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[BigCat]

Hi all!

I just moved to Windows 10 from Windows 7 (long story). I am getting things setup and have a question re: MP3Gain and volume leveling. For years I had MP3Gain (mp3gain-win-1_2_5.exe) installed and simply ran any new mp3's through it before importing them to JRiver. Yes, I would then run JRiver "Analyze Audio", but my understanding is that that just affects the JRiver database, not the files themselves. I want to be able to play these on various systems in general.

My questions:

1) Is this still what we do (using MP3Gain.exe), or is there a better solution now to do a configurable but lossless volume level of media files? JRiver itself? Another 3rd party program? It would be nice to level multiple file formats besides MP3, maybe even do video formats.

2) When I tried to install my old version of MP3Gain that was in use in Windows 7 to my new Windows 10, the installer complained of missing Windows files. I tried to find the current version online, but it was not clear which is the right site/version. What would be the current link to what I want?

Thanks as always!

[JimH]

MC can write tag changes to files if you have it set to do so.

[BigCat]

So I understand that I can save the tags themselves to files, but can MC losslessly volume level a media file in a way that it can be played back in anything without MC with the modified volume?

[JimH]

MC uses Replay Gain:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume_Leveling

When you analyze audio, it can be calculated.  If it's in the file, any player could use the Replay Gain value.

[BigCat]

Thanks for your time, Jim!

What I like about MP3Gain is that it actually losslessly changes the volume of the file. So if I was to later play the file in some music player that doesn't support any kind of volume leveling (something that can't read or use the Replay Gain tags), the sound volumes will still be somewhat leveled. Its not super fine grained, but it works well. It gets the various MP3 files close.

[BigCat]

If I remember correctly, I think MP3Gain is open source. I had always wished the idea was just built into MC.

[BryanC]

If I remember correctly, I think MP3Gain is open source. I had always wished the idea was just built into MC.

It already is. Use the "apply DSP" option when converting audio or syncing to your external device and leveling will be applied to the file.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Convert_Format

[BigCat]

Thanks BryanC!

I have used that feature some in the past. Is that using the same idea as MP3Gain? If I "converted" a file, would it then work with lossless volume leveling in, say, an older mp3 player (that had no volume leveling ability itself) ?

Its kinda hard to explain, but I like the idea of getting audio files close in volume before I import them and start applying Analyze Audio/Replay Gain to them.

[BryanC]

Yes, same idea as MP3Gain.

I'd recommend that you start with an archive (since applying DSP/volume leveling is irreversible) and then use MC's handheld sync to create a subset of the normalized files on your external device (SD card, flash drive, MP3 player, etc). Also make sure to disable the conversion cache or else your new DSP settings will not be applied to the files.

[BigCat]

Thanks for pointing this stuff out. With MP3Gain, the values can be changed/deleted. They are non-permanent.

Is there a way to just have MC apply this MP3Gain-like values to the files - while running Analyze Audio, but before the Replay Gain settings are applied? And hopefully in a way, like MP3Gain, that has the settings be non-permanent?

[BryanC]

MP3Gain uses a trick that's specific to MP3 files (hence the name) to reversibly modify the gain without affecting the rest of the file. MC applies DSP during the conversion process (to the decoded waveform) in a more general manner (supports complex DSP and any format). I don't quite understand your second question but hopefully that previous info helps you to understand the limitations.

[BigCat]

I edited my previous comment for clarity.

Thank you for the clarification about MP3Gain's limitation regarding it's "reversibly modify the gain without affecting the rest of the file" being capable for mp3 only. This has all been pretty informative.

I think for now I will continue running MP3s through MP3Gain before importing them. Now I just need to either try installing MP3Gain via Compatibility Mode or to find a current Windows 10 friendly version.

[Shike]

As someone that used MP3 Gain . . .

I highly advise sticking to replay gain writing to tags.  This is 100% lossless as new gain values are stored at the tag - you can choose to use them based on file gain, album gain, or ignore them entirely and stick to original gain.  They can be removed/changes as you desire.  It's completely lossless and does not require any header tricks.

Most decent music players support replay gain, I highly suggest you read into it and confirm but it's absolutely better than the risk of header issues with MP3 Gain.

[BigCat]

Shike, that is interesting. Have you had header issues using MP3Gain?

[Shike]

The issue I had was pretty simple.  MP3 gain modifies the header directly, then wrote undo information to the tag.  The problem is the field on the tag ended up wiped by software at one point because it was not a proper spec.  This made undo impossible.

Replay gain tells the playback software how to handle the file, and if removed you can simply reanalyze as the file information itself is still stock.  Mp3 gain modifies the header and if the undo in the tag is lost the original gain information is simply gone - undo is no longer possible unless you've manually recorded the gain somewhere (nightmarish undertaking).

[BigCat]

Thanks, Shike, for that clear explanation. Hmmm.

[BryanC]

The solution is to have an unmodified archive, use replaygain whenever possible, and the handheld sync (if you regularly update the library) or convert format tools to apply volume leveling wherever replaygain is unsupported. You don't "gain" (sorry) anything at all by modifying the files directly and there are potentially catastrophic results.

[BigCat]

OK, I will say goodbye to my MP3Gain aspirations going forward. Replay Gain is more granular anyway, and I was having trouble installing MP3Gain.

I do have thousands of MP3s already modified by MP3Gain, and I have not had any problems, so I probably won't try to undo the existing files.

Thanks all! That was interesting!