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[larryrup]

Is there a way to export a JRiver playlist in a format Itunes will will accept?  I'll put the music files in a common directory for ITunes to find, so I'm only looking for the ability for ITunes to read songs in the playlist and find them in the path, in the order of the JRiver orignal playlist.

I realize I'm going in the wrong direction.  I have not been able to get JRiver to convert flac files to Apple lossless using the Handheld sync functionality (write files to the IPOD in one operation).  I added the supported file type of mp3;m4p;alac in the appropriate place.  JRiver is writing the files and copying them to the IPOD in a FLAC (the original) format.  So the only way I can load up a IPOD classic is to have JRiver convert to Apple lossless and write these files to a directory on a hard drive, then point Itunes to this media folder location, then sync......but I am trying to maintain the playlists (and the order) that I have in JRiver for them.  See snip of settings.

Thanks

Larry

[wer]

Have you looked at the dialog box that appears when you select File->Export Playlist from the menu?

[larryrup]

Thanks for the reply, and yes I have.  See further down.

What I think I need is an understanding of  handheld utility.  I've read the Wiki and the posts on this topic,  I'm testing allot of options. It seems for what I want to do (copy playlist tracks to IPOD, in order, converting non Apple supported formats to M4A), I think I need to use the handheld utility.  I have this conversion/copying to the IPOD working now, at least for a small test playlist, the track order of the playlist in MC was not preserved in Itunes. Further in the MC settings,  it seems any entry in the supported file type field results in a File Not Supported error on the details view.  I tried all the suggestions I could find that were posted.  Also, the list of Playlist types has no mention of an Apple accepted format.  MPL seems to work.  There were allot to try.

There is no mention of a Itunes export or option when right clicking on the playlist in MC.  I now see the Itunes options in the File drop down menu.  I see this works but only brings in those files in a supported IPOD format (MP3).  I know I can convert them, add them to the MC library, but I do not want to replace the FLAC files with M4A,  which means moving stuff back and forth.  Considerable effort.   MC was silent on the 24 or so that were in a FLAC format and part of the export to Itunes test.  Didn't convert or copy them (I understand....there was not place to set a convert operation).   I have been using the convert format utility and saving the playlists in a separate folder in a supported Apple format.  I was able to drag the converted  files into the Itunes playlist and while that worked, they went into the playlist in the order they appeared in Win Explorer.  Win Explorer puts them in the folder however the sort columns were set, and I don't think there is a setting to have them list in the order they are converted and saved in the folder.  As far as I know, there is no seq number filed in the file I can make visible in explorer and then sort by it.  I see where I can manually move the tracks around in a playlist, but it's manual, pretty much track by track.  Not an option for me.

I should be able to deal with this. 

For the suggestion box.....add conversion options in the File/Export Playlist to Itunes section (and add the export to Itunes item on a right click menu .  No idea how to get a MC playlist to Itunes in the same track order. 

Truth be told, I'm only dealing with this IPOD as a favor for my sister...I think IPOD has gone the way of CD drives.  Understandable that effort spent on IPOD functionality at this point is questionable.  They are pretty cool, but USB sticks are pretty useful and pretty cheap.

Larry

[wer]

Well, it sounds like you expect MC to have some sort of specific export option for an itunes-native playlist.  The correct approach when trying to transfer data between programs is to know (or research) what file formats (playlists, in this case) they have in common.

If you had done a google search for importing playlists in itunes, you would have learned itunes supports the M3U format. That is what you should use when exporting in MC.

The order of the playlist WILL be maintained.

I don't know how familiar you are with either software package, so if you import a playlist into itunes that way and believe the playlist order is not maintained, I have to wonder if you know what the playlist order actually is...

First, you're wasting your time looking for the seq number in explorer or in the tags. The seq number exists only in the context of the playlist, and in the playlist file or its structure. Also, the order the music files are displayed in explorer is absolutely irrelevant, as is the order in which you convert file formats, as is the order in which you add the music files to itunes. You are confused on that issue.  Order, or Sequence, only exists with the playlist.

In MC the playlist has exactly one "official" order, the Seq order.  This is the order in which the files are added to the playlist, period. It can be then manually changed by drag and drop, or by other means. You will know the Seq order of the playlist by looking at the Seq(uence) column.  The Seq order is the order files will be in the M3U file, and the order itunes will have them in. If you want to see the true order of the playlist, sort by the seq column.

Now since I don't know how much you know, it may be that you might not realize in MC you can DISPLAY the playlist in any order you want, by clicking on the column headers.  This will make it look like the playlist is in a certain order (like if you click on the name column, the list will be sorted alphabetically by name) but this does NOT actually change the order of the playlist.  Look at the seq numbers when you sort the playlist different ways: they don't change.

In this way, someone could think itunes is not respecting the playlist order, because the itunes order does not match how things are displayed in MC.  But in fact, they are simply displaying the playlist OUT OF ORDER in MC.  There is an right click option to update the seq to match the displayed order, and there are other ways to change the seq order.  Google jriver playlists to learn more.

Getting the music files themselves into an iPod compatible format is a different matter. It seems you have figured that part out.

If you export the playlists in M3U format, and use the "File->Library->Import Playlist" option in Itunes, the order will be maintained. Just make sure you truly have them in the correct playlist order first, and that the files referenced in the M3U exist in the Itunes library.  If the files specified in the M3U playlist do not already exist in the Itunes library, itunes will ignore them.  If you don't have the itunes-format file in your MC library, then when you export the playlist, the playlist will reference the FLAC file, and Itunes will ignore it.  You can do a search & replace on the M3U file to change the file extension and paths to what Itunes expects.

(I will mention that on the MC file menu there is an option "Export to Itunes" that is a one-stop solution for this, but it requires you to have the Itunes-compatible files (MP3, ALAC, etc) in your MC library. Itunes does not support FLAC, and if you use this function to export FLAC files or a playlist that contains FLAC files, Itunes quietly ignores them, so you get nothing.)

So if the goal is to import into itunes an MC playlist where the files are FLAC (a format Itunes does not support), and you refuse to keep the itunes-compatible files in your library, you basically have to do this:

1. Convert the files to MP3 (or whatever)
2. Put the MP3 files somewhere, and import them into itunes
3. Export the playlist as M3U
4. Edit the M3U playlist using Search & replace to change the .flac extension to .mp3, and fixing the path to the files to match the path to the mp3 files.  This takes seconds.
5. Import the edited playlist into itunes.

You're finding a lot of faults with MC in this situation, and it is certainly not a perfect program, but the reality is you wouldn't be having any of these issues if Itunes supported FLAC.  MC will work with pretty much anything. Apple dictates you use their preferred formats.

I hope this helps.

Good luck...

[larryrup]

wer:  Thanks for the reply.  I love the product.  When I'm posting something like this, it is because I am having a problem and can use some help.  That in itself is not blaming the product for short falls.  On the conteray, a product like JRiver with loads of functionality, adds by that very nature some complexity.  Loads of functionality is what makes JRiver great.  Software doesn't always work the way one user expects it might.  Nor is software as usable as it can be.  Nature of software!

I now see that letting the Drives and Devices recognize the IPOD and syncing by choosing playlists and choosing to convert to a supported Apple format works just fine.  This moves playlists in full and preserves the playlist order.

Where trouble started, was choosing to "Add a Device". I am working with multiple IPODs and correctly or mistakenly  wanted to preserve all the settings for one, by "adding a device" for a second IPOD.  When you do this, three things changed:  1)If you choose to convert to ALAC, then when syncing, if MP3's are part of the playlist the entire playlist is not moved to the IPOD,  2)The options now asked for a playlist format.  By trail and error I figured out the correct playlist format.  There are seven varients of a M3U format and plus other formats. I thought a helpful suggestion for the developers was to note which one was supported by the IPOD/ITunes.  Support for the IPOD playlist is there just not noted as such.  I did due diligence with a search on Google for supported playlist types for IPOD/ITunes extensions, searches listed ITunes playlists as xlm.  That did not help here, and I don't know if you should expect dopey users like me to do this. 3)  No matter what music format extensions I entered in the Supported Format field, (and I did research the forums and cut and pasted the suggested expression for this) I got format errors when syncing.

All of this is avoided if you just let Media Center list the IPOD and choose it.  Works great. 

We know Apple's lack of support for FLAC is abhorrent and continues because Apple can get away with it.  Itunes is a marketing tool to sell product.  JRiver  is around for people that love music and need tools to manage it.   I did not intend nor think I was critical, but understand it is in the eyes of the reader.  Regardless, can't go wrong with these rules for support: Ignore criticism; make sure you understand the question; provides answers with steps appropriate for the user it is intended for.

I'm a enthusiastic JRiver supporter.

Regards,

Larry

[wer]

I'm wondering, since you're advising me of your rules for support, if you're perhaps thinking I'm a JRiver staffer who's supposed to be helping you.  Just to be clear, I don't work for JRiver, I'm just a user like you. 

I don't use the ipod sync myself since it doesn't work with the new IOS devices, so I can't speak to the multitudes of things that could go wrong there. And because Apple has locked down the new devices as they have, I don't have any idea if the JRiver developers are putting any more effort into enhancing or improving that functionality. 

The software can be coerced into doing nearly anything, so that's a big plus.  I'm frequently amazed by some of the tricks people get it to do.  But it's complicated software, and many users often think they understand what's happening when actually they don't. That happens constantly.

I was trying to address your specific issue about itunes playlist order, which I inferred was itself a workaround for the earlier issue.  But now in your latest post it seems that you've sorted that out, so are you all set now?