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[haggis999]

Like many others during the coronavirus pandemic, I am trying to replace forbidden face-to-face meetings of a music society with online meetings using Zoom. However, I am hitting an unexpected problem when I try to share music playback with the other participants.

According to Zoom guidance documents, they don't care what media player I use on the host computer. Audio files played by Foobar2000 work fine over Zoom (using the 'Share computer sound' option in Zoom). So also does the sound track of a video played using VideoLAN VLC Media Player, but when I try to play the same audio and video files using JRiver MC the other participants hear nothing at all.

Even worse, after any failed attempt to share JRiver MC playback over Zoom, Foobar2000 and VLC both also fail to work. I have to restart Zoom on the host PC before Foobar2000 and VLC will work again over Zoom. These problems appear with both MC 26 and MC 27.

Is there some setting in MC that might make it compatible with Zoom?

[wer]

It could be your audio settings.

I have never tried what you're saying, and I neither know nor care about Zoom, but I'll make a suggestion to fix it.

Before running Zoom, change your MC audio output to use DirectSound, and ensure exclusive mode is off.  This will make it maximally compatible, and fidelity is obviously not an issue during a Zoom call. Revert your settings after your Zoom meeting.

[haggis999]

It could be your audio settings.

I have never tried what you're saying, and I neither know nor care about Zoom, but I'll make a suggestion to fix it.

Before running Zoom, change your MC audio output to use DirectSound, and ensure exclusive mode is off.  This will make it maximally compatible, and fidelity is obviously not an issue during a Zoom call. Revert your settings after your Zoom meeting.

I normally use 'High Definition Audio Device [WASAPI]' with the device setting 'Open device for exclusive access'. Yesterday, I had already tried switching to 'Default Audio Device [Direct Sound]', which doesn't appear to offer any option to turn exclusive access on or off, but it made no difference with Zoom. However, that test was done while I was still in the mode of Zoom's audio being screwed up by a failed attempt to use MC. When I tried Direct Sound again after restarting Zoom, I was now able to share MC audio over Zoom.

I then reverted to the High Definition Audio Device, but with exclusive access turned off. This also worked with Zoom, so I think you have pinpointed the source of my problem. Your help is much appreciated.   

[JimH]

Try using the stop button instead of the pause button.

[wer]

Glad you're sorted, Haggis.

[haggis999]

Try using the stop button instead of the pause button.

Hi Jim,
I'm a bit puzzled by your comment, as it doesn't seem relevant to the matter under discussion. My problem occurred while MC was playing, not when either stopping or pausing. Have you accidentally posted in the wrong thread?

[dtc]

Hi Jim,
I'm a bit puzzled by your comment, as it doesn't seem relevant to the matter under discussion. My problem occurred while MC was playing, not when either stopping or pausing. Have you accidentally posted in the wrong thread?

When you hit pause, MC maintains exclusive access to the device if it is set to exclusive mode, which is the usual case with WASAPI.  That could prevent Zoom from getting access to the device. When you hit stop, MC releases the exclusive access. Something to experiment with.

[haggis999]

When you hit pause, MC maintains exclusive access to the device if it is set to exclusive mode, which is the usual case with WASAPI.  That could prevent Zoom from getting access to the device. When you hit stop, MC releases the exclusive access. Something to experiment with.

Thanks for that clarification, though it doesn't appear to offer an alternative method for sharing MC playback over Zoom. Rather obviously, no media will be playing when MC is stopped. Unless I am missing something here, permanently turning off exclusive access in Options appears to be the only solution.

[dtc]

Thanks for that clarification, though it doesn't appear to offer an alternative method for sharing MC playback over Zoom. Rather obviously, no media will be playing when MC is stopped. Unless I am missing something here, permanently turning off exclusive access in Options appears to be the only solution.

As far as Exclusive Access is concern, if MC is "stopped" by hitting Pause that is different than if it is "stopped" by hitting Stop.  When MC is paused, MC holds one to exclusive access to the device, preventing another program from using the output. When MC is stopped, another application (Zoom) can access the device. Hitting Stop may free up Zoom to access the device. If  both Pause and Stop give you problems, then that is not a solution. Just something to try given that turning of Exclusive mode seems  to help the situation.

[glynor]

Thanks for that clarification, though it doesn't appear to offer an alternative method for sharing MC playback over Zoom. Rather obviously, no media will be playing when MC is stopped. Unless I am missing something here, permanently turning off exclusive access in Options appears to be the only solution.

It isn't Exclusive Access that is blocking it (though that would probably do it too), it is that Zoom can't capture from WASAPI sources. That's common. Most capture-and-retransmit applications like that are DirectShow applications, so if MC is using WASAPI, it is effectively invisible to it.

In fact, that is largely the point of WASAPI. It bypasses the Windows Mixer and sends commands "directly" (through the API) to your sound card. To intercept that, the capture application would need to have driver-level access to the system. Zoom, definitely, does not.

On my Macs, I use MC to play music to Zoom and Webex meetings nearly every week. I use Rogue Amoeba's Loopback to do it (so I can merge multiple applications and my mics), and it works splendidly.

[glynor]

I forgot to finish. There is a simple solution: Make a new Zone in MC, and set that new Zone to use DirectShow Audio Output mode (you can also tweak your volume and other DSP settings, a bunch of heavy compression makes the music play much better over Zoom, FYI). Then, for normal everyday listening, you can use your normal Zone in MC, but for Zoom Meeting usage, you just quickly switch it over to your Zoom Zone, and play away.

[dtc]

It isn't Exclusive Access that is blocking it (though that would probably do it too), it is that Zoom can't capture from WASAPI sources. That's common. Most capture-and-retransmit applications like that are DirectShow applications, so if MC is using WASAPI, it is effectively invisible to it.

In fact, that is largely the point of WASAPI. It bypasses the Windows Mixer and sends commands "directly" (through the API) to your sound card. To intercept that, the capture application would need to have driver-level access to the system. Zoom, definitely, does not.

On my Macs, I use MC to play music to Zoom and Webex meetings nearly every week. I use Rogue Amoeba's Loopback to do it (so I can merge multiple applications and my mics), and it works splendidly.

WASAPI has 2 modes - exclusive and non-exclusive (shared). MC uses exclusive mode as its default.  Non-exclusive (shared) WASAPI is not a useful settings, since it uses the mixer to output everything at the shared sample rate.  It is the exclusive mode that preventing sharing, not WASAPI. 

Not long ago, Matt suggested changing the WASAPI default to shared (non-exclusive) and the discussion was that shared (non-exclusive) WASAPI is just not a useful mode.  Shared WASAPI is basically useless, therefore it is not well known. But it does exist.

With a WASAPI device selected, look at Device Settings. You can turn Exclusive Mode off.  It would be interesting to see if Zoom finds the device with Exclusive Mode off for a WASAPI device.

[glynor]

I know it exists, but it usually doesn't work with these types of applications.

I haven't specifically tried it with Zoom, but I know most screen capture apps also can't "see" WASAPI even if it is in shared mode. TeamViewer won't re-transmit audio like it does, etc. I'd be surprised if it worked other than with DirectShow mode.

But, either way, the answer is to make a different Zone. I have a DirectShow zone in MC on many of my machines for this express purpose.

[haggis999]

As far as Exclusive Access is concern, if MC is "stopped" by hitting Pause that is different than if it is "stopped" by hitting Stop.  When MC is paused, MC holds one to exclusive access to the device, preventing another program from using the output. When MC is stopped, another application (Zoom) can access the device. Hitting Stop may free up Zoom to access the device. If  both Pause and Stop give you problems, then that is not a solution. Just something to try given that turning of Exclusive mode seems  to help the situation.

You appear to be misunderstanding my requirement. I need Zoom to have access to MC while it is playing music. Stopping MC defeats that purpose.

It isn't Exclusive Access that is blocking it (though that would probably do it too), it is that Zoom can't capture from WASAPI sources. That's common. Most capture-and-retransmit applications like that are DirectShow applications, so if MC is using WASAPI, it is effectively invisible to it.

In fact, that is largely the point of WASAPI. It bypasses the Windows Mixer and sends commands "directly" (through the API) to your sound card. To intercept that, the capture application would need to have driver-level access to the system. Zoom, definitely, does not.

I haven't specifically tried it with Zoom, but I know most screen capture apps also can't "see" WASAPI even if it is in shared mode. TeamViewer won't re-transmit audio like it does, etc. I'd be surprised if it worked other than with DirectShow mode.

Zoom seems to be more capable than you are assuming. If you look at post #3 in this thread you will see that I have already succeeded in sharing media over Zoom with that media being played by MC in 'High Definition Audio Device [WASAPI]' mode with exclusive access turned OFF. That mode didn't work with Zoom when exclusive access was active.

But, either way, the answer is to make a different Zone. I have a DirectShow zone in MC on many of my machines for this express purpose.

I'm based in the UK and was safely tucked up in bed when you were posting here, but the last thought in my mind before I nodded off was that exploiting Zones was possibly a good way to switch between my normal MC configuration and my Zoom configuration. It's good to hear that I am on the right track. I plan to check out Zones later today.

[dtc]

You appear to be misunderstanding my requirement. I need Zoom to have access to MC while it is playing music. Stopping MC defeats that purpose.

The idea was to use Stop to stop playing, then let Zoom access the device, then start the music once Zoom has accessed the device.  That may not be the easiest way to do the sharing, but that was the idea behind using Stop rather than Pause before you share with Zoom.

[haggis999]

The idea was to use Stop to stop playing, then let Zoom access the device, then start the music once Zoom has accessed the device.  That may not be the easiest way to do the sharing, but that was the idea behind using Stop rather than Pause before you share with Zoom.

OK. Now I understand what you were getting at. However, I was never playing any music via MC before starting a Zoom session and so there was nothing for me to pause or stop. In other words, I have always been starting Zoom before MC and that is therefore not an alternative solution for my original problem.

Turning off exclusive access for WASAPI (or using Direct Sound, which doesn't offer exclusive access) has proved to be the only way to fix the Zoom issue.

[dtc]

OK. Now I understand what you were getting at. However, I was never playing any music via MC before starting a Zoom session and so there was nothing for me to pause or stop. In other words, I have always been starting Zoom before MC and that is therefore not an alternative solution for my original problem.

Turning off exclusive access for WASAPI (or using Direct Sound, which doesn't offer exclusive access) has proved to be the only way to fix the Zoom issue.

Sounds like you have the situation well in hand. This may be the first real use for shared WASAPI

[glynor]

Zoom seems to be more capable than you are assuming. If you look at post #3 in this thread you will see that I have already succeeded in sharing media over Zoom with that media being played by MC in 'High Definition Audio Device [WASAPI]' mode with exclusive access turned OFF. That mode didn't work with Zoom when exclusive access was active.

Wow. That's cool. It definitely doesn't work with most other similar things.

But, either way. Making a new Zone (either DirectShow or non-exclusive WASAPI) is the way to go. While Zones are supposedly "for" switching to different audio devices for simultaneous playback, they are really effectively, "sets of settings" that you can use to quickly switch between different Audio setups.

[haggis999]

Wow. That's cool. It definitely doesn't work with most other similar things.

But, either way. Making a new Zone (either DirectShow or non-exclusive WASAPI) is the way to go. While Zones are supposedly "for" switching to different audio devices for simultaneous playback, they are really effectively, "sets of settings" that you can use to quickly switch between different Audio setups.

I have now created a Zone called 'Zoom video conferencing' with the appropriate audio settings as an alternative to the default 'Player' Zone. As long as I remember to switch MC to that Zoom Zone before initiating screen sharing, all will be well during a Zoom session.