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[Z0001]

Hi

I'm a bit new to the use case for a server-client set up.

The idea of having a server MC machine in a non media room appeals if that machine can be the location of the noisy parts, and if it needs to be of a larger form factor.

In the viewing room, I want to be able to watch lower resolution content (DVD of pre digital content) on a 4k screen. Does this room need a high power graphics card, or can some of that upscaling be done by the server, requiring a less powerful graphics card in the viewing room, and consequently a smaller form factor case?

Appreciate any ideas!

Z

[wer]

It's the opposite.  The machine that's hooked to the display does the rendering and needs the horsepower.  The server just serves files and the database, and can be more modest.

Instead of incurring the complexity of trying to have a working client server setup (and there are lots of complications) you will have an easier time just putting together a quiet machine to live in the media room.

It is not too difficult to build or buy one that is silent or nearly silent, certainly quiet enough not to be heard over the audio coming out of your sound system.

For me, I find it's best to let the display handle the 4k upscaling from HD.  My LG does a good job at this, and it allows the playback machine to use a modest graphics card, even using MadVR.  If you insist on upscaling to 4k on the graphics card itself, so that you have more control, a higher-end card will be needed.  The forums here have good recommendations on cards suitable for 4k scaling with MadVR.

[tij]

Server might need good CPU if you do transcoding (converting video to different resolution/bit rate ... eg to serve handheld devices) ... not sure if MC can use GPU for transcoding

EDIT: MC can use GPU for transcoding

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=120104.0

So it all depends on your need.

If you are not planning to serve video to handhelds ... cheap Server is enough without GPU

If quality of video is your highest priority and you want to use MadVR ... client machine will need powerful GPU, which can be noisy. If you do not plan to use optical drive, can put client machine in separate room and just run HDMI to media room (use JRemote or similar on your handheld to control Client remotely)

As I said - all depends on what you want to do ... so define what you want first - only then start designing your system

[Manfred]

Hi,

I have in principle exactly that what are you asking for.

But you must ask your self a few questions before you invest!

- Key question you must ask yourself, how much GB/TB of media data you will have (I have ~24 TB of raw media data)?  That determines also how you will handle backup and Disaster Recovery.
- Do you want your server/HTPC be always on and stream content to multiple devices, multiple rooms?
- Is it acceptable for you to have a spinning disk in your living room (for me it was not, I had an HTPC in the beginning of my digital journey and 3TB WD Red or WD My passport was too noisy for me)? Now you have 4 TB SSD available for a reasonable price. So even to have 2 - 3 ssd's is to a certain point acceptable from a price point of view. With that in mind you can build an "always on" server in the living room. You need than also an graphics card with the fan's off feature.

If you decide for client server, the media renderer has the graphics card build into.

My arguments for my decision were (I had written them down on a slide - SWOT analysis):

Strengths
- Use of 10 TB spinning disks (There are loud for me)
- Functions & media files on same server only connected through Ethernet (IP) –  like streaming services over the network, allows audio analysis of > 10 000 audio files in < 8h instead of the NAS/HTPC combination, where each file must be transported over the network > 24h.
- Placement of Server in a separate room
- Has the possibility to be put in the Cloud
- roon server and MC server on one physical server ( I can play audio via DLNA to my Devialet or to my DLNA device in the bedroom, the server is always on!)
- Always on with automated backup of libraries and media files
- Possibility to support the design pattern “no local storage on clients”
- Central meta data management
- Central media files management
- Server only for media associated applications is optimized for stability, reliability, low # of changes
- Supports the design pattern “Ethernet only” like a cloud service
- Optimized for I/O compared  to a media renderer optimized for audiophile audio playback
- Optimized for low TDP compared to a media renderer with a video card
- Central DLNA server connected to multiple devices

Weakness

- adds complexity
- adds cost (server grade motherboard, management interface IPI, ECC RAM)
- Requires for video playback using madVR a video renderer connected through HDMI to TV

[Z0001]

Thanks. That's all really helpful.

Important for me will  be a client with no local storage.

A quiet client for audio.

A server on which all media management is done.

Don't need transcoding for handhelds at this stage.

So I feel like I am veering towards something like a MSI Trident as a client, and a tower with lots of HDD space as a server, repurposing my HTPC parts. Is this sounding sensible? Would a trident be ok?

Cheers
Z

[JimH]

The IdPi would be fine as a client for music.
https://jriver.com/Id/

[Manfred]

Would a trident be ok?

for a media renderer trident would be more than enough. I have an i3 inside my media renderer and a GTX 960. CPU utilization is for audio almost < 5% and for video (4K up scaling using Jinc, Lanczos) < 20%. My GTX 960 is capable for all type of video but not for the new NGU algorithms, but that you need only if you have a lot of SD video content.  For audio only an JRiver ID is more than enough as a media renderer.

[Z0001]

When considering the GPU, is there a preference for AMD or Nvidia when using madvr for upscaling?

For music listening when sending music audio signal to my receiver (Yamaha RX A3080) is there a benefit in sending it over HDMI or separately on a digital cable (ie using HDMI for the video and an audio cable for audio)?

Thanks
Z

[Z0001]

Follow up

AMD are sounding interesting, could a APU from AMD be an answer? For a powerful enough and quiet system? External PSU, less noise?

Or daft idea if i want to upscale using madvr!

Z

[wer]

I'm definitely not an expert with the newer nVidia cards, but I'll chime in with a couple of tidbits for you, Z0001.

Historically in my experience AMD provided better color, better support for the needed HTPC refresh rates, and better control over deinterlacing.  I have AMD in my HTPC and everything works very well with MadVR.  I would say AMD used to be preferable.

However, AMD's drivers have been getting worse.  The removed deinterlacing controls.  And they have issues with HDR.

Generally now people seem to think the higher horsepower NVidia cards run cooler and quieter than AMD, and that this gives an advantage if you want to use the expensive scaling algorithms at 4k.

As soon as you bring 4k into, things get dicier.  I see very little difference between the cheap vs expensive scaling algorithms on a moving image at 4k.  Also, a lot of people think they need 4k but can't actually see it because they sit too far from the set for the human eye to resolve it.  So the 4k/horsepower issue might not really matter for you. But if you have a projector with a giant screen, or a big TV and sit very (too) close, 4k matters.

Lastly it's my understanding that currently only Nvidia cards are able to properly switch between HDR and SDR modes with MadVR, and for this reason Madshi only recommends Nvidia if you're doing HDR.  I don't know if this has changed lately. 

If you only have SDR content (quite possible) that won't matter to you.  If you have a mix, it will.  Personally I don't care.  The HDR stuff I've seen made much much less of a difference to me than moving to an OLED television.  That was a massive improvement.  To me HDR is minor.  I mention this because HDR/SDR switching might be the killer advantage of nVidia, but you need to let your own eyes tell you if it matters.

I'm interested in what others with more recent experience with new Nvidia cards think, but a lot of people have only used one brand and so can't really compare.  I used to run Nvidia but have been AMD for a few years now.

Good luck...

-Will

[tij]

Actually, switching to HDR mode is not needed IF you use MadVR for tone mapping … and its a very good tone map (better than LG OLED E6 that introduces hue/color shifts)

IF source is mastered properly … BT2020 does provider richer color than BT709 … I don't really care for added peak brightness of HDR, but wider color is nice

[RoderickGI]

Plus AMD still supports frame packed 3D, don't they?

[Z0001]

Hi again, and thanks everyone

I am now quite keen on building a server and having it in another room as I have some 14TB drives that are noisy.

What would be a suitable hardware spec for this? No plans to transcode.

What software other than W10 and MC would I need?

Can I use my existing MC licence on both machines?

What's recommended for drive pooling?

Thanks!
Z

[JimH]

You can use one license on all your machines, within reason.

It doesn't take much power to run MC as a server.   You could start with any old machine you have around, and see how well it does.

It would be good to try to build a low power server.

[zybex]

If no transcoding is needed then this may be what you need - no extra graphics card required:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,126023.msg873679.html#msg873679

You still need some other machine to do movie/audio ripping though. Or an external USB drive.