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[robland]

(JRiver 25 64-bit on Win10)

Previously, I've successfully used both DVD Audio Extractor and DVD Audio Explorer to rip hi-res 24/96 audio files from DVD-A discs. Now, I'm trying to do something similar with a DVD video disc (Genesis Abacab).

I've read the Convert Format wiki topic (https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Convert_Format) and this thread (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=113597.0).

However, when I view the DVD file in JRiver > right-click > Library Tools > Convert Format > select Convert Video to Audio, the experience is very different from the 3rd-party tools I've used for DVD-A.

I expected to see a list of separate files (.iso and what not), then open one, and then see a list of audio files (some for surround sound, some for stereo 24/96), and then select files to convert. Instead, JRiver seems only to have the option to convert the entire DVD to a single monolithic audio file, not separate tracks.

Am I doing this right? Does JRiver have only the option to convert one monolithic file, without the ability to have separate tracks plus select which audio format you want (surround or stereo)?

Also, the thread linked to above mentions using MakeMKV for this job (https://www.makemkv.com/). Anyone happen to know if that supports ripping individual hi-res tracks from DVD to FLAC?

[robland]

To be clear, I've tried following the steps here to rip an individual track: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,80684.msg549254.html#msg549254

"If a video has multiple audio tracks, the converter will use the audio track currently selected for playback.  So to change the track, play, select the track you want, then stop.  After that, conversion will use the newly selected audio track."

When I play the DVD, I select the 24/96 stereo tracks, and then play an individual track, but every time I get the monolithic audio conversion -- a whopper 48-minute file for the whole disc...

[wer]

I would use MakeMKV and MKVtoolnixGUI to do this. It's quite easy, and you have complete control over what you're doing.

Using MakeMKV, you can rip all or just selected titles from the disc to one or several MKV files.

Then using mkvtoolnix or MKVtoolnixGUI, you can pick and extract whichever audio tracks you like.

Note that these tools are lossless: your ripped and extracted tracks will contain the original data with its original encoding. If an audio track is on the disc as PCM, it will still be PCM. If it is on the disc as AC3, it will be the exact same AC3 in the extracted audio file.  You can then convert it with some other tool, like MC, if desired.

[robland]

Okay thanks for confirming. Do you happen to have a download link for MKVtoolnixGUI? I don't see an obvious choice in search.

This may seem like an archaic scenario, but it's crazy how some artists released hi-res on DVD only. For example, the Talking Heads released all their albums on CD/DVD-A hybrid discs back around 2005, and here we are in 2021 and those DVDs are still the only way to obtain hi-res versions of many/most of their albums. And used copies of this double-disc CD/DVD Abacab album sell for hundreds of dollars... because it sounds freakin' amazing and isn't available on any hi-res download site. Crazy.

[wer]

It's all part of the same download package, at the main download site, first search result.  mkvtoolnix is the command line package, and MKVtoolnixGUI drives the command line utils from a GUI.

[syndromeofadown]

Previously, I've successfully used both DVD Audio Extractor and DVD Audio Explorer to rip hi-res 24/96 audio files from DVD-A discs. Now, I'm trying to do something similar with a DVD video disc (Genesis Abacab).

DVD Audio Extractor isn't limited to dvd audio, it works on dvd's and bluray's too. Just use it.

[robland]

I'd love to use DVD Audio Extractor, it's simple and easy, but my free trial expired and, well, I'm cheap. :/

So for my Talking Heads DVD-A discs, I'm using free DVD Audio Explorer to rip MLPs from DVD-A, and then using free Fre:ac audio converter to decode files from MLP and tag/encode them to FLAC.

[robland]

But for this DVD video Abacab disc, I'm a bit stymied. Looking at the contents in MakeMKV (attached), the audio tracks are present in

DTS Surround 5.1
DD Surround 5.1

but not in 24/96 stereo, which is a first for me.

Any advice on which to rip, DTS or DD? And then does that simply play in jriver, or do I need to convert to stereo somehow?

[wer]

It's common for DVDs to not have PCM tracks.

I'd rip the DTS; they usually sound better.  Both are lossy though, so you can rip both and trust your own ears to decide.

I would convert once to FLAC and be done with it.

Try playing it as is in MC; if it doesn't work, you can always convert it to PCM/FLAC with ffmpeg, or you can use the FLAC profile on the advanced tab of MakeMKV to convert to FLAC during the rip.  Google will give you how-to info on converting audio with ffmpeg or modifying MakeMKV profiles if you want to do something advanced.

[robland]

Okay, so I've

1) used MakeMKV to rip DD audio (all 9 tracks) to one big .mkv file (I"ll try DTS too)
2) downloaded MKVtoolnixGUI and opened .mkv file in it
3) on Input tab, select audio track and chapters
4) on Output tab, select Split mode = Before chapters and Chapter numbers = all (this took awhile to figure out, it's an intimidating tool the first time)
5) now I have 9 .mka files that play in JRiver

I was about to convert them to FLAC, but Fre:ac threw a message saying I'm converting from lossy to lossless, am I sure I want to proceed?

Have I done this right? So the AC3 files in the .mkv are lossless, a bit-perfect copy of what's on the DVD, but the .mka files that MKVtoolnixGUI  derives from the AC3 are not? Hmmm.

I'm wondering if the AC3 can simply be chopped into shorter AC3 files by chapter, then converted from AC3 > FLAC? So it's lossless all the way through?

Fumbling my way...

[wer]

So the AC3 files in the .mkv are lossless, a bit-perfect copy of what's on the DVD, but the .mka files that MKVtoolnixGUI  derives from the AC3 are not?

The ripped files are perfect copies of lossy copies. The AC3 or DTS audio that is actually on the disc was encoded using a lossy encoder from PCM.  DTS and AC3 are lossy, but that information was lost at mastering and you can't get it back.  Ignore that warning. You lose nothing more by converting to FLAC, and you gain nothing except compatibility and ease of tagging. 

[robland]

Okay, I understand that. I don't care about anything in the chain prior to me ripping the disc. I was suspicious of the steps going from .mkv > ac3 > .mka > flac, but if you say the ripped files are "perfect copies" that's good enough for me!

My library now has three versions of Abacab -- CD, DD, and DTS. The DTS has the most data but at first listen, it's hard to pick a clear winner.

The first time I played the DD flac, I got the attached prompt about playing back 6-channel as 2-channel -- how does that work? On a stereo system, does MC use DSP to blend all 6 channels into 2? Or are 4 simply not used?

Thanks for all the help, I'm kinda amazed this all worked.

[robland]

Also, it's a bit of a letdown to realize at the end that I did all this work for 16/48 files!

I guess the DVD sounds so good b/c of all the extra channel info, not bit depth/sample rate...

[wer]

Yes, you've hit exactly on the reason it sounds attractive.  It's the mix, not the quality of the individual channels.

If you only have two speakers, then you will have to downmix. Of course that makes me wonder why you wanted multichannel files at all.

What MC can output is limited by your output device capabilities.  What MC tries to output is configured in the Output Format module. You can do upmixing or downmixing there. There is also bitstreaming, if you have a multichannel device, like an AVR, but a 2-channel transport like toslink.  Learn about Output Format here:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Output_Format

Have fun...

[robland]

Ya I'm shuffling around some audio gear and so don't have surround now but will again.

Thanks for the help.

[robland]

Actually, one more question about this. When I play the physical DVD, the menu offers me DTS 24/96 or DD alternatives. And sure enough, DTS is supposed to be 24/96 --

https://www.lifewire.com/dts-96-24-1846848

At least, I understand this as meaning 24/96 is actually on the disc, and not that DTS is simply mastered using 24/96...

This is why I was expecting hi-res files at the end. But my DTS rip is 16/96, not 24/96 (attached). Did I go wrong somewhere, or is not possible to rip DTS hi-res files from DVD video?

[robland]

Repeating my steps, the .mka files are 32/96 so maybe I'm losing something when I convert to flac...

[tij]

MakeMKV rips a bit perfect copy. So does MKVToolnix.

The term "rip" can mean different thing in different context. When you rip disc, it can be ripped losskessly or reencorded (which is lossy). When DVD is ripped losslessly its usually refer to as DVD remux ... when DVD us reencorded its usually referred to as DVD rip.

Audio on DVD can be up to 24/192. You can rip DTS to MKV ... then run it through MediaInfo to see its stats.

If MediaInfo is showing 24/96 DTS ... then you must be doing something wrong when converting to flac

If MediaInfo is shiwing 16/96 DTS ... then DVD cover/menud are just plainly lying

EDIT: my mistake ... 192khz is highest quality for DVD Audio ... sound tracks on DVD-Audio is max at 96khz

EDIT2: yours looks like 24/96 ... see "compression" field ... but i would run it through MediaInfo just to be sure (if i recall correctly 32bit audio is not part of DVD standard) ... if MediaInfo indeed shows DTS to be 24/96 ... then some setting for FLAC conversion must be wrong

[robland]

Okay thanks, apparently I need to set bit depth to 24 in fre:ac when I convert .mka to FLAC.

There's no reason I'd want to encode 32-bit to FLAC to match the .mka file, is there?

So to sum up, this process CAN be used to rip hi-res DTS 96/24 from DVD video.

I'm glad I recognized my error before I sold the DVD!

[Mark_Chat]

I'm glad I recognized my error before I sold the DVD!

Note that if you sell the DVD then this whole process becomes piracy and this forum should not give you illegal assistance.

You MUST own the original format in order to have a legitimate backup.
Ripping discs relies on the legal precedent that you are entitled to make a backup copy of discs you own, because it was easy to do so for CD and was a direct digital copy without tampering with any of the media contents.
It became a bit more tricksy when DVD introduced anti-piracy features that specifically had to be circumvented in order to rip the disc.
Ripping became even more tricky to do legally with Blu-ray because multiple anti-piracy measures have to be circumvented and removed from the backup so it becomes a deliberate action to create a copy that no longer retains those security features so not a simple backup, but is piracy.

Either way, Piracy is wrong from any point of reasonable view.
Please support the artists and everyone involved in the industry.

If you want it, then it is worth paying for.
If you can’t afford it then that is life and you should accept that you can’t have it.
I would love a Ferrari but can’t afford one. That doesn’t mean I can steal one.

You are not even using JRiver to perform the theft, only to play the stolen media files, so I’m sure you would have got better advice on a different site.

While I’m here, does anyone have a hacked registration code for JRiver that I could have?
(I joke! I was making a point. I think the software is worth every penny and I have paid for multiple legitimate upgrades over the years.)

[JimH]

Note that if you sell the DVD then this whole process becomes piracy and this forum should not give you illegal assistance.

That's true.

[minogue]

I finally learned something from this forum! lol!

Jim, I thought your comments from years ago in the "is this support?" subject was helpful, just hard to find! The searching was difficult for me, but after reading that thread it is making more sense; Keep the search words to 1 or 2 to start. I found this by putting in the search "converting" in Media Center 27 for Windows.

Just a comment that others might find helpful here. I am cheap, too! But not that cheap! DVD Audio Extractor is a lifetime fee of $38.50. It is very easy to use (if I could figure it out). I am well on my way to extracting the various DVD audio recordings to 24 bit FLAC. All you have to do is trial and error it once or twice. They ask you all the right questions. You just have to learn what they mean. If you read most of this thread, you will be able to. Then, after you convert it, rename the tracks in MC (if that is important to you).

Cheers,
Kyle