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[mike0zero]

I am trying to set a custom resolution through MADVR for 2160p23 so that I have none, or very few missing or added frames.

I follow the online procedure and everything seems to work, allowing me to setup a custom resolution for above res with the custom settings showing it will have perfect timing between audio and video clocks, when I go into the MADVR's OSD it shows that the two timings are almost the same, like 0.00001 difference.

However when I look at the 1 frame drop line it says frame drop every 4.70 minutes, yet the custom timings section says no frame drops.

When I go into the Nvidia display panel it also shows that the correct custom resolution has been selected, showing 24hz (which I think is correct number for this custom setting of 23hz).

I have tried selecting other custom resolutions that do not show perfect timing, lets say frame skip every 1-2 hours to see it if makes a difference but it does not it always comes back to missing frames every 4-5 minutes, which is same as original EDID setting.

I have spent hours trying to figure this one out, to be honest took me a while to follow the procedure correctly to make the custom resolutions stick but once you understand this I have no issue in changing the base resolution for a custom one but for some reason it does not seem to work.

Does anyone have any words of advice and if I am doing something fundamentally wrong.

All comments appreciated.

[wer]

Hi Mike,

It doesn't sound like you're doing anything fundamentally wrong, and I do have a few words of advice.

The too long didn't read version: Don't worry about it.  If you want to understand, I'll take the time to explain it, so read on.

First, it is generally preferred to let MC do the mode switching instead of MadVR.  MadVR can have problems resetting the resolution and refresh rate after playback is done, and MC does not.  As long as you have the modes and timings configured on your video card correctly, you will get the same playback results in MadVR regardless of who does the mode switching.  Actual cases where it's essential to let MadVR change modes are rare and can usually be worked around with custom profiles.  Why bother with that?  Because as I said, letting MC change modes is more reliable.  This is not related to your complaint, but it's good advice.

Second, I'm not convinced you actually have a problem.  I understand that calculation you're looking at offends your aesthetic sense, but it may not be a real issue.  Here's why.  That calculation is a prediction based on comparing the video card clock with the audio clock (they never run at perfectly the same rate) and measuring them with the system clock (which also has variance).  One thing you may notice is that as you watch the movie, that interval may start to grow.  It may start out saying every 4.7 minutes, but after a while it may be 7 minutes, then 11, then 41, then 2hrs, etc.  It will change, because it's just a prediction.  If it were saying every few seconds, that would be a real problem.  While all that is going on, if you have VideoClock enabled, it is making small adjustments to the clocks in the background to make sure things stay in sync, and this also affects MadVR's prediction. (VideoClock is good, so turn it on if it's not already.)

Let's set aside the issue as to whether you would actually SEE 1 dropped frame out of every 6768 frames.

There's a difference between MadVR predicting frames might be dropped, and MadVR actually dropping frames. 

What you really need to look at to see if you have a problem are the lines towards the bottom of the OSD, where it reports actual Dropped Frames and Repeated Frames.  There are always drops & repeats when playback is first started, and when you fast forward or rewind.  Ignore those.  Once playback been going for a few seconds, those counters will probably stop increasing.  Hit a Ctrl-R to reset those statistics, and you'll see they both go to zero.

Now WATCH your movie.  Watch it for those 4.7 minutes, or longer.  What you're interested in is if that line towards the bottom showing actual Dropped Frames (it does not display the word actual, but that's what it is) increases.

If you get to 4.7 minutes, and you do not see that Dropped Frame counter increase from 0 to 1, then MadVR's prediction was wrong, pure and simple.  And by that time, the prediction is probably not 4.7 minutes any more.  Keep watching.  If that Dropped Frames counter is not increasing, MadVR is not dropping frames.  Period.

So if you watch for a while, and you see actual Drops or Repeats after you've reset the counters, then yes there's an issue.  Come back with screenshots of your OSD and other config screens, and we'll take a look.

If you see your Dropped Frames counter stays at zero after the reset, then you've learned your lesson, and come back and tell us all is well. 

[rec head]

Thanks for that post wer. I've noticed the same things but luckily didn't let it bother me because I don't see errors.

[tij]

Touché ... I don’t bother with custom resolutions for same reason ... actual drop/repeat frames on my system is zero despite predicted frame drops value ... and I don’t see any jerkiness (which is more important part)

[Manfred]

- check that render time < vsync!  If not, then you get dropped frames and you have to choose a less demanding madVR algorithm.
- Do you have a TV or PC Monitor? My PC Monitor does not provide 23p only 50p or 60p and you have to check what fits better.

[mike0zero]

Hi Wer

Thanks for the detailed response....and so quick, much appreciated from across the pond, I will answer your questions back in order:

Good shout on letting MC switch the resolutions, I used to do it that way and for some reason changed this to MADVR, anyway I will switch it back as a bit of good housekeeping.

I don't use Videoclock as I bitstream to get Dolby Atmos / DTS X as run a full 7.2.4 system, so not an option I'm afraid.

TBH I have already done what you suggest and watch the move to see if I have dropped/ repeated frames and indeed I do, they are pretty much at exactly the time the counter says it will happen, in this case circa. 6.5 minutes, the counter does go up by many hours at first but then comes back down to settle at the 6.5 mins mark, video was running for 45 mins or so.

I have attached my OSD, MADVR has done the switching from desktop...apologies for the top line been cropped, this read 23.98004....output to Sony Laser PJ.

I reset the counter when I started the film but as you can see it has recorded many repeated frames, 8 in total which would concur with what I am seeing on the counter and the tiny judder I noticed on screen when a frame is repeated.

I will test again using JRiver to switch resolution to see if this makes any difference.

Regards

Hi Mike,

It doesn't sound like you're doing anything fundamentally wrong, and I do have a few words of advice.

The too long didn't read version: Don't worry about it.  If you want to understand, I'll take the time to explain it, so read on.

First, it is generally preferred to let MC do the mode switching instead of MadVR.  MadVR can have problems resetting the resolution and refresh rate after playback is done, and MC does not.  As long as you have the modes and timings configured on your video card correctly, you will get the same playback results in MadVR regardless of who does the mode switching.  Actual cases where it's essential to let MadVR change modes are rare and can usually be worked around with custom profiles.  Why bother with that?  Because as I said, letting MC change modes is more reliable.  This is not related to your complaint, but it's good advice.

Second, I'm not convinced you actually have a problem.  I understand that calculation you're looking at offends your aesthetic sense, but it may not be a real issue.  Here's why.  That calculation is a prediction based on comparing the video card clock with the audio clock (they never run at perfectly the same rate) and measuring them with the system clock (which also has variance).  One thing you may notice is that as you watch the movie, that interval may start to grow.  It may start out saying every 4.7 minutes, but after a while it may be 7 minutes, then 11, then 41, then 2hrs, etc.  It will change, because it's just a prediction.  If it were saying every few seconds, that would be a real problem.  While all that is going on, if you have VideoClock enabled, it is making small adjustments to the clocks in the background to make sure things stay in sync, and this also affects MadVR's prediction. (VideoClock is good, so turn it on if it's not already.)

Let's set aside the issue as to whether you would actually SEE 1 dropped frame out of every 6768 frames.

There's a difference between MadVR predicting frames might be dropped, and MadVR actually dropping frames. 

What you really need to look at to see if you have a problem are the lines towards the bottom of the OSD, where it reports actual Dropped Frames and Repeated Frames.  There are always drops & repeats when playback is first started, and when you fast forward or rewind.  Ignore those.  Once playback been going for a few seconds, those counters will probably stop increasing.  Hit a Ctrl-R to reset those statistics, and you'll see they both go to zero.

Now WATCH your movie.  Watch it for those 4.7 minutes, or longer.  What you're interested in is if that line towards the bottom showing actual Dropped Frames (it does not display the word actual, but that's what it is) increases.

If you get to 4.7 minutes, and you do not see that Dropped Frame counter increase from 0 to 1, then MadVR's prediction was wrong, pure and simple.  And by that time, the prediction is probably not 4.7 minutes any more.  Keep watching.  If that Dropped Frames counter is not increasing, MadVR is not dropping frames.  Period.

So if you watch for a while, and you see actual Drops or Repeats after you've reset the counters, then yes there's an issue.  Come back with screenshots of your OSD and other config screens, and we'll take a look.

If you see your Dropped Frames counter stays at zero after the reset, then you've learned your lesson, and come back and tell us all is well. 

[rec head]

Not exactly what you were looking for but if you want to use Video Clock on everything except Atmos material you can setup two zones and use zone 1 for Atmos (bitstream) and zone 2 for everything else. Then setup a Zone Switch rule to automatically switch between them. It is what I do which means anyone should be able to figure out. I have a custom ATMOS field. Any file with Atmos in that field will bitstream to the correct zone.

[wer]

Ok Mike, the first thing I see is that your refresh rate is wrong.

Your target refresh rate should be 23.976Hz, not 23.98Hz.  23.976 is correct for bluray.  That will make a difference.  23.98 is only "close" and will inevitably result in dropped or repeated frames.  You see there is a line in the OSD that tells you the exact movie frame rate.

Rendering time is acceptably below the vsync/frame time.  That's good.

What video card are you using?  You'll need to ensure 23.976 is properly defined as a refresh rate.  Depending on the card/driver you may need to enter custom timings to do that.

By the way, you can setup different zones in MC so that only Atmos/DTS-X are bitstreamed so that you can decode internally and use VideoClock for everything else.  That would be the best configuration probably. (Edit: I see rec head posted that same tip while I was typing)

[mike0zero]

Hi Wer

I see your point on the refresh rate but my understanding was that is the display and composition rate are very close that should give you no repeats/ skipped frames. I used to own a vertex 2 and when I measured a Vero 4K and Apple TV4K they both measured at 23.973 and neither skipped or repeated I presume due to video and audio clock being in sync which is the most important part?

Anyway I am re installing windows and getting some fresh drivers for the Nvidia 23.976 video card to see if that helps.

I will try and see if I can add a custom resolution in the Nvidia section and set it exactly 23.976 but not sure if that is possible.

[mike0zero]

A little update.

I have reinstalled everything but same issue still exists as before, however this time I noticed a slightly different behaviour.

When I started to set up a custom resolution, I pressed "Custom Resolution" tab within Madvr and selected the 23Hz setting to get the timings, it let me do that so I then selected a 4K 23 Hz movie and let it play, whilst playing I noticed that the display was something like 23.9757 and the composition rate was 23.976Hz, I left it running for 30 mins and got no repeated or dropped frames....Eureka, or so I thought!!!!

When I came out of MC the resolution stayed at 4K 23Hz so within Nvidia control panel I changed from the custom res shown under PC settings (3840 x 2160 at 24Hz) to native 1080p 60hz, when I went back into MC and replayed the same movie it did not chose the custom resolution, even though it looked like it did, reason I know is that the display is back to the old setting of 23.980Hz...strange and no matter what I did I could not get back the to the original 23.9757, when I went back into Nvidia control panel the previous custom res under PC header was gone


Does any of this make sense as I am struggling to understand what is happening.

[wer]

I think I understand you.

Have you forgotten what I told you in the beginning about letting MC change the display mode?  Try that for starters.  Disable the madvr mode changing, and ensure MC will change to the "23Hz" option in its config.

Have you actually set up a custom resolution in your Nvidia control panel?  You might have to use the "custom timings" option to get it perfect. Those settings can vary depending on your display device.

If you google "Nvidia custom resolution 23.976" you will see that there are lots of guides out there to walk you through it.