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[curiousMonkey]

I am using MC 26 with a 1920x1080 Windows desktop. I set the refresh rate to 59Hz so that transitioning to a DVD file would be faster than a film. I am not sure any of this is relevant to my issue but I want to provide as much information as I can.

This is my second problem transition from a Sony VPL-VW285 to a JVC NX7 projector. Everything was working fine but on two separate occasions I noticed that the movie image did not reach the edge of the screen. This creates a slight window box effect leaving a thin black border on the left and right side of the active image, which is also letterboxed. The first time, something must have changed because the problem disappeared, but it reappeared this evening.

I don't see the problem playing back a 4K bluray disc so there must be some video setting in JRiver I need to tweak.

I looked through the Video settings but I don't see anything obvious aside from backing down to Red October Standard from Red October HQ. Since the problem disappeared in the past without making this change, I thnk the problem lies elsewhere. As far as I can recall, before the problem reappeared I had not changed any JRiver settings.

Can anyone think of a video setting that would introduce this behavior? I played around with various desktop resolutions (4096x2160, 3840x2160) and refresh rates but the problem remains.

[curiousMonkey]

I turned my projector back on and ran a few experiments.
Changing Red October from HQ to Standard had no effect.

If the desktop display frame rate is 60Hz and autoChange is OFF in JRiver, the full image is displayed.
If I turn on autoChange, the image is window boxed.

However I also see the same window boxing when I set the desktop to 24p or 23p and autoChange is OFF.
I will attach some screen shots of the display data I captured on the screen.

[tij]

I don't see boxing on any of posted images. When you took those images, which one of them showed be boxing on the screen? First one?

When you set your desktop to 23 or 24 ... does desktop itself is boxed (not movie but actual Windows desktop)?

EDIT: isn't NX7 a 4K projector? you let NX7 do scaling?

[curiousMonkey]

I realize it is difficult to see the window boxing. My real intent with the photos was to show the video settings in various modes.

The first picture shows the window boxing. If you look at the screen under the text you can see a black region. That region is not present in the second photo where the image goes under the text completely to the edge of the screen.

I only see window boxing when I launch the movie in MC. The projector is 4k so everything will be upscaled.

[zybex]

I honestly can't see what you're talking about. Do you see black borders on the left/right? I don't. The 3 images have the same resolution, they all strech to the left/right with no black border, and they all have the same height of vertical black bars due to aspect ratio.

The first and third images have 1 extra line of text ("repeated frames") so the text ends further down than on the second image. It's hard to tell because the frame is almost black on the left, but there are a few non-black pixels near the left edge, and on the right the image stretches to the border just fine.

What exactly is wrong?

If the screenshots don't show a black border, but you do see it on the projected image, then it's likely some setting on the projector itself.

[RoderickGI]

I can see a very slight edge effect at the bottom right of the first image. It isn't a border though.  It is an edge effect, and it looks like the image is very slightly rotated clockwise to produce it. That would be a projector issue.

Do yourself a favour and use the MC "Options > Video > Display Settings" in Custom mode to set the correct outputs to have MC and MadVR do the upscaling to 4K when required, with the correct framerate matching the source. Unless the projector is better at upscaling than MadVR. I used to let my TV do the upscaling but switched to using Custom Display Settings in MC. The difference is small, but I have more control for oddball video, and matching framerate produced an improvement.


PS: You might be able to hide (not fix, hide) the effect using "Crop Edges" in MC. Just start very small and work up until the edge effect doesn't show. That may produce undesirable side effects though, like an increased load on the PC.

[curiousMonkey]

Here are some photos that show the problem much more clearly.
I am using Red October Standard mode with a frame rate of 59Hz on the desktop.

One photo is with change rate turned ON. There is clearly a blank region on the screen before the black border.
The other photo is with change rate turned OFF. Here the image goes all the way up to the black border.

[wer]

Ok hold on a second...

I'm going to chime in with something obvious, but no one else has mentioned it...

In both images that show the MadVR stats (which you say one has the boxed problem and the other doesn't) MadVR is outputting at the same resolution. The "draw" line in the OSD proves this. Refresh rate is different but resolution is the same.

So, unless you have been monkeying with the display settings, timings, or anamorphic settings in MadVR, I think the problem is not with MadVR.

You may have different timings or scaling settings set in your video driver configuration for the video modes associated with those "boxed" refreshed rates. Check there.  You say 60Hz displays fine, but 59Hz is boxed.  Check the settings in your video driver for overscan/zoom/etc for those refresh rates.

Secondly, it could be the projector doing this without involvement from anyone else.  You might need to check there.

You can test these theories by closing MC completely, and just changing your Windows desktop resolution and refresh rate to match the refresh rates and resolutions you're seeing in MadVR.  If the problem is with the video driver config or the projector, you will still see "boxing" even when MC is not running.


If there is never any boxing with MC closed, then show us screenshots of your MC Video Display Settings, and screenshots of your MadVR config for "display mode" under "devices". There will be little use in more talk without seeing those screenshots...

If the problem only manifests when using MadVR, then your MadVR display settings will need to be unborked.

[curiousMonkey]

I did the experiments without MC loaded and the window boxing still occurs.
Whenever the frame is lower the 50Hz, I see it with the desktop.
I tested my bluray player earlier and it definitely works fine at 24Hz with 4K discs.

The issue must be either the integrated video or its interaction with the projector.
So I have to stick to 59 or 60Hz unless I update the video adapter.

[tij]

I did the experiments without MC loaded and the window boxing still occurs.
Whenever the frame is lower the 50Hz, I see it with the desktop.
I tested my bluray player earlier and it definitely works fine at 24Hz with 4K discs.

The issue must be either the integrated video or its interaction with the projector.
So I have to stick to 59 or 60Hz unless I update the video adapter.

log your testings ... to see where problem occurs

somethubg like ...
1080p23 - boxing
1080p24
1080p25
1080p29
1080p30
1080p59 - no boxing
1080p60
similar for 2160p

since your desktop shows the problem ... its not MC related

like wer mentioned it can be either setting in GPU driver for zoom or zoom setting in your JVC that you accidently set

it can be called different than zoom ... overscan or underscan settings?

EDIT: if I have to guess ... I would bet it’s JVC settings as it’s much harder to screw with this in GPU drivers (especially such that zoom is different for different refresh rate)

My wild guess (I could be wrong) ... projector was not properly set up ... then you compensated that with zoom for your dvd content which somehow don’t apply to 23/24 content (video/film presets?)

[wer]

I did the experiments without MC loaded and the window boxing still occurs.
Whenever the frame is lower the 50Hz, I see it with the desktop.
I tested my bluray player earlier and it definitely works fine at 24Hz with 4K discs.

The issue must be either the integrated video or its interaction with the projector.
So I have to stick to 59 or 60Hz unless I update the video adapter.

So the problem is with the settings in your graphics driver, or your projector, not with MC/MadVR.

Replacing your graphics card should not be necessary.

Your projector is capable of projecting an alignment pattern, and has zoom and aspect ratio controls.  I suggest you try using those. 

Please read pages 24-26 and 56 of your manual.  There is a diagram on page 27 of your manual that implies what you are seeing is normal behavior for the projector when fed a 1920x1080 image.  You should call JVC tech support and get a better understanding of the projector.

If the boxing behavior of the projector with 1920x1080 material cannot be fixed, you could try outputting from the PC at 4k resolution.  If your current graphics card can't do this, that would be the only reason you'd have to replace your card.  Of course, then there would also be the concern of is your PC fast enough to do the upscaling.

Start by calling JVC.  I'm glad I was able to get you on the right track at least... Good luck.

[tij]

Respect to wer for finding time to read manual

curiousMonkey screen looks like cinemascope... so definitely he tweak some preset for zoom on the projector

[JimH]

Thanks, wer.

[curiousMonkey]

I started collecting more data after sending an email to JVC about this issue. I am using a Panamorph DCR lens on the projector in anamorphic C mode but aspect is set to Auto.

I noticed that when I set the video resolution for the PC to 4096x2160 everything worked as expected, there was no window boxing. Unfortunately that video mode does not support 50Hz or higher so watching NTSC broadcasts might be difficult.

Next I ran the Intel driver update and found a newer version of the Intel video driver for the 4400 GPU on my system. With that driver installed I am not seeing window boxing at frame rates below 50Hz. Unfortunately the window boxing does appear on my projector again.

I checked the info screen on the projector and there is definitely something happening there.
1) With the display driver at 1920x1080 and 60Hz, the projector reports the input signal is 1080 60Hz.
2) With the display driver at 1920x1080 and 24Hz, the projector reports the input signal is 2160 24Hz.

So I am back to running at 1920x1080/60 while I wait to talk to JVC.

[wer]

I noticed that when I set the video resolution for the PC to 4096x2160 everything worked as expected, there was no window boxing. Unfortunately that video mode does not support 50Hz or higher so watching NTSC broadcasts might be difficult.

Both that graphics chipset and that projector support 4k60p. (both 4096x2160 and 3840x2160)

If you can't select 60Hz at all in the graphics driver, make sure you are using a high-speed HDMI 2.0 cable. You might have to get a better cable. Intel has a tech note on this:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000023945/graphics.html

A note on resolution:
The correct resolution for outputting your content is 3840x2160.  This is what the video industry usually means by "4k". It is the resolution of UHD discs, and exactly double the horizontal resolution of HD, Bluray, and HDTV.  3840x2160 will allow you to display your content without distortion. This is the 16:9 aspect ratio, and any TV that says it's "4k" is 3840x2160.

However, your projector is using true 4k chips (also called DCI-4K or Cinema 4k), at 4096x2160.  Unless the projector scales to distort (widen) the input image (or zoom it, cropping off the top and bottom edges), there will always be 128 pixels on either side of the display that have no image, because the chip is 256 pixels wider than the video image you are sending it. Your content is 16:9, and your projector is a bit wider than 17:9.

So that boxing may be unavoidable on that projector when displaying HD or UHD content.  If you don't like that, or don't want to mask off that area of your screen, then you should have bought a different projector with a native resolution of 3840x2160. Or a narrower screen.

Good luck...

[curiousMonkey]

Here is a quick update on the status of my issue.

I was unable to get 4K resolution at 60Hz using the embedded GPU, even when I used the HDMI cable from my blu-ray player which does playback at 60Hz. So I decided to update my video card to one based on the NVidia 1030. The new card DOES support 60Hz playback and the window boxing is not present when I select a 1920x1080 60Hz configuration for the desktop and allow MC27 to switch to 24 Hz for movie files. However when I select a 4096x2160 60Hz configuration for the desktop, the window boxing reappears for movie files. It is easier to navigate MC27 when the desktop resolution is 4K so it would be nice if that mode did not introduce window boxing.

I still need to work with JVC to understand why the blu-ray player can send a 2160P signal (presumably 3980x2160) that fills my screen completely and the 2160P signal from the PC introduces window boxing.

[wer]

You might want to examine some test patterns.

It is not possible to fit both 17:9 and 16:9 in the same area without distortion.

If they fit in the same area, one must be distorted or one must be cropped.

Perhaps you don't notice or object to such distortion or cropping.