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[haggis999]

I'm using a combination of PowerPoint and MC to play videos over Zoom and it would be create a slicker presentation process if I could prevent an automatic switch from Display view to Standard view at the end of the video.

I've had a look in Options but failed to find any relevant setting. Have I missed something?

[wer]

You don't say how you're implementing this combination.

Have you tried manually putting MC in display mode, leaving it there, and then embedding MCWS commands in your PPT?

[haggis999]

You don't say how you're implementing this combination.

Have you tried manually putting MC in display mode, leaving it there, and then embedding MCWS commands in your PPT?

I have set up MC commands in a BAT file triggered via PP to automatically open up MC in Display view and play video(s) from a pre-defined playlist. To be more precise, a button in PP is set to run a VBS file that calls the BAT file, which avoids a short flash of the command prompt window. That's all working fine.

If MC has no option for staying in Display view while showing the final frame of the video, then I already have another solution, which is to add a 20 sec plain black background movie clip to the playlist. MC will automatically switch to that clip after the primary video has ended. That gives me time to arrange a cleaner exit by hitting Ctrl-2 to switch to the Mini view, from where I can close MC if required.

[glynor]

Use a Detached Display. They don't exit, and just go black with a little "lightly watermarked" MC logo. It also hides the playback controls, which is nice.

I do this regularly in Webex and Zoom. Works awesome if you have dual monitors, but you could even use it with a single monitor.

[glynor]

I should also note, it is definitely possible to play to a Detached Display from your VBSs. Let me know if you can't figure it out.

Oh, and if you really, really want to, you can also eliminate the on-black MC logo (which is subtle and probably not a big deal) by fiddling with the skin.

[haggis999]

I should also note, it is definitely possible to play to a Detached Display from your VBSs. Let me know if you can't figure it out.

Oh, and if you really, really want to, you can also eliminate the on-black MC logo (which is subtle and probably not a big deal) by fiddling with the skin.

I couldn't find an MC command for detaching the display, but I'm not sure that a detached display meets my needs, as you appear to lose all the normal playback controls.

[wer]

If you're going to be giving presentations, use a remote. Then you don't need on screen controls at all.

[haggis999]

If you're going to be giving presentations, use a remote. Then you don't need on screen controls at all.

I actually bought a Logitech remote before I realised that it doesn't do the job in this case. There appears to be no way to click the PP buttons that trigger media playback via MC.

[wer]

Well, you can get a hybrid remote, that combines remote keys with an air mouse, but I actually meant something different before.

You already have a means of triggering the playback in PP: you must if you've been doing it.  But you complained about the lack of playback controls for the detached display.  What I meant was use an RC6 type remote, just for MC. MC does not need focus to respond to those commands, so you can use such a remote to control MC regardless of what is happening in PP or what has focus on screen.  Do you follow what I mean?

[haggis999]

Well, you can get a hybrid remote, that combines remote keys with an air mouse, but I actually meant something different before.

You already have a means of triggering the playback in PP: you must if you've been doing it.  But you complained about the lack of playback controls for the detached display.  What I meant was use an RC6 type remote, just for MC. MC does not need focus to respond to those commands, so you can use such a remote to control MC regardless of what is happening in PP or what has focus on screen.  Do you follow what I mean?

I did a search for an air mouse some time ago. All I found were unbranded Chinese items with questionable user reviews. I'm not familiar with the term RC6, but a Google search brought up a list of many very different remotes, including one for Canon digital cameras. It would be useful if you can quote a more specific example of what you had in mind.

Since my earlier post, I have found that a Detached Display does actually offer some controls. Rolling my mouse wheel does fast forward/reverse and clicking the screen pauses playback.   

[glynor]

I couldn't find an MC command for detaching the display

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Center_Core_Commands#Playback
10037   MCC_DETACH_DISPLAY   bool bDetach (-1 toggles)

Code: [Select]

set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.Run """C:\WINDOWS\system32\MC27.exe"" /MCC 10037, 1"
You are correct, however, that you don't have access to the normal Play Controls within the Detached Display. This is an unmitigated benefit for my use cases.

Keyboard controls still work though, as do all of the command line functions. And, if you have a separate display, the full MC UI is available there, and it has the regular play controls.

[glynor]

Since my earlier post, I have found that a Detached Display does actually offer some controls. Rolling my mouse wheel does fast forward/reverse and clicking the screen pauses playback.

Yes. The OSD is still accessible via the arrow keys too.

[haggis999]

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Center_Core_Commands#Playback
10037   MCC_DETACH_DISPLAY   bool bDetach (-1 toggles)

Code: [Select]

set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.Run """C:\WINDOWS\system32\MC27.exe"" /MCC 10037, 1"
You are correct, however, that you don't have access to the normal Play Controls within the Detached Display. This is an unmitigated benefit for my use cases.

Keyboard controls still work though, as do all of the command line functions. And, if you have a separate display, the full MC UI is available there, and it has the regular play controls.

Thanks for the command info. I must have screwed up when I previously ran a search for 'detach' on the same web page you quoted.

I don't have a spare display screen, but even if I did, there is no room for another display on my computer desk. Now that I have discovered the mouse-based controls I mentioned in my last post (plus the OSD options you have just mentioned), the Detached Display option is now looking much more attractive. I will have to give it a more thorough road test to see if it beats the plain black background movie clip method I mentioned in my second post in this thread.

[wer]

RC6 is a standard for IR remotes for PCs, also called MCE remotes (From Windows Media Center Edition).

Here's an example:
https://www.amazon.com/Runrain-Control-RC1314401-00-Windows/dp/B07P62WZM4

HP made them too. Check ebay for HP MCE remote. JRiver used to sell them too. HP stopped making them, so as with a lot of things, the new ones are all Chinese.  But I wouldn't have mentioned this stuff to you if it didn't work. I have one myself.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-RC6-IR-MCE-Remote-Control-For-Microsoft-Windows-Vista-7-8-Media-Center-RCE3/332829208747?hash=item4d7e2ab0ab:g:D1MAAOSwQqJbtlQb
Is that name-brand enough?

Your PC would need an infrared receiver as well, if it doesn't have it built in.

JRiver has support for this type of remote built in.  It functions as a native remote control, instead of as an emulated keyboard, which means the app does not need to have the focus to see the commands.

As far as air mice, there are cheap ones and expensive ones. Suit yourself.  Gyration is very well known, and are commonly used in enterprise conference rooms. 

[glynor]

Along those lines, I have a Logitech Harmony Hub Smart Remote (the simple one, without the screen) which I use for my HTPC and it works over RF and Bluetooth, and works well.

That all said, if they wanted to add a "pause on last frame" option like VLC Player has (which, if enabled, is Zone specific) I'd use it for sure.

[wer]

I actually use that too (Harmony Elite).  But I have it sending RC6 codes, because of the focus issue.  The focus issue is really the one downside of something like a FLIRC.  Since I was guessing that PP would have the focus during his presentation, those keyboard-emulation remotes might be problematic.

[glynor]

Yeah. MC handles the Media Keys itself though, so that works even if it isn't foreground. You can also set the Detached Display to always be on top.

But, for the record, my HTPC does have a USB UIRT which I use to receive IR commands from the Logitech (I set some of the buttons to Media Center PC emulation mode) which I then catch in Girder and do what I want with them.

Play controls via Bluetooth on the Hub-based remotes "just work" though, with MC in the default Media Key handling mode. I can always tell whenever Girder crashes because those keep working, OK and Arrows keep working, but my other buttons stop working.

PS. If I had it to do again, and when I do, I won't do it in Girder (I'll likely switch to EventGhost). But, I already have Girder and it is all set up and has been working fine for years and years, except it is crashy sometimes.

[wer]

Yeah, Bluetooth is another option. My HTPC doesn't have BT built in though, so I always forget about that.

[haggis999]

RC6 is a standard for IR remotes for PCs, also called MCE remotes (From Windows Media Center Edition).

Here's an example:
https://www.amazon.com/Runrain-Control-RC1314401-00-Windows/dp/B07P62WZM4

HP made them too. Check ebay for HP MCE remote. JRiver used to sell them too. HP stopped making them, so as with a lot of things, the new ones are all Chinese.  But I wouldn't have mentioned this stuff to you if it didn't work. I have one myself.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-RC6-IR-MCE-Remote-Control-For-Microsoft-Windows-Vista-7-8-Media-Center-RCE3/332829208747?hash=item4d7e2ab0ab:g:D1MAAOSwQqJbtlQb
Is that name-brand enough?

Your PC would need an infrared receiver as well, if it doesn't have it built in.

JRiver has support for this type of remote built in.  It functions as a native remote control, instead of as an emulated keyboard, which means the app does not need to have the focus to see the commands.

As far as air mice, there are cheap ones and expensive ones. Suit yourself.  Gyration is very well known, and are commonly used in enterprise conference rooms.

I don't doubt that MCE remotes can work with MC, but there is obviously a rapidly shrinking market for such devices as users switch to solutions based on smartphones or tablets. As far as I am aware, Logitech appears to be the last major manufacturer in this area.

For many years I used programmable remotes for my AV kit. I started with a Philips Pronto and then got a Universal Remote Control MX-850 just before URC stopped selling to end users in the UK. The MX-850 was very well made but no remote lasts for ever. When some of the buttons became unreliable I bought a used MX-850 via eBay from the USA. It also had problems and I got a refund. I'm therefore a bit wary of buying used remotes. However, no hand-held remote will offer a slick solution for PP presentations over Zoom, where my hands are already occupied with a mouse and keyboard. 

I've never heard of them before, but Gyration's products look interesting. Thanks for that tip, though an air mouse would only be relevant to live PP presentations.   

Yeah. MC handles the Media Keys itself though, so that works even if it isn't foreground. You can also set the Detached Display to always be on top.

But, for the record, my HTPC does have a USB UIRT which I use to receive IR commands from the Logitech (I set some of the buttons to Media Center PC emulation mode) which I then catch in Girder and do what I want with them.

Play controls via Bluetooth on the Hub-based remotes "just work" though, with MC in the default Media Key handling mode. I can always tell whenever Girder crashes because those keep working, OK and Arrows keep working, but my other buttons stop working.

PS. If I had it to do again, and when I do, I won't do it in Girder (I'll likely switch to EventGhost). But, I already have Girder and it is all set up and has been working fine for years and years, except it is crashy sometimes.

I have a currently unused FLIRC dongle and have sometimes thought about getting a Logitech Harmony 950 IR remote, as it seems to be a modern equivalent of my old URC MX-850. However, your comments about reliability suggest that it might be better to consider the hub-based Logitech Harmony Elite.

Do both these programmable remotes do the same things as the old MCE remotes?

[glynor]

Do both these programmable remotes do the same things as the old MCE remotes?

Yes. They can fully emulate the MCE remotes, but can do other things too. The software you use to "program" them is a bit odd, but it works fine (the mobile/tablet version works better than the Windows version, but both work) and you only really need to go in there once to set it up and then you never need it again.

Two nice thing about the hub-based remotes are:
1. They have bluetooth keyboard emulation, which is often much faster and more reliable than IR. You can also set individual buttons to different "modes" (so you can have some do IR blasts, and others do bluetooth keyboard emulation, and choose what key it represents).

2. If you do need to use IR blasting, the IR transmitter is in the hub, not the remote. The hub (which comes with a little movable IR emitter doodad) can be placed with your receiver or PC and your remote remains "non-directional". I'll also note: the emitter on it (and the separate emitter) are quite powerful, and I don't even really need to get them that close to any controlled devices.

I've had my Smart Remote for more than 5 years now, and it has been rock-solid. The nice thing about the little-screenless one is that it uses almost no power. I've replaced the lithium button-cell battery in it precisely 1 time in over 5 years.

I did just very recently have one button on it that stopped working. I'm not sure if this is child-related or if it just failed (it was only one button, and not even a frequently used one: the E button in the bottom-right of the number-pad). In any case, I like it enough that I just ordered a new one.

I've used a wide variety of different programmable remotes previously and this is hands-down my favorite.

[wer]

Everything glynor said is true.

There are also two not-so-nice things about the hub-based remotes, besides the high cost.

1. They do not have mouse functionality. This is why I suggested a hybrid remote (with air mouse functionality): they provide the buttons you need (often programmable), plus they let you click on things (which you said you wanted to do).

2. They are not completely reliable. The hub-based remotes will sometimes temporarily lose their network connection; or need to be rebooted; or just not respond.  It happens, even to the expensive Harmony remotes.  They work 98% of the time; occasionally they don't.  If you want something to be 100% reliable when you're giving a presentation, stupider devices are more reliable.  Standard keyboard/mouse is highly reliable, but when you want something to give you full functionality 1-handed, that's not the best way. (I've never needed BOTH hands to operate a presentation, as you seem to.)

Good luck...

[glynor]

1. They do not have mouse functionality. This is why I suggested a hybrid remote (with air mouse functionality): they provide the buttons you need (often programmable), plus they let you click on things (which you said you wanted to do).

Agreed. Girder and Eventghost can emulate mouse control with the U/D/L/R controls, but I don't use that. I just use a separate wireless mouse for the HTPC when I need a mouse. Usually I don't need it though.

They are not completely reliable. The hub-based remotes will sometimes temporarily lose their network connection; or need to be rebooted; or just not respond.

I haven't had this happen. I mean, maybe a handful of times over the years? But certainly not something I'd call "unreliable". Might be something with your network?*

Or perhaps the simpler Smart Remote (which they now seem to call "Companion Remote") are better? But that shouldn't matter since the Hub is what connects to the network... I also don't use any of the fancy "network controls" it can do, so maybe that causes issues? My buttons are all programmed to either Bluetooth or IR MCE emulation, and Girder on my PC handles the rest. Not sure. In any case, that hasn't been my experience. I can't remember the last time I had to reboot the hub.

* Mine is connected to an older Ubiquiti WAP that serves my "guest" network now, but I previously just had a Netgear router fulfilling this role.

[haggis999]

Standard keyboard/mouse is highly reliable, but when you want something to give you full functionality 1-handed, that's not the best way. (I've never needed BOTH hands to operate a presentation, as you seem to.)

Good luck...

During my Zoom PP presentations I would tend to keep my right hand on the mouse for clicking my buttons and use the left hand to advance the slides via the keyboard. If I use the Detached Display method for playing videos then the controls require a mouse for fast forward/reverse and the cursor keys for the OSD.

The situation would be different during a live PP presentation, where one-handed operation is desirable and a hybrid remote may offer the best solution. I certainly plan to check those out when I get a bit more time, though sadly, live presentations appear a long way away at the moment.   

My possible interest in a programmable Harmony remote is not aimed at PP presentations. It's mainly for simplifying a multi-remote AV scenario for non-technical members of the family, i.e. everyone but me     

[glynor]

PS. I just found my purchase of my original (and current, till the new one comes) remote in my Newegg history: 08/2014

The dumb E button failed maybe 4 months ago. So pretty close to 6 years of constant use as the only remote for my home theater setup.

[glynor]

My possible interest in a programmable Harmony remote is not aimed at PP presentations. It's mainly for simplifying a multi-remote AV scenario for non-technical members of the family, i.e. everyone but me 

This was my goal, and has been a huge success for my family. I do have a fairly "simple" (or complex, depending on how you look at it) Home Theater setup, though.

My receiver is hooked up to precisely one device: the HTPC. It has no cable box, no BluRay player, no game console, no other input devices connected of any kind.* On the Logitech remote, I have the central "TV" mode-button set up to turn the TV and Receiver on and make sure they're on the right inputs (to thwart any manual button-pressing guest-monsters), send a "wake" command to the PC, and activate the HTPC "button layout". Many of the buttons just do their keyboard equivalent via Bluetooth: U/D/L/R, OK (enter), Vol Up/Down, Back (esc), number pad buttons, play controls (except record which is MCE and handled by Girder). The rest are mapped to MCE IR codes, which I then catch in Girder and use to run context-determined macros and VB scripts.

The DVR button launches MC in Theater View, or does the equivalent of F11 if MC is already running. Guide launches the full-screen/tablet version of the Windows 10 start button, from which I can launch other applications if needed. In most applications, Info does the Keyboard Menu button, though this varies from application to application.

My wife occasionally still has trouble with it, but that's because Girder seems to "hate her" and always picks when she's trying to use it alone to crash. (I should really replace girder with Eventghost, but I'm lazy-busy.) My daughter, now 9, has known how to use the setup without help since she was 3 1/2.

* In fact, it drives me kinda crazy the price I paid for the Receiver, considering it is a glorified power amp (that always stays at the same volume level) and HDMI decoder. Since MC does all of the audio decoding, it doesn't even have to do that. I just send it 8 channels of PCM over HDMI. I used to play around with Bitstreaming but letting MC decode everything is less fiddly and "just works" (and I like its "night mode" better than the receiver's).

But it is nice and it does the job. The "music" mode-button on the Logitech is set to activate the Receiver's "AirPlay" mode, but I almost never use that. The "movie mode" button used to switch it to my old Gen3 AppleTV, but we never used it, and one day the AppleTV died and I didn't replace it, so it now does nothing. I don't have any smart lights or anything, and my remote is the older version that lacks those controls, but if I ever get something I might use them on the new one to set the "mood lighting" in the living room.

[wer]

I mean, maybe a handful of times over the years? But certainly not something I'd call "unreliable". Might be something with your network?

I didn't call it "unreliable", I called it "not completely reliable".    The failure rate is indeed low, but it's not zero.  I have been using the Harmony Elite every day for years now.  It's fine. Every once in a while it will miss a couple of button presses. Not a big deal, but also not something you'd want to happen during a presentation.  A presentation needs to be flawless.  I'm just saying in contrast to a normal simple IR remote: as long as you have good batteries and line of sight, those are essentially 100% reliable.

There's no network involved, because the scenario I'm describing is when the Hub is using its IR blaster. So it's just RF between the remote and the hub.  My hub is in a cabinet, so perhaps the RF signal is not as strong as it could be.

The only time I would call the Harmony "unreliable" is when controlling my Roku Streaming Stick via Wifi; but it's the Roku itself that is unreliable.  It often doesn't respond to its own remote.  There's nothing wrong with my network, you can trust me on that.

It may well be that your model is more reliable than the Elite. The Elite is the fancy one with the screen.  Generally the more complicated things get, the less reliable they are. I even had the remote itself crash once.   Nonetheless, I'd definitely recommend it, as it's infinitely better than going without, or using some clumsy primitive remote.

[glynor]

I didn't call it "unreliable", I called it "not completely reliable".    The failure rate is indeed low, but it's not zero.

Hah! Fair enough. 

In that context, I get what you mean, certainly. I do professional presentation AV and IT Support. For a presentation remote, I love me my R800s. I have had them fail on me in large events jammed full of crazy RF from hundreds of sources, and for those we use fancier, and even more rock-solid transmitters, but I have R800s in all of our Auditoriums and they Just Work.

[glynor]

Worth noting: I have two Spotlights too. I was hoping they'd be a good "Air Mouse" but:

1. They're no good for "walk in" users (I can't pop a nubbin in the side of a visitor's laptop and have it work - it needs drivers). I have PCs and Macs built into the lecterns, but the scientists always come with some crazy setup they need for a demo of some kind or another (bioinformaticians I'm looking at you), and they have to use their own.*

2. The Air Mouse feature on it is really good when it is really good, but it gets confused enough that for everyday use "driving" the computer (not Presenting), I'd usually pull out a Magic Trackpad or real mouse.

* Plus I'm not fond-at-all of plugging their USB drive into my computers to transfer their talk. They almost never refuse, which makes the info security person in me terrified (but it also makes my job easier, and I'm not being evil in this case).

[marko]

I got ours back in 2015 on your recommendation glynor... Thank you.


Paid £68 for it. Hands down the best bit of kit I've ever purchased (the HTPC itself runs it a close second though). It just works. Literally nothing about it annoys me. Someone at Logitech put a lot of thought into designing that thing.

We very rarely use the apps on our phones, I don't like the fact you have to look at the screen. Pick the remote up, and you know where the buttons are by feel alone. My wife never uses the app, and I use it now and again when she won't relinquish the remote and I use it to annoy her

I note from Amazon that these are no longer available... "There is a newer version of this product..." now costing £140 
My gut tells me that it wouldn't be as good as the old one 

[glynor]

I note from Amazon that these are no longer available... "There is a newer version of this product..." now costing £140 
My gut tells me that it wouldn't be as good as the old one 

Yeah. They discontinued the original ones quite some time ago, and replaced them with the same thing with the "smart light" buttons (so they could cash in on the "smart home" stuff, I assume). It otherwise looks identical.

And Logitech has long had a business model where all their stuff had very high MSRPs but then they were always available for 50-60% off list at retail. I'm pretty sure when those first came out, they were listed at ~$110 but I sure didn't pay that much. But, since the pandemic, they're putting everything they have into making webcams and microphones (which are sold out everywhere all the time, for months) and everything they make has gone to at or above list. I imagine it is worse across the pond. I suppose that's working out pretty well for them.

In any case, I bought one, though it hasn't arrived yet.