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[HaWi]

I have a Marantz SR-7007 which is capable of receiving PCM, DSD multichannel input, as well as DTS 5.1 and many others. I have attached a screenshot from the SR-7007 manual describing input and output options.
I am trying to find a way to play multichannel audio from MC using DLNA or Airplay but neither work for me. I am pretty sure I am doing something wrong or I am missing something. Is DLAN not able to do this? The AVR can play BluRay via HDMI, so How can I get the signal from my iMac to the AVR's HDMI. Do I need a separate DAC between my iMac and the AVR?
Is there anyone who knows the SR-7007 to help?
The closest I got was playing DTS but it sounds like a record played at too slow a speed.
I suspect this is probably not nearly enough information but I have close to zero knowledge about these things and appreciate any help.

[HaWi]

I managed to play .dsf files from MC27 to my Marantz SR-7007 with the DSP settings as shown in the screenshot below. Format is set to LPCM/16. This is done with DLNA (Audiophile 24-bit DAC).
However, I cannot get it to play more than 2 channels. Is there a way to do that?
Many thanks for any help.

[bob]

I managed to play .dsf files from MC27 to my Marantz SR-7007 with the DSP settings as shown in the screenshot below. Format is set to LPCM/16. This is done with DLNA (Audiophile 24-bit DAC).
However, I cannot get it to play more than 2 channels. Is there a way to do that?
Many thanks for any help.

I don't think that DSD in DoP format is used for DSP studio in DLNA server settings.
I see you have it set to 2 channels out though.
You might try "source number of channels"

[Dawgincontrol]

Had one before the hdmi board went out.

If I remember I selected 5.1 channels, No upmixing or downmixing, Output Encoding none. Then I had the Output Format box unchecked (which makes the unit and its dac do all the work).  It has a good dac and should process the channels correctly.

What gets people hung up a lot of times is thinking they have to let Media Center do all the lifting.  The Marantz receiver will do this.  You can still use Volume Leveling, effects, equalizer, etc. from Media Center without using the Output Format.

Think you can also do this by selecting Output encoding and selecting Dolby Digital if you prefer that, but am not sure.  In this case you would check the box for Output Format.

[wer]

Hawi is trying to do DLNA. And what formats a device will do over HDMI are not necessarily the same as what it will do over DLNA.

What gets people hung up a lot of times is thinking they have to let Media Center do all the lifting.  The Marantz receiver will do this.  You can still use Volume Leveling, effects, equalizer, etc. from Media Center without using the Output Format.

None of those things work over DLNA unless MC transcodes the audio.

Hawi, you should check to see exactly what that device will do over DLNA specifically.

[HaWi]

I don't think that DSD in DoP format is used for DSP studio in DLNA server settings.
I see you have it set to 2 channels out though.
You might try "source number of channels"

Thanks Bob,
I am unable to change the channel setting as soon as I choose the DSD format. The right part under channel settings turns yellow and cannot be modified in MC. Even if I set it to original channel number before, it'll automatically change into what's in the screenshot as soon as DSD is chosen on the left.

[HaWi]

Had one before the hdmi board went out.

If I remember I selected 5.1 channels, No upmixing or downmixing, Output Encoding none. Then I had the Output Format box unchecked (which makes the unit and its dac do all the work).  It has a good dac and should process the channels correctly.

What gets people hung up a lot of times is thinking they have to let Media Center do all the lifting.  The Marantz receiver will do this.  You can still use Volume Leveling, effects, equalizer, etc. from Media Center without using the Output Format.

Think you can also do this by selecting Output encoding and selecting Dolby Digital if you prefer that, but am not sure.  In this case you would check the box for Output Format.

Thank you D,
DSD is the only Output encoding that doesn't generate a "file format error" on the SR7007, except, of course, setting it to none as you suggest. I think it may be a DLNA limitation, as wer points out. I am happy letting the SR7007 do all the lifting. I discovered that I can convert SACD .iso files in MC using the DSP functions, including the appropriate equalizer. Still, I am not seeing more than two channels now. I do remember seeing 5 channel input on the Marantz before, but for the life of me I cannot remember what the settings were or what track I was playing at the time. My bad.

[HaWi]

Thanks Bob,
I am unable to change the channel setting as soon as I choose the DSD format. The right part under channel settings turns yellow and cannot be modified in MC. Even if I set it to original channel number before, it'll automatically change into what's in the screenshot as soon as DSD is chosen on the left.

Thank you, wer
I have been researching what the DLNA limitations on the SR7007 are but haven't come up with much. The manual, though excellent, is absolutely mum about DLNA other than mentioning its existence.
I have also been contemplating putting a DAC of some sort between my iMac and the receiver just so I can get the signal into the receiver through HDMI. Is that a viable solution? If so, what DAC would you recommend?

[bob]

I haven't seen much in the way of multichannel hdmi DACs that do DSD.

If you break your SACD iso down into individual multichannel .dsf tracks and do no DSP, Dop or conversion on them I think you'd be able to get that to work but it will depend on your receiver. I've just started playing with this a bit since I've been accumulating multichannel SACD's and built a 5.1 home system.

The only other option is to use L16 PCM which would support taking your SACD tracks into multichannel L16 to send to your Marantz which of course would have to support multichannel PCM via DLNA.

We can do something similar in 24 bits using L24 to our Id's or another MC renderer but very few software or hardware devices support L24.

Perhaps somewhere down the line MC could do that DSD iso track extraction live but I don't know what kind of work that would entail.

[HaWi]

Thank you Bob,
L16 PCM works over DLNA. The problem is that I cannot set the channels, it always reverts to 2 channels in MC.

[bob]

Thank you Bob,
L16 PCM works over DLNA. The problem is that I cannot set the channels, it always reverts to 2 channels in MC.

You disable DSP studio in this case.

[wer]

Thank you, wer
I have been researching what the DLNA limitations on the SR7007 are but haven't come up with much.

Call Marantz.

[HaWi]

You disable DSP studio in this case.

Thanks Bob, yes, I had.

[HaWi]

Thanks Bob, yes, I had.

Thanks wer, I'll try that. It's an old, discontinued product but maybe they can help.

[bob]

Thank you Bob,
L16 PCM works over DLNA. The problem is that I cannot set the channels, it always reverts to 2 channels in MC.

I'm not sure what you mean by it reverting to 2 channel in MC.
The main DSP studio panel in MC is only for local zone playback as you probably know.
DLNA DSP is set by the DSP studio option under the DLNA server settings in MC.

[HaWi]

Thank you for helping, Bob.
Sorry, my knowledge and understanding are extremely limited.
I have set DSP under Media Network>Add or configure DLNA servers and I am playing the DLNA zone for the AVR. It's clear now that I have set the Audio Mode to Original. Otherwise, with any of the settings on the MacOS MC I get a file format error on the AVR. So I guess then without DSP studio, if the source is multichannel it should also send multichannel. On the receiver, it still shows 2 channels, even though MC says it is playing 6 channels (top bar). So probably an AVR issue.
I'll try to find out more about what the AVR's DLNA can and cannot do but that is difficult. Online searches yielded nothing so far.

[wer]

A key thing to understand Hawi is that DLNA is a file-based protocol.  So MC doesn't really play anything. It sends files to the DLNA Renderer (your Marantz).  If you don't use DSP Studio, MC sends the file as-is.  If you DO use DSP Studio, then MC transcodes the original file to whatever you specify, then sends the resultant file.

In either case, it's up to the renderer (your Marantz) to understand and play the file. If it doesn't understand the file, end of story. You either convert it to a different format, or you don't play it.

Even if the renderer does understand the file, MC doesn't really know what the renderer does with it.  MC can send a 6 channel file, the renderer can say "ok thanks" and then still play the file as 2-channel.

If Marantz support can't tell you what formats it supports via DLNA, then you really only have 3 options:
1. Google
2. Whitebear DLNA Analyzer (limited precision)
3. Trial and error, trying progressively increasing channel counts, sample rates, and formats, until you find the limits.

Here's a report for the Marantz SR-7008, which should be similar to yours. DSF is not listed. It indicates LPCM supports a maximum of 2 channels.

Declared Supported Audio, Image & Video Formats
===============================================

http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-get:*:audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-wavetunes:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
http-get:*:audio/wav:*
http-get:*:audio/x-wav:*
http-get:*:audio/flac:*
http-get:*:audio/x-flac:*
http-get:*:audio/x-m4a:*
http-get:*:audio/x-mp4:*
http-get:*:image/jpeg:*


Evaluated Supported Audio Formats
=================================

audio/L16   LPCM   Dlna   44100   1   16   Yes
audio/L16   LPCM   Dlna   44100   2   16   Yes
audio/L16   LPCM   Dlna   48000   1   16   Yes
audio/L16   LPCM   Dlna   48000   2   16   Yes
audio/mpeg   MP3   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/x-ms-wma   WMABASE   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/x-ms-wma   WMAFULL   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/mp4   AAC_ISO   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/3gpp   AAC_ISO   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/wav   WAV   Fuzzy   *   *   *   Yes
audio/x-wav   WAV   Fuzzy   *   *   *   Yes
audio/flac   FLAC   Fuzzy   *   *   *   Yes
audio/x-flac   FLAC   Fuzzy   *   *   *   Yes
audio/x-m4a   AAC_ISO   Fuzzy   *   2   *   No
audio/x-mp4   AAC_ISO   Fuzzy   *   2   *   No

[HaWi]

Thank you wer, I appreciate your help
This is, unfortunately, the truth. Last night, I also found information from a newer model that states DLNA can only do 2 channels. I also found out that the only way to input and properly process multichannel files on the SR-7007 is by bit-streaming them through either HDMI or the Optical Input (TOSLINK). I have a Macbook Pro with a HDMI port, would that allow me to hook it up directly to the AVR?

[HaWi]

Plugging a HDMI cable from the MacBook into the AUX input at the AVR works. Can get Mch input now and play back 5.1.

[wer]

You wouldn't need to "bitstream" though. The Marantz can understand multichannel PCM, which is what MC would put out if you turn bitstreaming off.  Using bitstreaming prevents use of DSP Studio, so best to leave bitstreaming off.

Glad you made progress.

[HaWi]

Thank you so much wer,
That's a good point. Will turn bit streaming off and play around with the settings a bit more. Since using the MacBook is less than convenient I am considering this DAC
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-essence-hdacc-ii-4k-hdmi-dac.7171/
to connect my iMac to the AVR. I am thinking iMac>USB>DAC>HDMI>AVR(AUX)
Do you think that would work?
EDIT:
There is also this
https://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/product/evolve-ii-4k-hdmi-v2-0-multi-channel-dac/
much cheaper but only has HDMI in. Would I be able to convert USB>HDMI from the iMAc or get the HDMI out from my iMac in any other way?

[wer]

I'm glad to help Hawi.

If the core of the problem is that the computer that you're using for output to your receiver doesn't have HDMI, and you want multi-channel, then if it were me I would probably replace/upgrade the computer.

I don't see what that DAC would accomplish. Putting it in between the computer and the receiver would only make it into a very expensive USB to HDMI converter.  So expensive, it makes it even more attractive to replace the Mac.

Or the same job could be done by one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-USB-HDMI-Adapter-External/dp/B00O6G5ZGI
https://www.amazon.com/j5create-Multi-Adapter-JCA374-Multi-Port-Compatible/dp/B01FI7PEH8
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-Adapter-Black/dp/B00DRK2ZIK

That first one says it supports Mac, but I don't have one to test so you're on your own there.  A bit of googling seems to indicate that different versions of MacOS cause compatibility problems with devices of this type. Also, some devices of that type say they only support 2-channel audio.  But that first one says 5.1 audio (which is not very many channels for HDMI). The last two support 7.1 audio, if Apple doesn't break compatibility.

Here's one made by Apple:
https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter
They don't say how many audio channels it supports. I've seen posts of people complaining they only got 2 channels out of it.

You might be able to find something better with a bit of searching, or a Mac person might be able to recommend something better.

Regarding replacing the Mac, everyone is very excited about the new Mac Mini, but there's a thread here on the forum where Bob is talking about it doesn't seem to support any sample rates other than 48kHz.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,128318.msg891494.html#msg891494
That might be an OS issue, but if it persists it kind of cripples the Mini for audio playback.

Maybe time to switch to Windows for your HTPC? 

[HaWi]

Thank you wer, you are very kind doing all this work for me. I really appreciate that and I am learning  a lot too.
What I found out in the meantime is that by using the HDMi>AUX1 connection I get 5.1 (as the source) input but only analog and straight to the speakers, I guess. Not sure if this even a problem, as long as all the massaging is done by MC.
If I connect to the DVD or BluRay HDMI input on the AVR, I get an error that the signal is basically not processed enough to send to the AVR (I guess that's an issue with the HDMI Core Audio?) or it jut plays silent (not sure what to think about that). So my reasoning was that to get a more "processed" signal, a DAC might help. This indicates that I still don't understand the Audio path, right? I think I need to find out what "HDMI Core Audio" actually means and what signal that generates and if that is good enough to send straight to the AVR.
Thanks again for your help.

[wer]

Yeah I'm guessing you're not understanding something...

What I found out in the meantime is that by using the HDMi>AUX1 connection I get 5.1 (as the source) input but only analog and straight to the speakers, I guess.

I don't understand that statement, since HDMI is digital. So I have no idea what you mean by "but only analog and straight to the speakers".

I get an error that the signal is basically not processed enough to send to the AVR (I guess that's an issue with the HDMI Core Audio?) or it jut plays silent (not sure what to think about that)

Error from what? I'm sure the error message doesn't actually say that. If you'd like to post a screenshot, or type in the error message verbatim, I will try to interpret.

This indicates that I still don't understand the Audio path, right? I think I need to find out what "HDMI Core Audio" actually means and what signal that generates and if that is good enough to send straight to the AVR.

Very likely.  "Core Audio" is just Apple's name for the audio processing layer in their OS.  Read this:
https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/CoreAudioOverview/WhatisCoreAudio/WhatisCoreAudio.html

There is no deficiency in Core Audio itself (aside from those aforementioned issues with the M1 Mac Mini) that will prevent you from sending audio to your AVR.

Your Marantz has HDMI inputs. It understands all the normal HDMI audio formats, like the multichannel PCM that MC prefers to send.

Your iMac lacks an HDMI output, right? It's really as simple as that, isn't it?

So, if you don't want to replace the iMac, you need to give it a working HDMI port.  Since your iMac DOES have USB-A and USB-C/Thunderbolt ports (it does, right?) then you need an HDMI adapter that will work with your iMac. Your iMac is within an HDMI cable's reach of the Marantz, isn't it?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your actual goal, since you started out talking about DLNA. Don't you just want to get multichannel audio from the HTPC (the iMac) into the Marantz?  If so, the answer is HDMI, via an adapter like I mentioned above.

[HaWi]

I don't understand that statement, since HDMI is digital. So I have no idea what you mean by "but only analog and straight to the speakers".

Sorry, I got confused by the statement in the SR7007 manual (see attached). I guess what it means is that the signal coming through AUX1 is converted straight to analog without being able to further attach any changes (such as different replay modes)

Error from what? I'm sure the error message doesn't actually say that. If you'd like to post a screenshot, or type in the error message verbatim, I will try to interpret.
Very likely.  "Core Audio" is just Apple's name for the audio processing layer in their OS.  Read this:
https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/CoreAudioOverview/WhatisCoreAudio/WhatisCoreAudio.html

Again, my fault, I hadn't set up the audio output on the MacBook correctly (currently, I cannot find the setting in MC where I could choose to output PCM, either 16 or 24 bit, maybe a 0.61 issue?). Also, I did now set up 8ch/24bit/192kHz output in the MIDI setup. Also, I missed that I had to re-assign the HDMI inputs on the AVR. It's working now for Dolby Digital (AC3). For some reason, DSP studio seems to have a lot fewer options now.

There is no deficiency in Core Audio itself (aside from those aforementioned issues with the M1 Mac Mini) that will prevent you from sending audio to your AVR.

Your Marantz has HDMI inputs. It understands all the normal HDMI audio formats, like the multichannel PCM that MC prefers to send.

Your iMac lacks an HDMI output, right? It's really as simple as that, isn't it?

So, if you don't want to replace the iMac, you need to give it a working HDMI port.  Since your iMac DOES have USB-A and USB-C/Thunderbolt ports (it does, right?) then you need an HDMI adapter that will work with your iMac. Your iMac is within an HDMI cable's reach of the Marantz, isn't it?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your actual goal, since you started out talking about DLNA. Don't you just want to get multichannel audio from the HTPC (the iMac) into the Marantz?  If so, the answer is HDMI, via an adapter like I mentioned above.

Yes, you are right, originally I thought I could do it via DLNA which turned out not to be possible (DLNA seems to be 2ch only). Now all I really need, as you correctly stated, is HDMI out from the iMac (I might replace that with a dedicated Mac Mini when they allow mch output)
I have ordered a converter but I am not sure that is going to work as my aged iMac only has Thunderbolt2 and all I could find was Displayport>HDMI converters. They say they're Thunderbolt2 compatible but I am skeptical.
Thanks again for all your help, I really appreciate it.

[wer]

I thought iMacs had USB connections as well.  What's the model number?

This adapter, that I linked to before, should work with a Thunderbolt connector:  https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-Adapter-Black/dp/B00DRK2ZIK

Regarding the Aux/Analog issue, you're getting your connectors confused.

Your Marantz has TWO connections named Aux.  One on the front (Aux1 which is analog) and one on the back (Aux2, which is HDMI).  That note in your manual is for Aux1.  If you plugged your HDMI cable into an Aux port, it was Aux2 on the back.

In fact, your Marantz duplicates the name for ALL its connections: there are 2 connections for each name (like DVD).  One is HDMI (digital) and one is RCA (analog).

Regardless of what you ever may think you read in your manual, HDMI is digital, and it is impossible for you to physically plug an HDMI cable into an analog connection.  So if you are using HDMI, you are using digital, not analog. Period.

I'd still like to hear the detail on that "not processed enough" error you said you were getting.

[HaWi]

I thought iMacs had USB connections as well.  What's the model number?

Yes my iMac does have USB 2 and 3 plugs. It's an iMac Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015; 4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7; MD Radeon R9 M395X 4 GB

This adapter, that I linked to before, should work with a Thunderbolt connector:  https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-Adapter-Black/dp/B00DRK2ZIK

I hope so, I ordered one.

Regarding the Aux/Analog issue, you're getting your connectors confused.

Your Marantz has TWO connections named Aux.  One on the front (Aux1 which is analog) and one on the back (Aux2, which is HDMI).  That note in your manual is for Aux1.  If you plugged your HDMI cable into an Aux port, it was Aux2 on the back.

Well, actually, the SR7007 AUX1 in the front is an HDMI plug (and whatever goes in there gets converted straight to analog. That's how I interpret the manual now). The AUX2 in the back needed to be manually assigned to HDMI in the AVR setup. Now the AUX2 connection works and accepts the Dolby Digital input from the MacBook and plays mch tracks. Previously, I was able to select PCM16 or 24 bit and LPCM 16 or 24 bit in DSP studio but these options don't exist anymore (not sure why. I reverted to .0.59 and the are gone there too). Only Dolby Digital and various DSD formats remain.

In fact, your Marantz duplicates the name for ALL its connections: there are 2 connections for each name (like DVD).  One is HDMI (digital) and one is RCA (analog).

Regardless of what you ever may think you read in your manual, HDMI is digital, and it is impossible for you to physically plug an HDMI cable into an analog connection.  So if you are using HDMI, you are using digital, not analog. Period.

I'd still like to hear the detail on that "not processed enough" error you said you were getting.

It was something like "Core Audio cannot convert the signal ... because the hardware is not capable ..."  I haven't been able to reproduce it since as I was going through a lot of different settings.  I believe this happened because I didn't select the HDMI for output but rather, the internal speakers were selected.

Thank you, wer

[wer]

It's hard to tell, the manual is not very good, and there doesn't seem to be a useful diagram of the front; all the panel diagrams are very low-res; had to look at the promo photographs to be able to read the labels.  But if that's what they're doing with an HDMI port, it's a stupid useless thing to do. I'm surprised. But if they crippled the front connector, just don't use it.  Any of the other HDMI connectors should work properly I would think.

There are USB versions of HDMI adapters too; the question is did the new MacOS versions break them.

[HaWi]

It's hard to tell, the manual is not very good, and there doesn't seem to be a useful diagram of the front; all the panel diagrams are very low-res; had to look at the promo photographs to be able to read the labels.  But if that's what they're doing with an HDMI port, it's a stupid useless thing to do. I'm surprised. But if they crippled the front connector, just don't use it.  Any of the other HDMI connectors should work properly I would think.

Yeah, I have a pretty good pdf version of the manual that came on a CD with the AVR. It does seem like a waste of a perfectly good HDMI input.

There are USB versions of HDMI adapters too; the question is did the new MacOS versions break them.

I was just looking up some. It's a bit confusing because some mention they will not work with MacOS. I found one that states MacOS compatibility
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-External-Monitor-Graphics-Adapter/dp/B00OD37KHG
but also says stereo audio, and I definitely want mch. I might give it a try and RMA it if it doesn't do mch.

[wer]

There's multiple versions of that one, the "Standard" version says it does 5.1.  That's one of the ones I think I linked to before.

[HaWi]

There's multiple versions of that one, the "Standard" version says it does 5.1.  That's one of the ones I think I linked to before.

Great, thanks, that's the one I am getting

[wer]

So you have two coming right? Because you said you ordered the thunderbolt one.  It'll be interesting to see if any of them work.

[HaWi]

So you have two coming right? Because you said you ordered the thunderbolt one.  It'll be interesting to see if any of them work.

I only ordered this one
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-Adapter-Black/dp/B00DRK2ZIK
so far.
Since I clearly have too much time on my hands, I also ordered a RPi4 kit. While I am planning to use this one mainly as a PiHole and possibly VPN server, I might give MC a spin on it as well. It's got 2 HDMI outputs and I read that it can server mch Audio via MC.

[bob]

Following this thread carefully as well.
I've been trying to see if there is anything I can do to get the M1 Mac mini to do multichannel HDMI (even at 48k only).
Not having much luck.

[HaWi]

Following this thread carefully as well.
I've been trying to see if there is anything I can do to get the M1 Mac mini to do multichannel HDMI (even at 48k only).
Not having much luck.

It must be related to the hardware. On my old MacBook Pro with MacOS 11.2, I can get mch output via HDMI just fine, up to 192kHz.

[HaWi]

Just got my TB2 > HDMI converter and it works beautifully. I can now set the AudioMidi Setup to 8 channels/24bit/192kHz and the Marantz SR-7007 receives all the channels I send. Mostly still 2 but sometimes 5, sometimes 6 based on source. I'm glad not to have to go through DLNA anymore.
I got my RPi4 today so will give it a go with MC27, that would be awesome, because it should be always-on.

[wer]

I'm glad you're all sorted out.

[HaWi]

Thank you wer,
I couldn't have done it without you. You taught me a lot and I really appreciate that.