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Author Topic: ebook support  (Read 1149 times)

park

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ebook support
« on: May 09, 2020, 11:00:19 am »

Hi,

I see that MC has import ability for ebooks.
I have most of my ebooks catalogued through Calibre, and i see that it stores metadata in an opf file and cover art as cover.jpg sidecar files. I also see through the "edit books" functionality of Calibre that most of my books have the cover stored internally in the book as : images/cover.jpg

As good as Calibre is, I would rather browse and tag my books with Media Center. I saw this thread about the work required to catalogue using Media Center:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,87545.0.html

I see that now Media Center can import the books without needing to do some of those first steps, but it seems there is still an awful lot of manual work required.

Is there any chance that jriver could read/write to the same opf files to get the necessary book metadata into MC?
Or add an import function that would parse opf files and create jriver's own xml sidecar files from them.

Really I am happy to tag them all again with Jrivers own tagging system, but I would really like the book summary(description), author, and cover art to come in without manual work by me.
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ghappe-MC

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 09:41:05 am »

Hello there,

Hope you're all in good health.

I second this request most strongly, i have Calibre and I hate it, however, i have some 40k books and there's no way i would transfer the descriptions by hand. This would take me about a year. >:(

And needles to say, I'll be happy to pay for such a solution.

Kind greetings,

Guido
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Matt

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 10:34:11 am »

Would you be willing to send me a book and a sidecar data file?  I'm matt at jriver.

I'll look at how hard it would be to add support for pulling more metadata.

Thanks.
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wer

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 12:26:51 pm »

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or dissuade from feature enhancements that would make people happy, but I think it's good if we have our expectations aligned.  I've been a happy Calibre user for many years so I just want to point something out about metadata in Calibre.

Calibre does indeed have a couple of "sidecar" files.  There's an OPF file as mentioned by Park, and there is also an image file for the book's cover.  Importing all the metadata from the OPF (there is both "standard" and calibre-specific metadata involved; the Calibre-specific metadata must also by parsed, because since Calibre is so popular a lot of E-readers actually use the Calibre metadata, things like the book being part of a series) should pose no challenge.

However, if one is going to do any EDITING of metadata in MC, it must be understood that it is insufficient to write the metadata back to those sidecar files.

The metadata is ALSO stored inside the book file itself.  Now an EPUB is just a ZIP file renamed, but other formats are different.  I only use EPUBs, and if I happen to get a book in another format I convert it to EPUB.  There is another OPF file inside the EPUB, that contains the same metadata as the sidecar file.  That OPF must also be modified if the metadata modifications are to be picked up by the E-Reader.

The OPF inside the EPUB file is not a duplicate of the sidecar OPF.  It contains the same metadata, (although there are some small differences) and it also contains the contains the manifest, which must be preserved and which the sidecar OPF does not contain.

Calibre makes this a two-step process for speed. Normally when you edit metadata, it works on the sidecar files, so everything is nice and quick.  There is a second step to embed the metadata into the E-book. That step would be performed if you want to read the e-book in a reader other than Calibre, or if you are exporting to a portable E-book app like Marvin.

So since the OP is asking to be able to edit the metadata in MC, I wanted to make sure the complexities were understood.

Forgive me if this was previously addressed elsewhere, as I don't use MC's E-Book support...
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ghappe-MC

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 03:03:02 am »

Hello forum members,

Alright, I'll have to admit that i haven't been very active on this forum since I started to use Media Center in 2007.

Therefore I was really surprised to receive a mail from a long lost Spanish college reprimanding me that, in the good old days, i would not have left it with just a statement.

And he is right, I should be more specific and since I haven presently, being locked down, a lot of time on my hands i will stand corrected.

The subject is the tagging of e-books, that, we, according to popular belief, al do, or have done, in Calibre so the question is" why would we convert our existing e-book metadata to Media Center and, if yes, how would we do that.

First of all I like to say that Calibre is a very complete piece of software and it does everything any e-book enthusiast wants and probably a lot more, however, it has one setback that is a topic that's almost permanently on the their forum and that is that the user has non, or very little, control over how, or where the book files are saved.

I've been reading lots of posts on this subject and it seems that the more Multimedia files one has the more important it becomes to have complete control over filename conventions , placing and footprints.

secondly, I don't think is a good idea to obtain the relevant data from existing Calibre databases cause that's sounds a bit unfair to de developers and would only make you completely dependent on it for future expansion or updates.

And, in regard to user "WER"'s excellent post I've to say that I'm well aware of the fact that most e-book formats contain some metadata of their own but i think editing that data is not what's at stake here.

If you would do the editing of e-book files in MC you would need a lot of code because there are so many e-book formats and it would also require a lot of maintenance and therefore be an expensive future.

What is, i.m.h.o. a good starting point is de ability to obtain metadata on e-books in MC' library and corresponding sidecar files so managing and searching your e-book's could be done in MC and therefore in a familiar, and excellent, interface.

If you must edit the metadata in the book files itself you can use a external editor, dedicated to that task, but i would not bother about that because many e-readers don't handle this data anyhow.

So, what's the solution. Indeed, persuade JRiver to create a e-book scraper for Media Center from scratch that can be used to obtain much, if not all, of the metadata that we desire for our e-books and is easy to maintain.

Fortunately Media Center has already most of the required software on Board in the "Get movies en Tvshows info" sub-section of the program. Al that is needed is a media type called e-book to enable the choice between video and e-books  and the lookup of all available data from an external source, based on , say, author and name tags, in to the relevant fields, just as movie data from the IMDB.

A good candidate for a source would be goodreads.com.

It has metadata for some 70% of the 40K e-books in my MC library and supplies developers with a very good API to access the relevant data based on a search string provided.

This data could then be examined and saved in the relevant MC tags and therefore in the sidecar files.

But, if you prefer a co-existence between an Calibre installation and your MC library? consider that Calibre database is actually an SQLite database which has a public domain API and could therefore be used to obtain data from Calibre to MC but data synchronization could be complex after an initial data-transfer.

So, in my opinion the focus of obtaining e-book metadata in MC would be in a once only transfer from relevant (looked-up) data from an external source into MC and not in editing the e-book files themselves.

And, if such a future would be made available I'll be happy to test it against my 40K e-books and i would not complain if it resulted in a higher price for MC anyway.

Please feel free to (dis)agree or comment on the above and stay in good health.
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BigSpider

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 03:29:12 pm »

I like Calibre, it is very succinct and efficient at what it does (and also very cheap). I can't see JRiver's motivation to get into this sector unless they are prepared to develop an extensive suite of metadata extractors and reader software for the many forms of ebook. Probably wrong again but what the heck!
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ghappe-MC

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2020, 01:35:11 am »

 Good morning,

The question is not if you like, or dislike, Calibre. As stated in my post i consider the fact that i can't put the files how and where i want them a major setback. I've a total of 750K of media files (some 700K in MC), sitting in multiple versions on 65 TB of disk space and i would prefer to keep that organized the way i want to and manage them through one and the same interface. (The options in MC to organize your files on disk could hardly be better or more extensive) :)

An "extensive suite of metadata extractors" is not necessary because you would import the file names and locations into the MC library and do all the metadata enrichment there, not in the original files.

In fact you could "link" any kind of data files into MC and create the relevant metadata in the library regardless of how the data files look themselves and start (evoke) any reader or editing software from media center.

An example is the send to option which I use to open a video file into "Subtitle editor" or "mkvtoolnix".

And for reading epub files I use "Genius PDF reader" or even the "Calibre reader" by setting the playback method in the file types options in MC.

So, without any alteration to the MC software you could have a different external program opening every kind of file-type described in the "media type" tag in the library. (There are already many file-types listed there but a few more or the ability to add your own would be nice).

So the fact that there are multiple file formats is irrelevant as long as there are external programs who can work with them and can be started on a one file at a time basis, from within MC.

What I would like and highly appreciate is software to enrich the metadata in the MC library, not in the actual data files.

Greetings, Guido
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ghappe-MC

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2020, 03:53:08 am »

Good morning World,

Did a bit of research on this subject last night with some front-end apps on the Calibre database (SQLite). Creating a view that includes the major data and exporting this to, for example, a *.csv file was easy enough however, in the comment data field is a lot of info (text) that i would not have in my e-book section of MC, so importing from a Calibre database looks feasible but not what i have in mind.

Looking at the goodreads api, and the terms of use, learns that it does not support en mass downloading of the, very good, data that is stored down there.

Restrictions may possibly to be negotiated but it will most likely cost money and so far it does not look that the MC users are willing to bare the costs.

So that leaves me, for the foreseeable future, the choice between living with Calibre or inserting the data manually, not a good dilemma, but what else is there?

Still, the weather here's perfect so what the heck.

Greetings,

Guido
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JimH

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2020, 05:26:28 pm »

Build 91 is on the Latest Channel now.  It has a couple of OPF file changes.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,125806.msg871524.html#msg871524
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ghappe-MC

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Re: ebook support
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2020, 08:11:36 am »

Build 91 - If you restructure the epub files you lose the link with the opf file and therefore the ability to do any tagging.
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