusive mode again where it forces GPU back to 16-235 ... just a wild guess lol

[If6was9]

My TV doesn't support Full range

[tij]

In that case set MadVR to 16-235 ... AND set GPU to 16-235

Edit: check which input does your TV support (does it support RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 ... first one is preferable as MadVR works in RGB) ... you TV might not support it as disc players at most will output 4:2:2

[Hendrik]

In that case set MadVR to 16-235 ... AND set GPU to 16-235

Never do that! If you set both to limited, then you get double compression and wrong levels. There is no situation where you ever want both on limited.

Either GPU to Full and madVR to limited, or madVR to full and GPU to limited. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
You could try setting madVR to full and GPU to limited, that should avoid the problem you are currently facing (and as a bonus ensure that the desktop is not black crushed)

[If6was9]

As recommended in this guide (and also by madshi),
it is not recommended to set the whole Limit range:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

So far I have always used option 2 (madVR set at 16-235 and GPU set at 0-255), always without problems.
But now from the latest builds of madVR I have problems with JRiver x64.
With JRiver x32 no problem

[tij]

In that case set MadVR to 16-235 ... AND set GPU to 16-235

Ha … just proves a good old advice - "think before opening your mouth" lol

Either GPU to Full and madVR to limited, or madVR to full and GPU to limited. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
You could try setting madVR to full and GPU to limited, that should avoid the problem you are currently facing (and as a bonus ensure that the desktop is not black crushed)

I think if your TV does not support 0-255 … I agree with Hendrik, its best to set GPU 16-235 and madVR to 0-255 … that way your desktop and all apps will have correct color too … not just madVR movies (I thought carefully about this statement this time lol)

[If6was9]

Setting madVR to 0-255 and GPU to 16-235 is not recommended.
If you can't set the whole chain to Full range,
we recommend 16-235 in madVR and 0-255 on the GPU (as I've always done so far).
But now I have the problem of changing Levels with JRiver x64 and madVR latest builds.

Why isn't the problem with JRiver X32?

[Hendrik]

If you don't know why someone recommended something, can you blindly trust it?

Personally, if my TV wouldn't support full range, I would use madVR 0-255 and GPU 16-235, because otherwise everything else thats not madVR would look bad, and thats not acceptable.
So here, have a new recommendation, and an actual reason why I gave it!

[If6was9]

Forgive me, but do you know madVR?

if you set madVR to 0-255 and GPU to 16-235, you will have compression done by the GPU.

If your TV does not support full range, madshi (and others, and personally verified) recommends: madvr in 16-235 and gpu in 0-255,
in this way the signal passes through the GPU without compression.

but now with JRiver x64 i have this problem

[Hendrik]

Well if you like your desktop, the MC interface, and any website you open to look bad with crushed blacks and wrong colors, then thats a "good" recommendation. To each their own I guess.
I have never heard of such an issue, and you should probably ask madshi then.

[tij]

Out of curiosity which TV you have?

And which rendering method you use - full screen windowed or exclusive full screen?

[If6was9]

Mine is an old Sharp LCD TV, without HDMI control (Extended or Limited)

The problem occurs both in FSE mode and in Windowed mode, but in a different way:

in FSE, during playback, pressing pause/play several times, it locks the 16-235, then goes back to 0-255 until the next pause.

In Windowed mode, it does not lock in any way the 16-235, it remains fixed at 0-255, even by pressing pause/play

As repeated, I have always used these settings for years (madVR 16-235 GPU 0-255).

The problem arose now,
this is a bug between JRiver x64 and the latest madVR builds,
because with JRiver x32 there are no problems

But could someone with Win10 x64 and JRiver x64 give it a try?
Thanks

P.s.
I remember that by setting madVR in 16-235 and GPU in 0-255, the Limited range is sent to the display, as the GPU is bypassed,
And it is the best option for panels that do not support Full range, or for those who prefer the Limited range and use the PC only for Video material

[tij]

Just to be sure ... you experiencing crushed blacks (cannot see details in dark area) or elevated blacks (blacks are grayish)?

I remember that by setting madVR in 16-235 and GPU in 0-255, the Limited range is sent to the display, as the GPU is bypassed,
And it is the best option for panels that do not support Full range, or for those who prefer the Limited range and use the PC only for Video material

If you have TV set at full range ... and on your PC GPU on 0-255 and MadVR 16-235 - you will have elevated blacks

[If6was9]

The problem is crushed blacks (I don't see details in dark area)
My TV has no controls to set Full or Limited range.
If I set madVR and GPU in Full range I have crushed blacks, because I send the Full range to the display
My TV doesn't support Full range

If I set madVR in 16-235 and GPU in 0-255 I have the correct levels 16-235 on the display (the GPU is bypassed),
but now there is this bug with JRiver x64, which sends the 0-255 Full range, always forces the madVR 16-235 to 0-255

P.s.
And in any case,
even with my VPJ (Epson LS-10500), which supports Full range, I always prefer to send the Limited range 16-235 (the movies are coded on video level), for me, the Full range RGB, has an unnatural boost on video material.
And in fact it is necessary to force the panel controls to bring Brightness and Contrast to the correct levels.

[tij]

Alright ... which version of MadVR you are using?

Also ... are you using RO HQ or Custom for video mode.

Only thing I can think of happening is you were using Custom mode in x32 and use external MadVR (not one that packaged with MC) ... and your Custom setting did not transfer to your x64 install.

MC has no control over MadVR ... it cannot force MadVR to output in 0-255 if MadVR setting are 16-235

I admit I was a bit lazy ... but will try to reproduce your problem on my TV (will have to switch my HDMI on TV to limited)

[If6was9]

OK thanks,
If you can replicate the problem, I can understand better ...

madVR latest 0.92.17 + latest build 113.

I use JRiver's internal madVR, in Red October HQ.

With the same settings and JRiver x32 no problem.

P.s.
Please also try FSE On/Off and Pause/Play

Thank you

[tij]

Ok ... I am on Win10 1809 (17763.973) ... Nvidia driver 425.31 ... MC26 x64 ver 26.0.22 ... LG OLED E6 with HDMI set to BluRay (limited range)

I use d3d11 full windowed mode in MadVR

GPU set on full ... MadVR on full ... crushed black as expected (I use a greyscale pattern and large potion of dark parts are just black)

GPU set on full ... MadVR on limited ... greyscale pattern shows normal (no crushed blacks) ... pausing and resuming with keyboard has no effect on this ... pausing and resuming with mouse (brings MC OSD) has no effect on this

If I double click to make video play in detached window ... if window large enough no black crushing ... if I start to reduce window size, at certain point black become crushed (likely not MC problem but due to downscaling of MadVR)

In short, I cannot reproduce your problem.

Now ... I try to take a wild guess at your problem ... as I stopped using latest MadVR (not due to lack of knowledge but too lazy) ... my MadVR is what is provided with MC, which is 0.92.16.

As you using 0.92.17 and even latest 113 (which MC officially do not support) ... my guess is you did not replace copy of MadVR in MC folder, but running latest version separately (with MadVR icon in the system tray).

MC has it’s own MadVR copy that it uses and does not share with other programs. Only way to force MC to use latest MadVR is to replace MC copy of MadVR with latest.

Option for MadVR copy under MC is ONLY accessible from MC [option]->[video]->[MadVR setting (advance users only) ... or something like that] ... you must set limited range for MadVR there for MC

If you setting MadVR settings via tray icon, that’s MadVR that MC does not use (unless you use Custom video mode instead of RO HQ)

[If6was9]

I think I found the problem!!! (at least I hope):
in madVR, Devices ---> Properties I have always set the bitdepth display to 8bit (my TV is native 8bit)
Moving it to "Auto" the problem disappears.  ?
Even with FSE On / Off,
now the levels remain correctly fixed in 16-235

Edit:
The problem has disappeared permanently
Something has probably changed in madVR or in the replacement of the GPU with the new RX580.
The settings in madVR "devices" have always been the same for years.

Thanks again

[henkeli]

Just want to share that I was having really annoying problems with RGB range changes & blacks/shadows being crushed and decided to set the GPU (5500XT) to YCbCr at 10bpc (PJ is 10-bit) which is the default Radeon SW setting for my rig: HTPC -> AVR -> PJ

Playing around with RGB Full all the way down the chain caused way more problems than the potential for color issues or banding or whatever as indicated in all the madVR advice threads. I have not noticed any such issues with my current setup of: madVR 0-255 -> GPU YCbCr 10bpc -> PJ HDMI Range Standard. As a bonus, I no longer have to restart movies or play around endlessly with gamma levels and HDR nits and on and on.

Something to note - when I connect my HTPC to my computer monitor (1440p 8-bit) the Radeon SW auto configures the GPU to be RGB Full 0-255.

[If6was9]

@henkeli
These settings are wrong.
You are doing a double conversion on the signal.
The correct setting, to solve your problem, and without conversion (the same one that I use) is this:

madVR: 16-235, 8bit (try with 10bit, if you notice banding problems or blacks crushed or other, set 8bit, you will not notice differences)

GPU: 0-255 Full RGB

PJ: HDMI Standard or Limited

[henkeli]

@henkeli
These settings are wrong.
You are doing a double conversion on the signal.
The correct setting, to solve your problem, and without conversion (the same one that I use) is this:

madVR: 16-235, 8bit (try with 10bit, if you notice banding problems or blacks crushed or other, set 8bit, you will not notice differences)

GPU: 0-255 Full RGB

PJ: HDMI Standard or Limited

Double converted, gasp. Nooooooo not the heckin' pixelinos!!!

But seriously, I did try what you are saying in setting madVR to 16-235 and still had the same problems. My best guess is that the AVR does not like RGB input. The PJ can handle RGB-Video (as well as Component) but always defaults to expanded 0-255 range even though madVR is in limited. I set the AVR to bypass and that solved the shadow crush but introduced more issues like removing the AVR settings video overlay and for some reason introducing speaker audio popping upon movie stop. I figure there's a good reason that the Radeon SW auto-senses YCbCr when it probes the HDMI link.

To be clear, madVR is offering a warning against setting the GPU to limited or YCbCr. They are not saying it is "wrong." Since I do not have any of the potential color artifacts on my rig, I would consider my settings to be "the right way for me."

I even do more processing on the AVR because I really like its ISF-Day picture mode. For a PJ it gives me the right amount of shadow detail. So I'm stepping all over the precious pixels but I just don't care. I prefer my rig to function like a store-bought appliance.

[If6was9]

Through the AVR, make a further change to the signal (the third), avoid this by using the two HDMI outputs on the VGA (if present), one directed to the PJ and the other to the AVR.