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[glynor]

Pretty much the subject says it all. I've been helping my brother-in-law get his MC Library cleaned up. He's on an older iMac (though is getting a shiny new Mini soon). It was driving me crazy remotely via TeamViewer and AnyDesk. I, at first, thought it was just the remote control software interfering, but then I tried it out on my own Macs, and same deal.

If you drag-drop > Copy to create a new View in the Tree on the macOS version of MC (both 26 & 27, FWIW) it:

• Beachballs
• Then, when it un-sticks, it finally shows the Copy/Move popup.
• If you choose Copy, it creates a new one, but it does not create it at the right "tier" of the Tree. Instead, it almost always creates it as a new sub-item of the one you were trying to copy originally.

Every time. Can't make it stop.

[bob]

Would you mind making a short video of this?
I can't reproduce it.

[glynor]

Not at all. Not tonight, though.

[Fred1]

I have the same problem every time i try.

[glynor]

So, I just went to actually make the video for you, and I couldn't reproduce it. Drag-dropping views was working perfectly.
EDIT: I figured out why this initial attempt was immune. See also my other post below for that explanation, but the rest of this is still valid.

However, when I went to make the video, I'd done it using my own Library. When I first discovered the issue, I was (as mentioned above) trying to help my brother-in-law with his Library. So, I'd restored a Library backup of his Library to my own machine(s). I still have that one I'd loaded in my Library Manager, so I reloaded it, and it does the Beachball and wrong-drop thing. I, at first, thought (from this evidence) that it might have been something specific to his Library.

But, I was fairly certain I already had this thought and had tested before. So, I switched back to my own (various different Libraries) and they're all doing it again now too. I also got a strange error message when trying to drop a View as well: This operation cannot be completed because the desired action is ambiguous or not possible.

So, I'm not sure what is going on. Perhaps just switching Libraries is triggering it? Though, I never switched Libraries on his machine (at least, not anytime recently). And, quitting and relaunching doesn't help. I can't get "back" to the "good" behavior again now. I may try to reboot and see if that helps after I post this, but right now, I'm not sure. EDIT: Nope. I figured out why I couldn't reproduce it initially. See below.

In any case, I recorded this entire episode (except my initial attempt where it worked correctly):
http://glynor.com/files/jriver/Issues/Mac-Drag_Dropping_Views_Issue/Mac-View-Drag-Drop_Issue.mp4

Here's the Log from that machine, in case it helps. I did quit and relaunch MC a few times throughout, and I'm not sure what is captured or not, but it does contain at least one reproduction of the issue in the most recent launch:
http://glynor.com/files/jriver/Issues/Mac-Drag_Dropping_Views_Issue/JRiver%20Log%202020-11-08%2021-16-46.zip

And, here are some Library backups. First, his Library (made on his machine):
http://glynor.com/files/jriver/Issues/Mac-Drag_Dropping_Views_Issue/MC%20Library%20Backup%20(Millers%20-%20Before%20Import).zip

And here's one from my "Laptop" library (made after the tests):
http://glynor.com/files/jriver/Issues/Mac-Drag_Dropping_Views_Issue/MC%20Library%20Backup%20(Laptop%20-%202020-11-08%2021-12).zip

Note: When I restored his Library on my machine, I did NOT restore all settings, just the Library itself.

[glynor]

I just discovered something in further testing (and figured out why my initial attempt to reproduce it didn't show the issue)! It is something about the Views themselves that we have (in both "his" Library and my own) that causes it.

On both of our Libraries, I can reproduce it when drag-dropping Views within in the Audio section of the tree, and those within the Advanced (All Media) top-level Views I made. But, if I switch to Video or Images top-level Views, and drag-drop within those, it works correctly. No hang, and the drop-target works properly. I just checked, and the same thing applies to my copy of MC 26 on my Mac Mini (which has it's own "version" of the local Library, though much older).

When I first tried to reproduce it (before I'd started recording, as a "sanity check") and then couldn't reproduce it, I was in the Video views (because that's where it happened to start up when I launched it).

I should also briefly explain about the "local" Libraries on these various machines: I don't really use them. These copies of MC are used effectively exclusively as Clients. When I install MC, I do set them up with local libraries so that if I need to use MC offline with local content, I have a working option. To do this, I take a current backup of my main server's Library (a snapshot of it at that moment), and restore it to the client machine. Then I go in my Advanced\All Databases View and find-select all of the files in the Library and remove them until there's nothing left. Then, I import any local content I have stored on the machine in question. The Laptop in particular, because I was just getting MC27 set up on it, was in a bit of a state of dis-repair for this reason (I hadn't really finished setting it up yet).

The Mac Mini hasn't been upgraded to MC27 yet, and so it just has the Local Library I set up (as described above) a year or 18 months ago or so when I set up MC26 on that machine. But, same deal on it. I can reproduce it in Audio and Advanced/All, but I can't reproduce it under Video or Images (even though the "version" of that Library I have is quite old).

However, I "cleared" the "default" Library on my laptop's MC 27 copy and I cannot reproduce it there, but it is still happening on my "Laptop" local Library and my brother-in-law's (and my Mini's Local Library). So, it seems to be something "within" the Audio and/or Advanced top-level Views I have in all of those.

The thing is, I did not restore my Library on-top of my brother-in-law's machine (via that method I described above). I was recreating a number of the same Views I have in my own Library for him, but I was doing them by hand, because he has his own content I don't want to clear (and he doesn't need exactly what I have and use, he needs some of it, tuned for how he's going to use it).

I should also note: Windows doesn't have any issue with any of these Libraries. In fact, that's how I got past my issue with my brother-in-law's system. I restored his backup onto my Windows machine, made the changes there, and then restored it back to his own machine. So, whatever it is, the Windows version of MC is immune to it.

[glynor]

I have the same problem every time i try.

See if you can also narrow it down. Does it apply only to some of the "top-level" Views in your Tree as in my case? If you were trying under Audio, try under Video or Images as a test and see if it happens there (etc, etc).

Since I don't know you, and our stuff is all completely independent, this might be a useful clue as to what, specifically, is causing it.

[Fred1]

As i use MC in Audio mode only, i can't say anything about Video or Images.

I mainly do tagging with MC, so i often need different views for different genres and classical music. Playback is mostly done by Roon.

I have a lot of titles to manage but cloning views by drag and drop in the tree is nearly impossible because it takes ages to react. And when it is done, the new view isn't in the right place. So i always do it manually.

[glynor]

As i use MC in Audio mode only, i can't say anything about Video or Images.

I'm not asking you to use MC for Video or Images, just to try to reproduce drag-dropping the Views in those sections of the Tree, to see if it behaves normally or not for you too.

[Fred1]

It differs:

Dragging and copying "Movies" to "Video" for the first time creates a "Movies (1)" folder as subfolder of "Video". That's ok.

The next time(s) i do the same sequence creates a different result:

Dragging the standard view "Movies" to "Video" and select "Copy", it results in creating a "Movies" entry as subfolder of "Files" instead of a subfolder of "Video".

The same is true for the other standard views in subsequent tries.

[glynor]

It differs:

Dragging and copying "Movies" to "Video" for the first time creates a "Movies (1)" folder as subfolder of "Video". That's ok.

The next time(s) i do the same sequence creates a different result:

Dragging the standard view "Movies" to "Video" and select "Copy", it results in creating a "Movies" entry as subfolder of "Files" instead of a subfolder of "Video".

The same is true for the other standard views in subsequent tries.

Interesting. The first result is normal behavior. The second result (which I never tried) is broken. I just tested it with my Video view, and I couldn't reproduce your second issue. It appears to be working correctly for me, as it just makes a second one with (2) after it when I try, which is proper.

[glynor]

I should also note: When you're watching the screen recording I made, it doesn't show the beachball cursor. This is just an artifact of the screen recording API (which apparently doesn't capture that).

When I pause for a long time after dropping the View item, in "real life" it is showing a beachball cursor until the Copy/Move popup appears.

[bob]

I should also note: When you're watching the screen recording I made, it doesn't show the beachball cursor. This is just an artifact of the screen recording API (which apparently doesn't capture that).

When I pause for a long time after dropping the View item, in "real life" it is showing a beachball cursor until the Copy/Move popup appears.

That helps, I wondered what was going on there.

I get a different weird behavior.
Are you using a current release build like 27.0.22 or the BETA native screen build (current is 27.0.31) ?

[glynor]

Are you using a current release build like 27.0.22 or the BETA native screen build (current is 27.0.31) ?

The recording was made with the native screen build (happened to be 27.0.26), but the issue happens with MC 26 as well.

[bob]

It looks like the reason I can't see this is the dragging that needs to copy all of the pathnames under the view onto the clipboard because of the multiple different places you could drop it.

I bet you guys have very large libraries.

[Fred1]

Yes, the problem arises with my large library.
With a small library there is no beachball, but the other problems remain.

[glynor]

I just tested myself, since I was planning to clear the Library on my Laptop anyway. Same exact Library, cleared of all files, works fast and without issue.

My Library isn't "of legendary size" though. The Music\All Music View that was behaving poorly in my screen recording had ~40k files visible (all broken links, fwiw). My brother-in-law's Mac had ~51k (all on his external USB drive thing, or broken links when I tested it). I don't feel either is "insane" with the Library sizes users have here, though. (Now, my Advanced\Disk Location or Advanced\All Databases Views that also misbehaved are... Substantially larger.)

So, I think you've solved the cause at least.

For the solution, not sure... Can you build the clipboard data if needed on-drop (where you'll know the target and so not build it if it isn't needed, lazy style) instead of on-drag? Does the clipboard data even build properly now with 39k files? Perhaps it is just overflowing somewhere, and so gets confused (hence the drop-targeting errors)?

[bob]

If you try the latest beta version 27.0.32, the drop placement will be correct and it will work properly on retina monitors now.
Nothing has been do with regards to the large number of items drag/drop issue yet.

I'm about ready to call this the distribution build, I don't think there are any video issues that are worse than the non-native build.
I'd like some feedback on that.

[glynor]

Sorry. I didn't get a chance to test this this weekend, despite my best intentions. I will. Maybe not tonight though.

I've had no issues at all with the native builds (at least, no issues not also present in older builds).

[glynor]

I finally had a chance to re-test this using the current beta build (.32) and there was no change at all. Still beachballs (as expected) but also still drops-wrong.

I can reproduce the "ambiguous" error more easily now, but aside from that, behavior appears unchanged.

[glynor]

I did also find that doing a search on the View before drag-dropping it (to eliminate all visible files in the view) does NOT solve the issue.

So, for example, I searched a Music view for [Actors] is not Empty (which resulted in 0 files), and then drag-dropped it to its parent: still happens.

[bob]

I finally had a chance to re-test this using the current beta build (.32) and there was no change at all. Still beachballs (as expected) but also still drops-wrong.

I can reproduce the "ambiguous" error more easily now, but aside from that, behavior appears unchanged.

I am completely unable to reproduce the "wrong" drop.

[glynor]

Load either of the Library Backups I shared above.

And, here are some Library backups. First, his Library (made on his machine):
http://glynor.com/files/jriver/Issues/Mac-Drag_Dropping_Views_Issue/MC%20Library%20Backup%20(Millers%20-%20Before%20Import).zip

And here's one from my "Laptop" library (made after the tests):
http://glynor.com/files/jriver/Issues/Mac-Drag_Dropping_Views_Issue/MC%20Library%20Backup%20(Laptop%20-%202020-11-08%2021-12).zip

Then try to drag-drop/copy any of the views under Audio\Music in the Tree to any of the "parent" Views.

[glynor]

Any love on this? It is still just as annoying as when I initially reported it (though somewhat better that I know that it only happens on some Views and not others, though this doesn't really help).

[bob]

Any love on this? It is still just as annoying as when I initially reported it (though somewhat better that I know that it only happens on some Views and not others, though this doesn't really help).

Not really, I'm been spending most all of my time working on the dual architecture port.

[glynor]

Not really, I'm been spending most all of my time working on the dual architecture port.

Understood. Certainly lower priority than that. So long as it is on your TODO list somewhere.

If you need a new Library Backup from me at any point for whatever reason (though those above still do it and are still available at those links) just let me know.