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Author Topic: Recommendation on "artificial" albums  (Read 1266 times)

wburkett

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Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« on: January 24, 2021, 10:31:31 am »

Hello, all - it's been a while since I've been here.   I'm looking for recommendations on how to approach creating "artificial" albums from more comprehensive bodies of work.  For example, "Peel Slowly and See" (Velvet Underground) is a box set that contains tracks of all of their individual albums.  As a single unit, it's a single Album in media center.  Without duplicating track files into new individual folders, I would like to create an artificial or synthetic album that contains tracks from "Peel Slowly and See" that comprise, for example, "The Velvet Underground & Nico".  I could create playlists, of course, but these wouldn't be recognized by MC as "albums" and wouldn't show up in the Albums pane. 

Thoughts?

TIA - Bill
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zybex

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2021, 12:01:06 pm »

You can edit the [filename] of an existing file in MC and add ";1" to the end. then reimport the folder and MC will import that track again, without the ";1". Both files will now play, but you can now set different Tags for each of them - they're considered different files:

\\NAS\Audio\The Quantic Soul Orchestra - Pushin' On\05 - Feeling Good.flac
\\NAS\Audio\The Quantic Soul Orchestra - Pushin' On\05 - Feeling Good.flac;1
\\NAS\Audio\The Quantic Soul Orchestra - Pushin' On\05 - Feeling Good.flac;2
...

You can have as many copies as you like - just add ;2/3/4...
This works for regular flac/mp3/wav files (1 track per file), but not for CUE/ISO files (multiple tracks per file) as they're already imported using that ;1 syntax.

Alternatively, with Hardlinked files you can have multiple copies of the same file on disk while still using the space of a single copy. An hardlink is similar to a shortcut but is seen by all applications as an actual full file. They're created with the "ln" command in a CMD prompt.
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aviateur

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2021, 03:36:50 pm »

Bill, Hi:

Keeping with the spirit of not duplicating files in your box set album as you indicated and focusing at the track level, is your request one of the following:

1. Assign a track (one physical file) to one MC album.

If this is true, you can just assign new album names for the target tracks you wish to gather into the albums you desire. The newly-generated album names will display as different albums. No physical relocation of files is required. But a track can only be assigned to one album (see next item) so, in essence you would be dividing your box set into albums of your own creation. Again, one album per track.

- or -

2. Assign a track (one physical file) to many MC albums

I'm fairly certain this is not possible in MC using the 'Album' field because it is defined as 'not relational', which implies one string value is assigned per file. That being said, you could create a custom field such as AlbumsRelational (or any name you wish) which would be defined with a data type of 'List (semicolon delimited). This would allow you to store multiple album name values in this field. You would then have to make sure that all your schemes and views used the new field, AlbumsRelational, for album reference. Let me know if you wish to take this idea further. I'm very familiar with custom fields and their use in my own MC environment.

Please let me know if you had something else in mind or if I misunderstood.

Cheers,
Lawrence
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zybex

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2021, 03:45:51 pm »

I did give a way to do 2. above ;D It works, I tested it. Same file, imported multiple times, assigned to different albums with distinct tagging.
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Dawgincontrol

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2021, 08:39:00 pm »

You could also use Windows Explorer and copy the wanted files/tracks into an album folder for each "artificial album" wanted and then relabel them.  You would have duplicates, but depending on your disk space, does it matter?  This method would effect your play count as each file would have their own.

You could also make them (the albums) different disk numbers and list them that way.  It depends on how you want the final product and whether keeping the box set is important to you.
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wburkett

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2021, 10:27:41 pm »

Thanks, everyone --

Yes - I want to do 2.  What zybex describes is exactly what I was looking for: "Same file, imported multiple times, assigned to different albums with distinct tagging."

But what I don't quite grasp, zybex, is that it sounds like you're saying to make a copy of the file and append each copy with the semi-colon and number:

Quote
"\\NAS\Audio\The Quantic Soul Orchestra - Pushin' On\05 - Feeling Good.flac
\\NAS\Audio\The Quantic Soul Orchestra - Pushin' On\05 - Feeling Good.flac;1
\\NAS\Audio\The Quantic Soul Orchestra - Pushin' On\05 - Feeling Good.flac;2"

Or do I just rename the file with ";1", reimport it, and then rename it back to what it was?  (so that there is still only one file?)

Dawgincontrol: you do have a point.  I'm not that concerned about playcount, and it would be easier and more straightforward just to copy the files to create a new "album".  I was hoping to avoid duplicates if there was an easy way to do it. 

Bill
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EnglishTiger

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 12:53:09 am »

There are 2 ways of splitting the Boxset into Individual (Artificial) Albums without ending up with more files.

1 - Add a tag called Collection (or Box Set) - to hold the Boxset Name and then for each "Album" put the Album Title/Name into the Album tag.

or

2 - Add a tag called Disc Name and put the name of the individual album in that one and leave the Boxset Name in the Album Tag
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zybex

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2021, 02:14:44 am »

But what I don't quite grasp, zybex, is that it sounds like you're saying to make a copy of the file and append each copy with the semi-colon and number:

Looks like I didn't explain the idea very well.
You don't rename the actual file, you just change the [Filename] field in MC.

Supposing you have a file called Z:\Music\BlaBla\song.flac
- import the folder
- in MC, change the [Filename] field to Z:\Music\BlaBla\song.flac;1 - do NOT rename the actual file on disk
- import again - MC will reimport the song.flac
- you now have 2 entries for the same song (song.flac and song.flac;1) - you can tag them with distinct values for [Album] or anything else
- if you need more copies, repeat the procedure with ;2 , ;3 , etc...

Hope it's clear now. This works because MC considers song.flac;1 to be a distinct library entry from song.flac, but knows they both point to the actual "song.flac" file, so they both can be played. The ;1 suffix is used by MC to create virtual entries to support audio files containing multiple tracks.
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zybex

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2021, 02:18:18 am »

You could also use Windows Explorer and copy the wanted files/tracks into an album folder for each "artificial album" wanted and then relabel them.  You would have duplicates, but depending on your disk space, does it matter?  This method would effect your play count as each file would have their own.

I mentioned above that you can have multiple copies of the same file in Explorer while using the space of just one. Those are called "hardlinks" and are created with the "ln" command (I'm sure there are GUI tools to create them as well).
A hardlink is just another entry in the Directory which points to the same actual block of data on disk. You can have hardlinks with distinct filenames, on different folders, all pointing to the same block - so they only use up the space of 1 file. They're supported in NTFS, EXT2/3/4, and other common filesystems.

Code: [Select]
ln z:\music\blabla\song.flac z:\music\blabla\songCopy.flacThis creates a songCopy.flac which is an entry pointing to the same data as song.flac. You'll notice the disk free space won't change, and this "copy" operation is instantaneous because it's not actually copying anything, it's just adding an entry to the folder.

Trivia:
SolfLinks are more like shortcuts, it's a small file containing the path to the linked file.
Hardlinks are indistinguishable from a regular file (because they are regular file entries)
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Dawgincontrol

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2021, 09:48:53 am »

I mentioned above that you can have multiple copies of the same file in Explorer while using the space of just one. Those are called "hardlinks" and are created with the "ln" command (I'm sure there are GUI tools to create them as well).
A hardlink is just another entry in the Directory which points to the same actual block of data on disk. You can have hardlinks with distinct filenames, on different folders, all pointing to the same block - so they only use up the space of 1 file. They're supported in NTFS, EXT2/3/4, and other common filesystems.

Code: [Select]
ln z:\music\blabla\song.flac z:\music\blabla\songCopy.flacThis creates a songCopy.flac which is an entry pointing to the same data as song.flac. You'll notice the disk free space won't change, and this "copy" operation is instantaneous because it's not actually copying anything, it's just adding an entry to the folder.

Trivia:
SolfLinks are more like shortcuts, it's a small file containing the path to the linked file.
Hardlinks are indistinguishable from a regular file (because they are regular file entries)

Interesting.  Have to read up on that.  Thanks
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wer

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2021, 01:02:35 pm »

Wburkett, (and others who may be interested in dong this)... Although the solution provided by Zybex does do what you asked for, in that it allows you to virtually "clone" tracks, I would recommend that you don't do it, and instead just make actual duplicate copies of the files and waste a little disk space.

There are reasons why, which have not been discussed or apparently even considered.

When you do this, you are essentially tricking MC into importing the same file multiple times. Whether you do this with filesystem links, or with the ;1 trick, the result is the same: multiple entries in the MC database that refer to the same physical file on the filesystem.  If you use links, even though MC will not know the files are the same, it is important to remember that all these links go to the same physical file.  Here's why that matters.

You were told that you can have different and distinct tags for each of them. But this is only partially true: there's a big "gotcha".  And that is: these methods are incompatible with Saving tags to files, and with Auto-Import.  I'll explain.

It's essential to be able to have distinct tags for each "virtual track" as I'll call them. That's the whole point: you want to be able to give them different [Album] tags, probably different [Track #] tags, all that sort of thing.  But it's this tagging that causes the problem.

If you have "Save in file tags" turned on for any of these fields (as you should) then every time you change one of these tags for one of the "virtual tracks" that change will be written to the file.  THE SAME FILE.  So every time you change the [Album] tag on a different virtual track, that latest tag is written to the one real file, and that file can only hold one [Album] tag. The previous contents of the [Album] tag in the file will be lost.

The problems fall from there like dominoes. If you have auto-import turned on and "update for external changes" is turned on, then when MC notices the file has been modified, it will re-read the tags from the file.  And all the [Album] tags for the 3 copies you've made will be replaced with the one [Album] tag from the one real file.  And all your work is undone: the three virtual tracks are all tagged exactly the same again.

So to get around that, you have to disable auto-import.  Or avoid auto-import by moving any files with "virtual tracks" to a different directory that is not subject to Auto-import. 

But still, if "Save in file tags" is turned on, that one file is going to be "right" for only one of your virtual tracks, and for all the others it will be "wrong".

To get around that, you would have to disable the "Save in file tags" option for all those fields.  But that causes a big problem too.  Because you have to disable it GLOBALLY, for all files in your library.  So [Album] would never be saved to any file tags anywhere.

And THAT has consequences too.  Because if you go that route, and you ever lose your library, you've lost the tag data: you can't recover them from the file because they're not there.  And if the file is for some reason removed from the library and re-imported, you also lose your current tag data for that file, and you can't get it from the file because the file wasn't being updated.  Or if you copy the file to a new PC or give it to someone, the current tag data isn't in it.  All of these are bad.

I always recommend people have "save in file tags" turned on for all tags that they care about, so that the data is recoverable, and the current/correct info is in the files if you ever move them.  But doing that is incompatible with these tricks, simply because there are not enough places to store all these different and distinct tags, except by keeping them in the library and not in the files.

So you can do this if you want, but you need to be aware of the consequences and side effects.  I would not recommend you go this route.  I think you're better off just wasting a little disk space.

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zybex

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2021, 01:11:15 pm »

Yep, true that.
Caveat emptor. Hic sunt dracones.

PS: You can still save distinct external tags using the sidecar.xml files. I personally dislike them, feels like filesystem pollution to me...
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wburkett

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2021, 09:49:04 pm »

Quote
And that is: these methods are incompatible with Saving tags to files, and with Auto-Import.  I'll explain.

Thanks, wer -- you win!  This is a great and important point.

I'll copy the files.

Thanks for suggestions, everyone.

Bill
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MusicBringer

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2021, 06:16:49 am »


I always recommend people have "save in file tags" turned on for all tags that they care about,

That's a good idea. Trouble is it alters the File Date - which for me is the ripped date / date I obtained the file.

▶ How can I save in file tags without losing my Original Date when saving in file tags ❓
thanks,
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zybex

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2021, 06:24:46 am »

You have the [Imported Date] field - assuming you imported it when you ripped it, then it's there.
You can also create another field called [Original Date] or something like that and save the date there.

The file itself also has a Created Date timestamp which you can see on Windows Explorer (or Linux). This date is not changed when the file is modified, but it does change if the file is copied to a different location. Moving the file also preserves the timestamps.
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MusicBringer

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2021, 06:28:52 am »

Ta. That's most helpful 😊
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EnglishTiger

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Re: Recommendation on "artificial" albums
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2021, 09:09:21 am »

That's a good idea. Trouble is it alters the File Date - which for me is the ripped date / date I obtained the file.

▶ How can I save in file tags without losing my Original Date when saving in file tags ❓
thanks,

There is one field/tag that can't be edited, by the user or MC, which contains the date and time the file was ripped - it's called "Date Created"
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