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[Manfred]

Is it possible with MC 27 to use the upscaler of a Smart TV instead of using RO, ROHQ and send the video as is from MC to the TV?

[wer]

Of course.

If you make the video display modes match the content resolution, there will be no need to scale, and the PC will then not scale.

Go to Options->Video->Display Settings

Make sure that Automatic change mode is Custom  (you can try just ON, but you have better control with CUSTOM)
Now set the appropriate resolution & refresh rates for DVD and bluray:
NTSC: 720x480 at 29.97 or 59.94
FILM: 1920x1080 at 23 & 24
if you have PAL content: PAL: 720x576 at 25 or 50
DEFAULT: desktop resolution

These resolutions and refresh rates MUST be defined as valid modes on your video card. You may have to setup custom video modes and timings in you graphics driver control panel. Google it if you don't know how.

Also disable the device/display modes/switch to matching display mode option in madvr, if you had that enabled.

Now MC will switch to the native resolution of DVD and Bluray content you play. The computer will not do any scaling, which will force the TV to scale to fit its panel. (It's also possible to have MadVR do the display mode switching, but using MC is more reliable.)

[timwtheov]

Wer,

Thank you for this! You helped me solve a problem I've been having with my TV/AVR display for a couple of years now, where in either Standard or Theater View, MC would get so laggy that I couldn't do anything till I restarted MC; and even then, MC would get laggy again within a few minutes. In January, RD James had reported his doing something similar here

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,123589.msg856012.html#msg856012

but his solution was a VST plugin update. I have no VST plugins, so this obviously wasn't an issue for me. I have another display hooked up to the same HTPC, and this laggy behavior wouldn't happen at all with it; so I've tweaked settings on the AVR, played around with MadVR and the TV itself and on and on and . . . nothing. Couldn't tag my music while listening to my Marantz and 5.2--no fun.

Anyway, after reading your solution here, I realized there was a conflict in my MadVR and MC settings, where I was having BOTH of them change the frame rate ("Custom" or "Automatic: On" in MC AND "Switch to Matching Display Mode" in MadVR). Turned off the latter and presto: no lagging! It seems clear now that I realize it, but man: I've pulled my hair out again and again with this one.

So again, even though I wasn't the OP: thank you!!!

[wer]

Looking at your link, I can see I was involved in that thread and the one that it referenced as well; having to do with my workaround for the theater-view sluggishness problem. I wouldn't have thought to connect that with your slowness in standard view.

Glad you got some good out of it Tim.  No extra charge.   

[tij]

If you have decent GPU, I highly doubt that TV can do better scaling and HDR tone mapping than MadVR (ROHQ).

But anyway, in case of outputting to TV via HDMI  - MC will do at least chroma upscaling (in nutshell ... color information comes at half resolution ... scaling color channel to full resolution is chroma upscaling)

If you want your video to truly be send to TV untouched (without chroma upscaling ... aka let TV do chroma upscaling too), you need:

1. Your TV connected to network (LAN connection ... not WiFi ... as WiFi is too slow and unreliable)

2. Choose your TV as DLNA renderer when playing movie

In this case TV will access your MKV files directly through network ... getting video/audio truly untouched.

This is unnecessary complicated ... but if you want your TV to get truly untouched source .. is the only way

[RoderickGI]

Is it possible with MC 27 to use the upscaler of a Smart TV instead of using RO, ROHQ and send the video as is from MC to the TV?

Why?

If you can answer that you may get more appropriate responses.

[Manfred]

Why?

Simplification - currently I am happy with my GTX 960 but its getting aged and louder and the desktop iGPU's are not as strong as NVIDIA GPU and if I compare Netflix PQ to ROHQ - I could live with Netflix PQ (LG OLED) .

Choose your TV as DLNA renderer when playing movie

The LG DLNA App for video is from a usability PoV and also from PQ and audio quality (only 16bit) so bad!!! Netflix PQ is so much better than the LG DLNA App - but I don't know why.

[tij]

The LG DLNA App for video is from a usability PoV and also from PQ and audio quality (only 16bit) so bad!!! Netflix PQ is so much better than the LG DLNA App - but I don't know why.

I did not say to use LG DLNA App.

In MC just choose your TV as a render (see attached screenshot ... top left corner ... you can see my TV appears as a renderer) ... once it is chosen, anything you play will be directed to your TV - so you can use Theatre View to browse your library (this can be done from JRemote too)

Once played ... TV will launch its player and play the file directly, bypassing your PC completely ... you will have to use TV remote to control playback ... once finished, TV will switch back to your PC input - aka back to MC view

Its possible to set up your TV as a zone ... and make a rule that only video are played by TV and audio only played by your PC.

Like I said before ... this is not so convenient solution, but only way to send video to TV untouched

If you dont mind MC doing chroma upscaling ... then wer method is more elegant

PS. as for comparing Netflix to your TV player ... if your video files are remux from original BluRay or UHD ... there is no way Netflix will look or sound better

EDIT: and MadVR scaling and HDR tone mapping completely blow what my LG OLED E6 can do

[Manfred]

Now set the appropriate resolution & refresh rates for DVD and bluray:
NTSC: 720x480 at 29.97 or 59.94
FILM: 1920x1080 at 23 & 24
if you have PAL content: PAL: 720x576 at 25 or 50

But that does not fit for 29i bluray (I have a lot of them as mkv)?

[wer]

Sure it does.  If you need multiple video configurations (like playing 29i content at two different resolutions) simply create multiple zones, and route the files to play through the appropriate zone with ZoneSwitch. Each Zone can have a different set of video settings.

[RoderickGI]

It sounds like webOS has built in DLNA Renderer that is active by default.

I did not say to use LG DLNA App. ... you will have to use TV remote to control playback ...

But if you have to use the TV Remote, the TV is running an App of some sort, unless the player is also built into the OS.

Once played ... TV will launch its player and play the file directly, bypassing your PC completely

But it sounds like the Player is an App on webOS.


My Sony works the same way. I appears to have some control layer outside the Video and Music App, which presents itself to the world as a DLNA Renderer. But once playback is started, the TV selects either the Video or Music App to play it, and launches that App. Just like BubbleUPnP which can use an external Player for actual playback. Neither Sony App is particularly good, and neither use the full media playback capabilities of the TV. The DLNA playback capabilities are a subset of the full direct play via HDMI capabilities. That seems to be consistent across all DLNA devices.

So, directing play from MC to the TV via the network and a Zone in MC is using the DLNA App on the LG TV, just like my Sony I believe. Even if it is a layer outside the Player App. That layer restricts payback capabilities, as it presents to the DLNA Server what is it capable of, and that is less that what the TV is capable of using playback via HDMI. The DRMA shows what the DLNA Renderer says it can play, for comparison.


Manfred, Wer's advice is good. Or it may be time to upgrade that video card. More modern cards have better capabilities in addition to more processing power. I am running a GTX 1060 6GB on my HTPC, and I consider that the minimum requirement for MC on a HTPC these days.

[wer]

Or it may be time to upgrade that video card.

Maybe. But I wonder if this is less an issue of the video card being anemic and needing to be replaced, and more about choosing more reasonable scaling options in MadVR.  Unless you're looking at animation, the quality differences between some of the more efficient algorithms, like Lanczos, and the slower ones like Jinc and NGU are extremely minimal, if they're even perceptible at all with moving content.

[RoderickGI]

I agree, the old card can do the video if driven correctly. My minimum recommendation is more about standards compatibility than brute power, though not entirely.

On my ten year old Workstation I am still running an AMD HD5870 video card, and while it can't play modern games, it does fine with all video I throw at it. But I'm not playing lots of high definition video here, and most is transcoded for this PC. But on my HTPC things are more demanding.

[Manfred]

I will try out wer suggestions. 

[Manfred]

It was a short trip. You convinced me - ROHQ (madVR) is the way to go. After ~7.5 years with MC and madVR, I wanted to challenge it - but it was a short time challenge - it's incredibly good!!!

But I will buy a new graphics card.

Thank you very much for your comments and recommendations!

[wer]

I find it a little concerning that you think we've convinced you that you need a new graphics card, when there has been zero discussion with you about what settings you're actually using on your current card.

Rod's comment was just that an upgrade MAY be appropriate. But we don't know what you're trying to do.  For all we know, you might be using settings that give poor quality, or you might trying to use settings that are ridiculously too advanced for your card.

Getting the settings right for a particular card not only optimizes picture quality, it optimizes spending as well.

If you want to provide a screenshot of the MadVR settings and other video settings you're using, we could help.

If you just want to replace your card because it's old and loud, that's up to you. But it seems like you're jumping to a conclusion here based on things we haven't said.

Good luck...

[Manfred]

I have no problems with my madVR settings. I use it all the time.

I only wanted to know if I could use the TV for upscaling, but following your recommendation I tested a few DVD rips at720x756 and madVR was much better than the TV.

I don't know why but the card is much louder now and it's too slow to use even the ROHQ "best quality" mode.

[wer]

The card may be louder because it is dusty.

When dust coats the heatsink, it acts as an insulator, and air movement is less effective at cooling.  The fan runs faster to compensate, creating more noise.  You might try cleaning the card.

Some cards also control fan parameters through driver settings, so you might be able to make adjustments there.

Finally, if you're asking the card to do more work, it will run hotter, necessitating more aggressive cooling. Maybe your madvr settings, and thus workload, have changed.

I would not recommend the MadVR best quality preset.  You can get excellent results from madvr using custom settings that are much less costly than the best quality preset, making them usable on older cards, and running cooler (and therefore quieter) on newer cards.

Good luck with whatever you do.