Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jeffspl311]

This is not unique to vers 26. It's been going on for a while. I've named my subs according to the Wiki... [MovieName]*.srt, where * is optional stuff. My specific example, I have two srt files...  one is Eng2 and I've left it as the default with no identifier, and the other is Eng3, which I've had to distinguish for uniqueness (Sidecar and jpeg files are there too, but not relevant to example):

Animal Crackers.mkv
Animal Crackers.srt
Anmial Crackers.Eng3.srt

Experiment 1:
When I change the name to "Animal Crackers Test" and do a "Rename, Move & Copy Files", all the files get renamed and put into a new folder of the new name EXCEPT for the Eng3.srt subtitle, which remains unchanged in the original folder. I argue that this is a bug and the Eng3.srt should be renamed and moved since I followed the proper naming conventions.

Experiment 2:
When I do the same experiment with the "Move all non-imported files..." option checked, then it's even more messed up. A new correctly named folder is created and I get a correctly named mkv file (Animal Crackers Test.mkv), but ALL the other files are NOT renamed (but at least they are ALL moved, including the Eng3.srt).

Anyway, it's hard for me to imagine that this behavior is desired or useful to anyone as currently implemented. Happy to be enlightened if it is, but happier still if the Experiment 1 case worked as I expected it to.

Thanks,
Jeff

[wer]

I think what you describe is only a partial problem.

Although Rod will probably be along shortly to correct me, I don't think RMCF is actually INTENDED to rename everything.  There are some files where renaming it would actually break things.  So I think it has some intelligence built in to only rename appropriate files.

However, when it comes to moving, I do believe it's supposed to move everything if you have that option checked.  But I've seen that not always work .  Admittedly I have not tested this extensively lately.

[RoderickGI]

Although Rod will probably be along shortly to correct me, I don't think RMCF is actually INTENDED to rename everything.

It's complicated...

I wouldn't call it a bug. Perhaps an oversight. But the whole subtitle file naming, RM&CF function with respect to non-imported files, and just subtitles, in general, have been discussed to death many times.

Jeff, I basically think your expectation of Experiment 1 is reasonable. But sidecar subtitles files, such as SRT files, are not imported into MC and so the RM&CF function can't act on them, generally. JRiver have included the functionality to rename the srt files when [Filename (name)] matches exactly, but not when the srt file name just begins with [Filename (name)] (well, actually [Filename (name)] without the extension).

The problem is, people don't store all their movies on drives in the same way. Some, like me, put each movie in its own directory, and therefore it makes sense that MC should act on all files in that folder whenever I make changes using the RM&CF function.

But many, many people put multiple movies in one directory. What if someone puts all their Superman movies in one directory, "\Superman\", giving each a different filename, such as;

Superman.mkv
Superman II.mkv
Superman III.mkv
Superman IV: The Quest For Peace.mkv
Superman Returns.mkv
Superman/Batman: Apocalypse.mkv

If all the above had srt subtitle files in English, Italian, and French, and the user renamed "Superman" to "Superman I", what would the RM&CF function do with the srt files? I think the answer is obvious, but for example;

"Superman II.Eng.srt" would be renamed "Superman I II.Eng.srt".
"Superman III.Eng.srt" would be renamed "Superman I III.Eng.srt".
"Superman IV: The Quest For Peace.Eng.srt" would be renamed "Superman I IV: The Quest For Peace.Eng.srt"

etc. Not a good outcome, and difficult to unravel after the event. Sure, some more coding could be added to only rename files that only begin with "Superman" and don't have extra characters. But for that to work all srt files would have to by always named in very specific ways, such as "Superman II.Eng.srt", or "Superman II.En.srt", or "Superman II.Englsih.srt", or ... all of which are accepted ways to name srt files. Oh, but we forgot about Open Subtitles files, named in the format "Superman II_OS_English.srt"!

There is simply a law of diminishing returns, and JRiver doesn't want to enforce specific naming conventions on all files, as other Media Center applications do.

So, as most people would only require subtitles in one language, and if they were in a sidecar srt file, then the srt file could be named identically to the movie file, and hence the RM&CF function would do what they need.

Bottom line, if you have multiple sidecar subtitle files in multiple languages or just with different names, deal with them yourself manually, as MC can't know what is the best way to handle them.


Regarding the "Move all non-imported files..." option, that has been improved recently so that it doesn't move files that have been imported into MC, but it still needs to be used with great caution. I only use it very rarely, and only when I have only one media file that MC knows about in its own directory, because it still potentially moves stuff that I don't want moved.

Consider the above Superman example. If I tried to rename and move the "Superman.mkv" file to its own directory "\Superman I\Superman I.mkv" with that option turned on, all the srt files and any other non-imported files would be moved along with the movie file. Only the "Superman.srt" file would be renamed to "Superman I.srt", with the rest just moved.

Basically, using that option can open a can of worms. I won't say don't use it, but I will say use it with extreme caution.


Wow, that took too long to say, for what appears to be a very simple thing. But as above, it isn't simple at all.

[wer]

Actually I just did that to trick you into making a really long post where you couldn't really provide a solution. 

[RoderickGI]

I know...

But this question, or variations of it, has been asked often, without the whole situation being thought through. Hence I have covered some of the issues for future reference.

[jeffspl311]

Thanks Wer for prompting Rod into responding, and thanks Rod for the explanation!

It seems to me that a way better solution, however, is for MC to treat "sidecar" filenames as being unique and identifying up to the first period (.), and treat everything after that as a file extension and leave it alone. That would cover 99% of cases clearly and unambiguously, including my experiment and your counter examples. The only time this would break is if there is a period in the name of the movie (looking at you, "Emma."), or ellipses (but I have no sympathy for folks to use three periods instead of the ellipsis character so to heck with that case… LOL!).

[RoderickGI]

No doubt a solution could be created and coded. I think the "up to the first period" rule would be a bit too simple. To be sure that the RM&CF function always worked correctly, because 99% still leaves a lot of unhappy people, JRiver would ave to decide upon and impose an acceptable file naming structure for subtitle files, and then use the rules imposed to correctly handle the files. The rules do sort of exist in the wild (internet), but there is no central body of knowledge or standard. At least not one I have found.

It isn't like JRiver to impose such structure. That is more of a Plex thing.

Hendrik is a heavy user of subtitles, and seems to be happy with how they work. So I don't think this will get a lot of developer time, if any. The workarounds aren't that hard. But I'm sure the developers have read this thread, so maybe someone will pick up on it.