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[soli]

Hi,
I'm getting strange behavior when I lookup lyrics for a file in my library:

If the file has no lyrics and lyrics are found then the original file is deleted (recycle bin) and a new one with the lyrics is created.
Why isn't MC just updating the metadata of the file with the lyrics?

I have 'lookup lyrics automatically' and 'update tags when file info changes' on

Is there a setting that I missed?

[RoderickGI]

The current version of MC, MC26.0.69, does not do that. The lyrics lookup just downloads the lyrics and puts them into the [Lyrics] field, which of course is set to be saved to the file tag.

If what you describe actually happens on your system, something else is probably doing it. Unless the original files are write-protected, and then possibly MC is creating a new version, updating it with the Lyrics, and then recycling the old version. I do have a vague recollection of such things being reported in the past. If I try to collect Lyrics for a write-protected file in the current MC26 version, I get the message as per the attached image, and nothing is done to the file. The Lyrics are saved in the MC Library though.

Check if your files are write-protected. Also, check if some security software or something else is getting involved. Maybe upgrade to MC26 if your current version is doing that. Search the Release Notes to see if there was a fix for such behaviour.

[soli]

Hi,

the files are not read only.

I downloaded MC 26.0.30 and got the same problem...
I also read the release notes on MC26 and they do not mention anything about files deleted when updating lyrics
The files that have this problem have no number of plays (this is the first time that I played them)

I have the same problem for files on my C: drive and on the NAS so I have no clue how to check for an external program doing that.

Any ideas?

[soli]

I was not able to reproduce the problem on my laptop with MC 26.0.69
My desktop running MC 26.0.69 (I updated MC) keeps sending the files to the recycle bin and creating new ones with the lyrics.

Is it an external program doing that?
Any ideas on how to find out?

tks

[wer]

Is it an external program doing that?
Any ideas on how to find out?

One thing to consider: is this happening to any other files on your system or NAS? How can you really be sure?

I strongly suspect there is more here than meets the eye.  Before getting into it deeper, I would want to see a video recording of your desktop, showing MC and Windows explorer, so that we could see exactly what you're doing with your mouse as you "lookup lyrics" and so we could see the file magically get deleted and appear in your recycle bin.  It is a very strange scenario you describe. 

Short of that, to answer your questions:

1. Yes, that is very likely.
2. You should consult with an expert who has access, at least remote access, to your PC.  The process table, registry, startup folders, task scheduler, anti-virus, and other configuration settings will need to be examined, by someone who knows what he's looking at.  A program taking these actions could come from almost anywhere.  There is also software one can install to monitor file system activity to identify what processes are deleting or modifying your files. You need someone who will not be perplexed by this and who will know where to start. It could be an excruciatingly long and tedious process to do it by email or forum.

Good luck.

[soli]

Hi again,

as per the log that I managed to get it seems that MC has something to do with it
on the NAS logs we can see that MC does this:

reads the file 2 times
renames the file to xxxx.m4a to xxxx (1).m4a
creates xxxx.m4a
writes xxx.m4a
deletes xxxx (1).m4a

I think this is the process to update the metadata and for some reason on my system after all this is done I have the xxxx (1).m4a on my recycle bin. It makes sense since the step is delete xxxx (1).m4a....
but why is the update process creating a new file?

This only happens if I have the "lookup lyrics..." checked and to files that have no "lyrics"

[RoderickGI]

As I said above, I have seen this sort of issue before in the forum. I just can't remember the cause or solution. I can't find a good thread on it either.

If the files aren't read-only, check permissions on the NAS carefully. It could just be that MC no longer has write permission. Or the Windows doesn't, as MC uses Windows file functions, and as per your image, those are Windows File Transfer events. That is, the issue is happening outside MC control. But I'm not sure of that.

However, an upgrade to the firmware on a NAS has caused issues like this in the past. See https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,74707.msg506730.html#msg506730
Have you made any recent firmware changes on the NAS, or allowed them to happen automatically?
Have you made any other changes to your NAS recently?

The other possibility is MC having problems with special characters such as "é" in file or path names. Some versions of MC had issues with special characters, or appeared to, particularly when they were stored on different file systems, which handled such characters differently. But only one of the examples in your image ha an accented character, so maybe that isn't it.

What exact version of MC are you running?


But first, I would just reboot the NAS and the MC PC, and maybe the router and all devices between the NAS and PC. That may do nothing, but it may clear whatever is going on.

Please also confirm that this doesn't happen if you make changes to any other tag that is written to the file. Perhaps add some comments to a file and see if the same thing occurs. If this only happens with the Lyrics lookup, maybe the file handling for files on a NAS hasn't been done correctly for just the Lyrics functionality. I know you said 'This only happens if I have the "lookup lyrics..." checked and to files that have no "lyrics"', but just to be sure.

[soli]

Update

Nas firmware is on automatic update and has the latest version
I'm running MC 26.0.69
Files are not ready only

I've been having this problem for several months or since lyrics lookup was implemented I'm not sure.

Special characters are not a problem since I run Lyrics lookup on thousands of files and once they update I have a copy of them in my recycle bin (most of them have no special characters)

Simple solution is to disable the recycle bin in the NAS and do a Lyrics Lookup for the entire library ~40K files and then enable the recycle bin...

[RoderickGI]

Well hopefully someone from JRiver will look at your issue, and maybe find a bug in the file handling. That would be a better solution for all users in the long term.

But if you are comfortable turning off the recycling bin on your NAS and running the lookups, fine. You do have media file backups, right?

[JimH]

In my opinion, it's extremely unlikely that this is caused by a bug in MC.  We're not going to chase it.

[JimH]

Can you reproduce a problem without the NAS involved?

You have two similar problems in two different threads.  I may combine them or close one.

[soli]

Hi jim,

you can close the old one relating the Theater View.

Regarding this problem I was not able to reproduce it with local files on my PC or my laptop.
The problem appears when I update a tag of a file in my NAS either from my PC or my Laptop (both running win 10).
I get this problem whenever a non "system Tag" is updated (ie Genre, Album, etc).
The problem does not occur if a "system tag" such as "Number of plays" is updated.

I guess the problem is related to how windows or MC "talks" to NAS when updating tags...
I have smb 3 set up in the NAS and I have disabled SMB 1 in windows

I have no clue how to fix this, any help appreciated

I'm running win 10 and a Synology NAS with DSM 6.2.2-24922

[RoderickGI]

It is very strange that it happens with some tags but not others. The only difference between, for example, [Genre], [Album], and [Number Plays] is that the first two are strings and the last is an integer. That should make no difference. They are all written to the file tags, at least in the default MC setup. You haven't turned off writing [Number Plays] to file tags, have you?

In the past, this sort of issue has been fixed by downgrading the NAS firmware to an earlier version that did not have the problem, as I mentioned above. If you can work out when this started to happen, downgrade to a firmware before that time. As you have NAS firmware upgrades set to automatic, a recent upgrade may have caused the problem. I hope that the NAS includes a log of such upgrades, so you can see when they happened.

Or take up the issue with Synology. From your earlier image, it looks like the NAS itself is doing the additional file operations when Windows tries to update a file. There could be a setting in the NAS for how it handles file updates or edits. I don't know. Synology should know.

[marko]

Just thinking out loud here...

I seem to recall reading somewhere here, some years ago, that for some file types, the 'tag block' in the file needed to be at the either the end or the beginning of the file, I don't remember which, and if it was in the wrong place, MC would rewrite the file in order to place the tag block in the correct place....

Could something like that be going on here?

[soli]

I ran more tests

You were right RoderickGI for some reason Number of plays was not writing to the file.
After I changed it I got the same problem every time it was updated.

That got me thinking and I copied a word doc to the NAS open it, made some changes and saved it back to the NAS and of course i got the same problem! it has nothing to do with MC!

It's 100% a NAS problem, I'm thinking it could be related to some sort of automatic back up or time machine

Tks for all the help!!

Sorry for wasting your time....

[RoderickGI]

Thanks for sharing what you found Soli. That helps when people have issues in future.

Marko, that was a great thought. I also believe I read something like that. Maybe that is still an issue in certain cases. I think it was WMA files, and I think it was made transparent to the user. But, with a NAS involved, it could still be an issue. Just not this time!