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[globetrotters1]

Hello everyone,

I try to do the tag management of classical music database entries on a client computer which has two 4K monitors and much more space to research.
After each processed CD I synchronize the data with the server.

I have two problems:
1) Sometimes an already set tag value just disappears without any action from my side... why ?
2) Tags with multiple entries work fine to enter. But from the 2nd value onwards the 'add' box is not visible anymore as it is hidden by the next tag
    How can I fix that ?

Who can help ? Help is appreciated !

[globetrotters1]

Tags disappear when entering in client... why

It seems you know that problem... right ?

[RoderickGI]

1) Is the MC Server on 24/7, or do you allow it to sleep?

If you are working on the MC Client and the MC Server goes to sleep "underneath" it, then the only way to wake the MC Server from the MC Client is to reconnect to the MC Server. For example by double-clicking on the MC Server under Playing Now. When you reconnect from the MC Client to the MC Server, a fresh copy of the MC Server Library is downloaded to the MC Client, overwriting the copy that was there previously. All tag changes in the previous MC Client copy of the MC Server Library will then be lost.

So when doing that sort of work, don't allow the MC Server to sleep. Or alternately wake the MC Server directly (at the keyboard), or use a separate WOL application on the MC Client to send Wake commands to the MC Server. I think the MC Client will then retain its existing connection and hence not refresh its copy of the MC Server Library.

If the MC Server never sleeps, and this problem still happens, please explain your workflow in detail so that we can help.



2) I don't understand your second question, although it sounds like some issues that have happened for some people in previous versions.

What version of MC are you running?
Post an image of the problem so we can understand what you mean.

[globetrotters1]

Hi and thanks for your remarks ! Appreciated !

to 1) the main server never goes to sleep. It gets turned on in the morning and shut off at night.
       The strange thing is that I enter a tag value on a client and sometimes it just doesn't 'stick', if you know what I mean
       I enter several tag values and look at the screen and often a tag value I already entered is just blank again (which makes me mad)

to 2) Tag values where you can enter more than one value (like performers in classical music) have an ADD box to enter the next performer
       Entering one performer doesn't move the whole rest of the window down, so that you can see what you enter
       If needed I can make some screen copies to show the problem

The first problem is a real problem, the second one is just only annoying

Thanks for your response

[RoderickGI]

1) I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. If the server doesn't sleep while you are doing tagging, and sometimes tags are remembered (they "stick"), but sometimes they are not remembered, then I suspect that you aren't saving the tags in the first place when you edit them. But MC just about always saves the tags you have entered, no matter how you enter them. So you are going to need to describe exactly what you do (files selection, clicks, tabs, enters, escapes, etc.) to reproduce the issue.

If it only happens sometimes, you must be doing something different, sometimes. If it happened all the time, that would be easier to understand. You would just need to turn on Authentication on the MC Server, using a Username and Password, and disable "Read-only Authentication".

2) I'm going to need a picture or two of this. Are you tagging in a Panes View, with checkboxes next to Artists, or similar? MC doesn't have a standard field called "Performers", so I assume that you are talking about the [Artists] field that you are adding to, or a custom field you have created.

[globetrotters1]

I'll make screen copies of both problems I mentioned

Problem 2 also occurs on the main server, I tried it

So bear with me please

[globetrotters1]

Here you go... Problem 1

In attached picture 1 you see that I already entered value for orchestra (Teatro Lirico)

After entering Composition Type (Sonata) the already entered value of the orchestra simply disappears

Sometimes this tag, sometimes another tag... sometimes all tags 'stick'

Isn't that strange ?

I just doubt that entering tag values on a client doesn't make much sense if you cannot be sure that the entered data is really there

[globetrotters1]

to Problem 2 (happens on server and client)

In picture 1 you see how it look like if I start entering the Performers (by the way, I started with MC 10 - then you had no tags for classical music, so I created my own ones... and with around half a million tracks stored in MC I have no need to change everything to the 'new' tag system)

Picture 1 - the ADD field is visible

In picture 2 you see how it look like after entering the first performer

Picture 2 - the window doesn't get updated correctly, the ADD field disappears mostly

In picture 3 you see how it looks like after entering the second performer

Picture 3 - the ADD field is completely gone or hidden (moved behind the tag 'Instruments')

It's easily to reproduce

[Matt]

Problem 2 will be fixed next build.  We haven't been able to reproduce problem 1.

Thanks for the help.

[globetrotters1]

Thanks a lot, Matt !

Problem 1 doesn't happen all the time, probably all 10 to 15 minutes once
And it's not clear which tag field disappears
Sometimes it's this, sometimes that
My guess would be that you re-paint the window every now and then and a tag value which has been entered but not been stored just disappears

My solution for now is to sync changes with the library server after each processed CD (after having checked that all values are on the screen)
That works for now, but it's not a real solution

Thanks

[globetrotters1]

And another thought (which might have something to do with problem 1):

When I sync changes with the main library server, sometimes it's instantaneously, sometimes it needs like one minute to search for changes to be able to update the main library, although I didn't enter many tags

[RoderickGI]

A picture, or five, is worth a thousand words!

I was able to reproduce Problem 2 as well, once I added enough Soloists to a sample track. One problem down!

Problem 1 is going to be harder. Is your network 100% reliable? Maybe it is dropping packets and/or connection at times, and hence the update from the Client to the Server gets lost, then the server updates the Client.

Is the time and date on both PCs exactly the same? If the time is wrong on one, then maybe the updates get rejected because it is considered from an earlier version of the Library?

I guess the other thing is, are you sure that you are pressing enter at some stage to save the tags? You can generally tab from field to field, but eventually you need to press enter, at least of the last field. Well, you can tab through a field and escape on the next field. A tab should save the previous fields. There was a lot of discussion on this when introducing the new "experimental" tag window, and I thought all those issues were ironed out.


Maybe if you note carefully the keystrokes you use to edit tags, and see if there is a repeatable sequence that causes the issue. I can't make it happen here.

Also, I noticed that you have customised the "experimental" tag window field sequence, in addition to using quite a number of custom User Fields. I'm wondering if that has some bearing on this issue. Matt?


PS: I think that the synchronisation works very quickly sometimes because the Client has already recently done the sync automatically. When it takes a while to gather what needs to be synced, that usually means that it hasn't happened automatically for a while. At least that is my experience.

[globetrotters1]

Hi RoderickGI,

1. My network consists of 6 computers, all have the same automatic Internet day and time. MC runs on the main server and sometimes on any of the other     computers as clients. Only on one client I have dual 4k monitors, which I want to use to do my tagging work. They have all fixed IPs and work perfectly together

2. I always press <ENTER> to move to the next field. Sometimes it is necessary to switch back and forth between different tag fields. For instance     entering a compiled CD with different pieces of different composers performed by different orchestras etc

3. The entered data disappear only sometimes. Sometimes it's the orchestra field, sometimes performers (which is bad because sometimes it takes really     a lot of time to enter all performers) or sometimes others - but I'm pretty sure that it has something to do with an update from the server or a repaint of the window. I'm also unable to reproduce this phenomenon in a consistent way. It's just nerve-wrecking if something already entered just silently disappears. I've been working tags on the main server for many years now (since MC version 10) and there it never happens, it's just a problem on a client

4. I think it might be a problem of the synchronization, if MC does an automatic sync now and then. Until now I thought I have to sync manually after having entered tag data for like 15 or 30 minutes - in case something bad happens, power outage or whatever. It would be probably better to do an automatic sync when I switch to another CD. But I don't know if that would be possible for you guys.

Thanks

[RoderickGI]

I did a little testing again on my Client installation. The only way I saw a value disappear was when entering values into a list field (Soloists), and pressing tab instead of enter when adding an additional value, when the cursor was in the Add field. Also, Pressing escape instead of enter after typing multiple values lost all new entries. This is expected behaviour, I believe. You must save each new value to the list via the enter key as each new value entered into the Add field, and then you must save all new values entered via pressing the enter key in the empty Add field when all entries have been completed.

More concisely: You have to press enter to move a value from the Add field to the list above, and when all values have been entered, press enter again with the Add field empty to save new values to the field.

So basically I can't reproduce what you are seeing, just like Matt.

You can sync manually at any time you wish, but the automatic sync will happen in the background as well. If you rely on the automatic sync, don't close the Client copy of MC for a while after you finish tagging. Or be proactive and manually sync after finishing tagging, and before closing the MC Client.

Just to sure as well, we are talking about the "Sync Changes with Library Server" function, found in the top menu under the "File > Library" menu, and as a button when the Library is selected under Playing Now, correct? We are not talking about the  "File > Library > Sync Library" function? Because that second function is a completely different thing.

[globetrotters1]

Thanks RoderickGI,

1) I only use the sync function you mentioned first - 'sync changes with library server'

2) Thanks for letting me know that also automatic syncs are processed

3) I always press <ENTER> the way you are describing it
    Normally I move around with the mouse, because in most classical music cases I have to jump around onto the different fields back and forth

But I will carefully watch my movements and get back to you if it happens again (and hopefully it can be reproduced somehow)

Best, thanks, help appreciated !