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[rar2667]

I haven't bought a PC or video card in several years and it's time to get current. Any advice on which video card to get when I build my new PC? I want to do PVR and capture analog video...maybe a little editing.

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks
Andy

[DocLotus]

Three words...

ATI, ATI, ATI.

The ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 7500, 8500, or the latest 9700 all do very nicely with recording & editing. Also includes a killer TV tuner & it works great with MC9!

Am on my third ATI card & there simply is not anything else out that does as much.

[rar2667]

Thanks DocLotus...ATI is floating to the top of my list the more I research.

[KingSparta]

>> or the latest 9700 all do very nicely with
>> recording & editing.
i have a 9700 Pro and it is nice.

I got it for Highend Video Games

[DocLotus]

Yeh... the 9700 really rocks.  It is also the fastest video card currently out there.

Too bad it cost $400+ USD.  I'm waiting for the price to drop $100 or so.  The encourging news is that there has been a small drop in the price this month & it is hoped there will be more to come.

[xen-uno]

King...

Can your monitor handle the high res wide screen mode (1900x1200x32bit)? I was wondering how quick the 9700 is at that res. Plan on buying a 24" wide screen Sony soon (and the 9700 AIW). If you can test that mode and tell me how it compares to the res you normally run at, I would appreciate it.

10^-27

edit: If it can't handle 1900x1200...how about 1600x1000?

[sraymond]

Hey... if we're to boycott France, does that include the French-speaking part of Canada?  Where in Canada is ATI?  <Hey>Just Kidding</Hey>

ATI is nice...  but I'm not sure it's worth the money unless you're a high-end gamer (which appears to be the current market focus).

Also, ATI has some strange "features" that can be quite irritating.  I'll mention one here:  I can't display the TV Tuner to a secondary display.

Another complaint is their driver installation (rather update) hassle.  It's gotten a little better of late, but it is still way too difficult to get a clean upgrade (which amounts to a complete uninstall and reinstall).

I've also rarely seen the TV portion of the AIW labeled as the best.  If this is your interest, I'd definitely do some due-diligence in this regard.

Read up on www.rage3d.com if you want to learn more about about ATI - there are some hardcore fanatics on their forums.

All-in-all, I'm pretty happy with my ATI AIW 8500DV.

Scott-

[KingSparta]

>> Can your monitor handle the high res
>> wide screen mode (1900x1200x32bit)?
well the monitor i gave her i think can, but thats on another computer.

this monitor is a 18 inch flat screen, i would have loved to get a 22inch flat screen but my wife put a limit on me at around $3,500 and that flat screen was around $1,400 but i don't think it went to that high of res i have not seen a flat screen go that high yet.

>> but I'm not sure it's worth the money
>> unless you're a high-end gamer
yes and I spent $100+ on a force feedback joystick also for better flight control when bombing my enemy.

[xen-uno]

Well, I put a cap on myself of $2k for the monitor which is exactly what the Sony cost.

Looks like the upper 16:9 mode of the 9700 is 1920x1080 (HDTV res...either 1080i or 1080p). 1900x1200 is ~16:10.
Darn! Guess I'll have to buy the combo and test it myself. Shoot!

10^-27

[Jaguu]

King:

Do you have enemies?

[phelt]

xen - which monitor are you talking about?

I have an ATI Radeon 9500 Pro running at 1920x1200, 32-bit, with no problem. Monitor is Sony GDM-FW900 (24-inch widescreen CRT). I mainly do graphics and some video/animation editing, play a few games... no problems.

[xen-uno]

You've got it phelt...same exact one.

It's GOT to be a beautiful sight...huge screen...high resolution. How fast is the comp itself? Wondering how well the visualizations and video/movies playback if running full screen. Any frame drops, lagging, or other defects?

10^-27

[KingSparta]

King:

Do you have enemies?

Don't we all?

[phelt]

xen-

Pentium 4 @ 3ghz, 2gigs of ram.

Video is smooth, but you see flaws when running full-screen viz in Media Center. Visualizations look pixelated and chunky. Hairstyle has similar issues - dunno if this is because of the aspect ratio or resolution or some combination of both. High res will bring out the flaws in anything.

If you have Windows set to show window contents while dragging, it is not perfectly smooth. But it's not wretched by any means; just a little 'shimmer' while moving windows and a brief but noticable refresh delay for parts of the screen that get revealed as a result of moving a window. But I turn all UI effects and animation stuff off (me = impatient b*st*rd), so I never see that.

DVD playback is... just... sweet. Obviously there's some letterbox because of the difference in aspect, but image quality is... sweet. Usually I don't switch resolution when watching movies full-screen. I just let it interpolate. The rare 'stutters' are due to poor formatting/layout of the disc or layer-switch, and are usually visible with stand-alone players, ie. not the Radeon's fault.

Games are smooth. The monitor has no problems with resolution switches, even from 4:3 to widescreen and back.

Though dual monitors are attractive  - it would be nice to separate interface stuff from content being worked on - I have seen too many friends with "Why won't it show up where I tell it to?!" issues. Widescreen gives you a place to put menus, toolbars, etc. and still be able to see what you're working on. It's extra nice for any apps with a timeline - audio editors, Flash, video editors, etc.

Keep in mind that this is a 9500 driving the monitor - YMMV and possibly be better with a newer, higher-level card. Sorry for making such a tome out of this post  

EDIT: just to make this post a little longer...  
Video cards that I found unacceptable for this system:
3DLabs Oxygen VX1 Pro - screen refresh too slow.
NVidia GeForce 4 (don't remember exact model) - unacceptable image quality.
Matrox Parhelia - buggy, unstable piece of...
ATI Radeon 8500 - unacceptable image quality.

[DocLotus]

Phelt

>> Visualizations look pixelated and chunky. Hairstyle has similar issues - dunno if this is because of the aspect ratio or resolution or some combination of both. High res will bring out the flaws in anything.<<

Have you changed the MC9 Display to Highest Quality?  It is set to Normal by default.  This may help the pixelated issue.

[phelt]

DocLotus-

Thanks for the suggestion. I have tried the diferent quality settings, but it's still kinda horked. Highest quality is still chunky, though better than normal. Plus it slows down significantly. No big deal since I never use the visualizations - just looked at them for the sake of this thread.

BTW, got a little OT, but I am definitely supporting the recommendations for recent All-In-Wonder cards.

[Mastiff]

I disagree. You don't need to upgrade a capture card half as often as many (at least I...) upgrad the graphics card. That's why I always keep them seperate. I started with AIW's (I've probably used three or four different generations, starting with the original Rage, then Rage Pro, then Rage 128, and maybe one more), but I found out that the price difference is large enough and the difference in the actual capture/TV tuner part of the card is small enough for me to go separate. Right now I'm on a Sapphire Radeon 9500 soft modded to 9700 Pro, and I use a Hauppauge WinTV Prime FM (both TV and radio) as a capture card.  

[phelt]

Mastiff - I don't disagree with you from a HW enthusiast's point of view, but rar2667 said

I haven't bought a PC or video card in several years

so I figure they're probably looking for as straightforward a solution as possible. IMO, a single device reduces potential points of failure, driver update tracking, etc. It also reduces the spec-comparison and shopping time  

[xen-uno]

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the AIW series comes with a remote. If so, does it operate with Girder and MC in a fault free manner?

10^-27

[DocLotus]

With MC9 ... NO

With Girder & MC9... YES
Check out the latest MC9 build... it now has Girder for ATI built-in.


It is also very fast... Radio Frequency & not the slower Infre Red.

[Mastiff]

Phelt, I will say that my point still stands for this simple reason: I have five year old capture cards that work just as good today as they did then, but five year old graphics cards are only usable as frisbees!   So if he's not planning to buy another card in less than five years, OK, but once he sees how big a change a new card can make (check out the DVD playback quality of a newer card compared to for instance the first Rage cards, or the quality of the TV out on them) he will probably at least get a new graphics card every few years. And then he can keep the capture card and save some money.

Doc, first of all: Thanks for tipping me (and everybody else) about the kX Project drivers! I don't think I have said that before.

Second of all: How do you figure that RF is faster? The reaction times of my IR remotes (I've got them spread all over the house) are so short that I can't notice any lag. And even when using them with extenders - IR to RF senders and RF back to IR receivers - there is no noticeable lag. What I will give you, though, is that RF will work through walls and solve the same problem that I have solved with those extenders. So if you only need one remote it's by far the best solution. But if you want to control more zones, the extenders are the way to go.  

[DocLotus]

Hi Mastiff;

>> Second of all: How do you figure that RF is faster? <<

I guess it is because ALL the IR devices I have ever had for my computer have all been a pain-in-the-you-know-what.

True, most regular TV remotes (not computer) work ok but are limited in range & directionally when compared to a RF remote which works through walls, around corners & at much longer range.

I have had a lot of IR remotes including 3 different IR keyboards, 1 IR mouse, Creative Audigy SoundBlaster Platinum IR remote (very slow to respond), & Logitech Z-680 surround-sound speakers IR remote (see below).

All of the IR remotes have exhibited one or more of the following problems.  An example of a current one is the following comments I sent to Logitech complaining about the IR remote that came with the Z-680 speakers & Digital SoundTouch Control Center.

"The Remote Control is a big disappointment for me!  It suffers from several problems.  I own three Logitech wireless products... Keyboard, Mouse, & WingMan Cordless game controller and they all use radio frequency (RF) and not Infer Red (IR) for the wireless link.  The RF products are beyond approach in their flawless operation (with outstanding battery life).  Any of my RF products will work anywhere... around corners, even through walls!  The IR remote provided with the Z-680 is severely lacking in directional use.  The Z-680 remote has a hard time working unless it is pointed directly at the Digital SoundTouch Control Center.  If the remote is lying on the desktop directly in front of the Digital SoundTouch Control Center it will not work.  It has to be pointed directly at the little red window on top of the big round control knob.  At first I thought the remote was not working.  This is total nonsense!  Come on Logitech, give us a real remote control that works anytime, anywhere like your other great wireless RF products do!  Also please put a light on top of the remote so I know it is attempting to send a signal when I press a button."

Another computer IR remote I gave up on was the Creative Audigy Platinum.  It is VERY slow to respond... you push a button & can sometimes count the seconds until anything happens.  This may be more of a problem of the signal having to go through the Live Drive bay more then the remotes problem; also it is somewhat sensitive to angle in relation to the little red IR receiver window. My computer is on my left, I am right handed, and the remote does not like the angle that creates being so close to the IR receiver.

What can I say other then ALL IR remotes for computer that I have used have been a person & ALL RF remotes work superbly!  After all... it's about reliability & IR is somewhat unreliable while RF is extremely reliable; I know they will always work every time!

The ATI A-I-W RF remote works just like all the other wonderful RF remotes I have for my computer that is anywhere, anytime, at any angle, through walls, around corners.

That's where I'm coming from.

[sraymond]

Check out the latest MC9 build... it now has Girder for ATI built-in.

I'm not sure this is accurate - while the MC .gml is included, it is not "learned" for the ATI Remote Wonder.

I had recently suggested that JRiver include a learned .gml (at least the basic play control commands) for the more popular remotes - being those that are already "learned" by the various MC Beta Masters.



Scott-

[Mastiff]

Doc, have you never tried an IRMan? With that I have had no problems what so ever (except for a few times when the power adapter for the extender has been pulled out of the wall), and the lag is, like I said, close to 0. I use the Creative remote in one of the zones, but I have programmed it to Girder and the IRMan. Works flawlessly. So I gues it all depends on how you set it up.

[DocLotus]

Mastiff;

You may be right about IR Man & Girder where you can customize to your hearts content.

But, all I am saying is that ALL the IR remotes for computer that I have EVER used have been a pain.  I'm talking out-of-the-box as the manufactures intended it to work & not Girder with IR Man.

It amazes me how ALL the RF remotes worked correctly without a lot of messing around.

I'm getting so sick of having to screw around with computer products just to get them to do what the manufacturer says they should do.

After 18 years in computers, I'm slowly beginning to adopt an attitude that if I can't get it working in a reasonable amount of time... back it goes to the dealer for a refund or exchange.

[MachineHead]

Any of you have an iPAQ h3955c pocket pc to use as an advanced remote?

Just curious, as the latest ad in a retail outlet says it can be used for this. Not that I'd necessarily spend $500.00 for a remote though. But it will play mp3's as well. Hmmmm...

Also, anyone test a Radeon 9800 pro yet? It's available in the much-to-overpriced Alienware pc's.

[xen-uno]

I'm waiting for the AIW ver to ship, then I'm going for it. As I remarked in another post, it handles higher refresh rates and fps's at high resolutions than the 9700, while only $50 more. I'm there.

10^-27

[DocLotus]

PC World magazine (the ONLY all PC magazine still out there) just had a first look kind of review on the 9800.

Guess what... it was SLOWER then the 9700!  PC Word attributed that to new un-finalized drivers.  They do expect it to be a little faster then the 9700 after the drivers are worked out.

Keep in mind that the 9800 is an incremental improvement for ATI & not the killer big-jump in improvement that the 9700 was over the 8500.

The next really BIG jump in performance for ATI won't come until the 10000 series or something beyond the Radeon.

I just checked the ATI site & they have already announced the 9800 A-I-W Pro.