Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[audioriver]

About the Configure auto-import options: are any of them also valid for manual import i.e. dragging files/folders into MC and selecting Import? From some quick tests, it seems these options do not apply for manual import.

Is there a way to similarly exclude file types etc. from manual import? I couldn't find it. If not possible, I'd like to add this as a MC 27 feature request. For example, if I drag a folder for import that contains jpg/cue etc. files they should not be imported, if they have been excluded in the options.

Thanks

[JimH]

You could select the files you want, rather than importing the parent folder.

[audioriver]

Ok, but this is a bit of a pain when importing two or more folders - even more so simultaneously.

[RoderickGI]

If the folder isn't in your Auto Import configuration, use the "Tools > Import > Import Single Folder" function. That will give you access to the rules you want.

If the new folder is covered by the scope of your Auto Import configuration, just run "Run Auto-Import Now".

I don't use drag and drop, or right-click "Media Center > Import" for the very reasons you have found. I think that process just imports everything MC can import.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Import#Drag_and_Drop_and_Shell_Integration

[audioriver]

Thanks for the useful overrides. I do use some of them.

I still believe a separate "configure manual import" section should be created (including the various sub-options like Analyze audio etc.) to make things more configurable and less confusing on what exactly happens during Import, whether Automatic, Manual, drag and drop etc. It took me a while to realize it was some .cue files messing up my manual imports.

Not a huge problem of course, just a meaningful improvement imo.

[RoderickGI]

I wouldn't object if that functionality existed. I might even use it.

But while you are asking for more functionality and settings in this area, a UX Designer is telling JRiver to remove the single Folder import altogether!

The balance between complexity and functionality is a difficult one.

[audioriver]

The balance between complexity and functionality is a difficult one.

Fully agree with this, however, in recent years, functionality has been blurred or even swapped all too easily (often intentionally) with feature removal (I don't mean in MC, which remains a powerful, dumbing-down-free program).

I did try to carefully read and understand those UX suggestions. They still sound like feature removal and "program knows what's best for the user"-type changes.

[audioriver]

...and to be honest, I did not remember about the "Import a single folder" option. It will solve most of my issues, since it already includes all options. I certainly hope it won't be removed. 

However, the drag and drop import problem confusion remains (same for right-click "Media Center > Import), since it is a function that exists, but is currently unconfigurable and does not obey any rules* as the Wiki eloquently describes!

* "does not obey any tagging rules" is the accurate Wiki quote, but I edited it for the sake of sensationalism.

[RoderickGI]

... but I edited it for the sake of sensationalism.

 

[JimH]

Fully agree with this, however, in recent years, functionality has been blurred or even swapped all too easily (often intentionally) with feature removal (I don't mean in MC, which remains a powerful, dumbing-down-free program).

I did try to carefully read and understand those UX suggestions. They still sound like feature removal and "program knows what's best for the user"-type changes.

I agree with this.

[jkauff]

I agree with this.

I assume you guys are referring to my UX suggestions. I don't remember advocating for the removal of ANY functionality for experienced users. I did mention an Add Folders dialog that would be easier for new users to understand. It included the ability to add folders and exclude them from auto-update.

[JimH]

I assume you guys are referring to my UX suggestions. I don't remember advocating for the removal of ANY functionality for experienced users. I did mention an Add Folders dialog that would be easier for new users to understand. It included the ability to add folders and exclude them from auto-update.

I wasn't referring to your advice, but you can see how changes can be difficult.

I do appreciate what you've tried to do.

[RoderickGI]

I wasn't referring to your advice

Well, I was, but with good reason.

I use the "Import a single folder" function fairly often, as per the original thread, as a once-off process. I don't want to add a once-off folder to the Auto-Import configuration for this, even if I can mark that folder as excluded from Auto-Import. I import the folder once, and never again. I don't want to have the folder name cluttering up the Auto-Import configuration. I would need to add it, import its contents, and then delete it from the Auto-Import configuration dialogue. No thanks, you would just be making work for me.

But as I said in that thread:

jkauff, I think we are on the same page. I have no doubt that the process of getting media files into MC the first time, for a first time user, could be more intuitive.

Maybe if you did a mockup which considered all those workflow issues and posted it in that thread I would understand how I could achieve the same once-off folder importation.

[jkauff]

I use the "Import a single folder" function fairly often, as per the original thread, as a once-off process. I don't want to add a once-off folder to the Auto-Import configuration for this, even if I can mark that folder as excluded from Auto-Import. I import the folder once, and never again. I don't want to have the folder name cluttering up the Auto-Import configuration. I would need to add it, import its contents, and then delete it from the Auto-Import configuration dialogue. No thanks, you would just be making work for me.

But as I said in that thread:
Maybe if you did a mockup which considered all those workflow issues and posted it in that thread I would understand how I could achieve the same once-off folder importation.

Of course you could still import a single folder, just as you do today. It might require an additional click, but it would still be there. The problem is the dialog that offers you three choices: Import a single folder, configure auto-import, run auto-import. This is bound to confuse new users, since the first option is unrelated to my task (I want to add most of my collection). Run auto-import is inappropriate because my library is empty. Plus, I'm not sure what auto-import entails, because there's no explanatory text. Of course, the dialog makes perfect sense to an experienced user.

My design goal is to make things clearer to new users, not to force other users to use training wheels.

I mentioned to JimH that I was willing to do a sketch, but he didn't give me an answer. I'm still willing to do it.

[audioriver]

I believe the confusion arises because Auto and Manual import are not fully or clearly separated. Well, they are for seasoned users and I disagree here that MC should adapt to accommodate "new users". Large part of the fun of MC is getting to know it.

Having said this, these seem the sources of current, mild confusion:

1. The aforementioned Media Import window, which contains BOTH Manual and Auto-Import functions. These could be fully separated/split, without adding extra clicks for manual-import users. It also contains "Configure Auto-Import" which is essentially an Options shortcut* and can lead to no Import at all, so Tools/Import... is not entirely accurate.

Two direct menu commands "Tools/Run Auto-Import now" and "Tools/Run Manual-Import now" would look clearer. "Configure Auto-Import" could be removed, since it's already available in the Options. No need for Options shortcuts in the Menu. You could create a toolbar button, for those that use it often. A button for "Run Manual-Import now" would also make sense (full parity with Auto-Import).

2. The partial configurability of Manual Import:

a) Single-folder import: fully configurable
b) File Explorer Import: not configurable
c) Drag and Drop Import: not configurable

Suggested solution: two separate option sections, one for Auto and another for Manual Import. The Manual Import section should either encompass a/b/c sub-sections above into one, or allow separate settings for a, b, c (power-user oriented, not confusing at all)

* it is not even a shortcut, since you need the same amount of clicks to access "Configure auto-import" from the Options.

[RoderickGI]

Just a little bit of information. No disagreement. In fact, I agree with the Auto/Manual separation, if it could be laid out well.

It also contains "Configure Auto-Import" which is essentially an Options shortcut* and can lead to no Import at all, so Tools/Import... is not entirely accurate.

The "Configure Auto-Import" accessed via the "Tools > Import" menu runs Auto-Import if a user clicks "Finish". It just doesn't run Auto-Import if the user clicks "Cancel". But then Cancel also cancels any and all changes to the configuration, so there is in fact no way to configure Auto-Import without running it, when accessing it via the top menu.

The "Configure Auto-Import" accessed via "Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import > Configure auto-import" doesn't run Auto-Import when a user clicks "Finish". It just saves the Auto-Import configuration changes.

So the two versions of "Configure Auto-Import" are actually different functions.

Two direct menu commands "Tools/Run Auto-Import now" and "Tools/Run Manual-Import now" would look clearer.

The Toolbar at the top and bottom of Standard View can be customised, and there is a button that can be added for "Run Auto-Import Now". I use that often.

There is no button for "Import a single folder", but there is for "Import", which opens the "Tools > Import" dialogue, so a user can quickly get to the functions.

"Configure Auto-Import" could be removed, since it's already available in the Options. No need for Options shortcuts in the Menu.

JRiver has long held the practice of providing multiple ways to get to the one function. Jim has discussed it many times and has had no desire to remove access methods where there are apparently multiple ways to access the same function.

Also, as above, there are two versions of "Configure Auto-Import" in MC. They work differently.

You could create a toolbar button, for those that use it often. A button for "Run Manual-Import now" would also make sense (full parity with Auto-Import).

The only concept of "Run Manual-Import now" that makes sense with MC is to import a single folder. A user doesn't "Run Manual-Import now" when they are using the Shell Integration right-click method, or Drag & Drop.

I agree though that having a "Run Manual-Import now" button that could be added to the Toolbar would save one click. But at the same time would use up a considerable amount of Toolbar real estate. I can get to it by clicking the "Import" button then "Import a single folder" option.

2. The partial configurability of Manual Import:

a) Single-folder import: fully configurable
b) File Explorer Import: not configurable
c) Drag and Drop Import: not configurable

Suggested solution: two separate option sections, one for Auto and another for Manual Import. The Manual Import section should either encompass a/b/c sub-sections above into one, or allow separate settings for a, b, c (power-user oriented, not confusing at all)

I think configurability could be added for b) and c), but it could add to frustration. Imagine configuring Drag & Drop to only import Video files, for example. Then some time later a user tries to import Audio files using Drag & Drop, and MC just won't import the files! Forum posts everywhere, after much frustration, and that sort of issue takes some time to resolve as often the cause seems unrelated to the user and they don't share their configuration until it is asked for several times.

Importing via Shell Integration would have the same issue. A file is selected, right-clicked on, and import is selected. Nothing happens. The user searches the Library in vain for the file. Frustration.


Anyway, this discussion started from the point of view of a new user. I think a solution for that situation, via a wizard that guided the new user through the process of initial loading of the Library, and at the same time introduced the terminology, functions, and settings, would go a long way to improving the process. Propose how that would be done, and JRiver might consider it. Jim is unlikely to ask for a sketch though jkauff, though sometimes he does ask for specific input like that.

Waving at Jim.