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[tij]

Vast majority of 3D movies are encoded "with left eye first" ... aka first frame is for left eye ... for these movies subtitles work perfectly

As you can guest for those encoded "with right eye first" ... subtitles dont work ... the feeling i get as if video is playing correctly "right eye first" but subtitles still get played  "with left eye first" ... looking at subtitles is painful in these cases ... if get focus on picture then subtitles are unreadable ... if get focus on subtitles (very hard for me to do unless pause video), then video is unwatchable

Currently I know Life of Pi and Bait are "with right eye first"

I dont really know which part of MC does this ... my understanding subtitles are rendered by MC ... in ROHQ video is rendered by MadVR

If MadVR is causing this ... i guess not much can be done

But if MC is doing this ... can this be look at please?

EDIT: If some ppl recall ... I suggested ppl to use Top/Bottom 3D for 4K LG TVs as there are no quality loss ... only annoying part was hitting 3D button on remote controller to get 3D working
... well if you still have 2016 LG OLED ... better alternative is to use "Line Alternative" then no need remote to start 3D

keep enjoying 3D while it still last

[Hendrik]

The 3D-ness of subtitles is handled by madVR, MC just deals with 2D subtitles.

[tij]

The 3D-ness of subtitles is handled by madVR, MC just deals with 2D subtitles.

Thanks for quick response ... guess i try Doom9 forum ... not keeping my hopes high though

EDIT: Unless JRiver renderer implements 3D

[tij]

The 3D-ness of subtitles is handled by madVR, MC just deals with 2D subtitles.

I posted question in Doom9 forum ... however, i highly doubt madVR will get updated even if it is confirmed as a bug.

Unfortunayely, MadVR is the only solution for 3D playback on MC

I was able to reproduce this problem on MPC HC running MadVR with other subtitle renderers. Which pretty much point to MadVR. Another sign it is madVR, MadVR OSD exhibit same behaviour.

My understanding ... while MadVR is respinsible for "3d-ness" of subtitles ... it does not actually render them ... rather it ask Dshow subtitle renderer to do so with horizontal offset.

Is it possible for MC to detect when 3D is "right eye first" ... then when madVR request subtitle to be rendered with offest : reverse that offset (aka madVR request offsetX +5 ... subtitle renderer do it with offsetX -5)

Maybe provide option to do this?

 

[Hendrik]

That's not how the subtitle rendering works, no. madVR is just handed a single 2D image, and it applies the offset for one eye itself.

[tij]

Thats not how the subtitle rendering works, no. madVR is just handed a single 2D image, and it applies the offset for one eye itself.

Darn ... no way to fix it then outside MadVR

Thanx for clarifying it, Hendik

[TheShoe]

Hendrik -

We know 3D is a niche experience at this point (content is still released in 3D, but almost exclusively in Europe).  is it difficult to add to JRVR?  Even if well down on your roadmap/backlog, is there a possibility?

Thanks

[JimH]

3D support is very unlikely.

You should still be able to get it by using madVR.

[Ekpen]

3D support is very unlikely.

Hello:

You once wrote a few days to me in my post objecting to 3D: I had no energy in replying, but as of now, I am going to summon all my strength to reply you.

Not too long ago, I knew a software developer who had a broad vision to migrate from Windows and this vision made him empower his developer to port Windows MC DirectX/Madvr to other Os'es.
These  other platforms are Mac IOS and various Linux Distros. Your effort gave me the "WILL" to dump Windows, and since then Ubuntu has been my daily Driver.... I thank YOU.
(Note: Around 1992, I started playnig with Linux.. Yadrasil and later Coherent.), but I was not serious jumping to Unix or Linux.

Of Course, these new platforms are compatible with Opengl and Vulkan, Within these , there is a 3D compatibility.
Of recent, while probing in to Nvidia drivers, I reread Nvidia has not abandoned 3D. It is still there even improved, and  the X-org or X11 profile, 3D can be enabled. It made it possible for 3D to be sent a a non 3D capable displays with the Checkerboard type.
Can we inject a dose of "Empathy" ?
Put your self in a situation where you have about 168 3D titles, and the software you have been supporting over 19 years will suddenly disappoint you by not making  or bringing back a feature.
This feature --3D code has already been available in a prior version, now it will not be converted.
I hope because you hate 3D, you have not flushed the 3D code down the drain !!!.
You are not writing the 3D code from scratch.
You already have the code.
Nvidia drivers support 3D better now than before, though I do not know if Intel and AMD gpus do support 3d..
Please RETHINK ths feature, when Mr. "H", and Mr. "B" are less busy, empower them to migrate the Windows 3D code to other MC platforms... Afterwards "EXOPLAYER" will still be the player of choice to do the play back.             
This is not the time to abandon 3D.
Plex plays 3D
Kodi plays 3D
VLC plays 3D.
According to you, the JRVR will be a video engine that is robust.  Why will you not include 3D ?
This is a hobby  that uses your software to playback media. It should be designed to take of video playback,

3D is not "DEAD"

Thanks.
George Omoregie.

[Hendrik]

Please don't hijack threads.

We don't have any plans to work on 3D with JRVR.

[JimH]

Doesn't madVR work for you when you need 3D? 

[Ekpen]

Please don't hijack threads.

We don't have any plans to work on 3D with JRVR.

Hello:
The topic here is 3D.
I am not hijacking this thread.
What I wrote here is relevant to the topic being discussed at the moment.
Thanks
George Omoregie.

[tij]

Nvidia drivers support 3D better now than before, though I do not know if Intel and AMD gpus do support 3d..

Actually, Nvidia dumped support for 3D in their drivers years ago (you can still output as SBS or OU) ... heard Intel and AMD still support frame pack 3D but I cannot confirm it

Plex plays 3D
Kodi plays 3D
VLC plays 3D.

All of those use MadVR ... as does JRiver (EDIT: except Plex ... which require player/TV to natively support frame-pack 3D in format you are playing ... eg. if 3D is in framepack MKV and you playing it directly to TV ... then TV must support framepack MKV, which not many do)

3D is not "DEAD"

As much as I support 3D ... its pretty much dead for main consumers ... only niche market for 3D is projectors ... and few lucky bastards with 2016 LG OLED

It might come back with Avatar 2 ... but I would not hold my breath

Doesn't madVR work for you when you need 3D? 

It does ... except for subtitles for frame pack 3D "with right eye first" ... thankfully there are not that many of them ... and only few of those really need subtitles (eg Life of Pi has forced subtitles for Indian spoken language)

Hello:
The topic here is 3D.
I am not hijacking this thread.
What I wrote here is relevant to the topic being discussed at the moment.
Thanks
George Omoregie.

This thread was reporting a bug on playback of subtitles for 3D movies "with right eye first" encoding

So what you are posted is a bit off topic (though I also would like 3D to be implemented in JRVR ... maybe as SBS and OU first ... and framepack later)

[tij]

No response from Doom9 forum ... cannot report bug on MadVR site as my registration email never arrived ... couple with fact that only bug fixes are done on beta releases which have expiration time ... there is almost no chance this gonna be fixed on MadVR side (i really do hope I am wrong)

To summarize my finding ... MadVR renders subtitles and OSD incorrectly for frame pack encoded 3D videos that are "with right eye first".

To be more precise ... while video is correctly rendered for each eye ... subtitles and OSD are rendered for wrong eyes (aka subtitles/OSD meant to be seen by right eye is rendered for left eye ... and vice versa)

MadVR assigns depth of subtitles in real time ... such that subtitles are closest to watcher (furthest away from TV) to preserve depth perception ... when these gets assign to wrong eye ... subtitles are put "inside TV" ... and if something overlapping subtitles are displayed "outside TV", your eye cannot focus on subtitle resulting in total mess (and possible headache if watch for too long)

This happens in all 3D modes of MadVR ... SBS, OU, interlaced, frame pack

This unfortunately cannot be fixed by JRiver ... unless they stop relying on MadVR for 3D, which is a completely different topic

If you want to reproduce this ... i can confirm that following 3D titles are "with right eye first"  (remember subtitles must overlap with object that "pop out" of screen ... good example - Life of Pi at around 13min ... if you cannot find when subtitles are problem in below movies, let me know the title of the movie and i will find the troubled spot)

Edge of Tomorrow
Ice Age Collision Course
Ice Age Continental Drift
Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs
Rio 2
The Boss Baby
The Hobbit The Desolation of Smaug
Prometheus
The Darkest Hour
The Hobbit An Unexpected Journey
Epic
Rio
The Three Musketeers
Life of Pi
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
Ghostbusters
Oz the Great and Powerful
The Jungle Book
Gullivers Travels
Gemini Man
Bait

[zybex]

Not sure if TSMuxer of MakeMKV can do it, but I think it's relatively simple to reencode the video to toggle the Left/Right primary channel. The 3D MVC format has one base video stream for the left or right eye, and the second eye is encoded just as offsets relative to the first stream. A "left-eye first" uses positive offsets, and a "right-eye first" uses negative offsets (or perhaps vice versa, not sure). So the difference from those 2 encodings is just the plus or minus signal on the offsets. Perhaps there are tools out there to do this switching/reencoding.

Of course, Hendrik might now shoot down this theory

Not sure what happens if the container has the wrong flag specified and the software doesn't detect the primary eye correctly... perhaps that's just what is happening here?

[Hendrik]

Re-encoding while swapping the eyes could work, but i'm not aware of any 3D MVC encoders available, as you would need to actually change the video, not just the container. You could encode it into SBS, but thats not really the same experience.
If the primary eye would be wrong for the video, it would entirely be unwatcheable, similar to how the subtitles behave - instead of just having that problem with the subtitles.

Technically LAV Video could swap the eyes after decoding and just always pretend its always left-first, but then we would have to somehow prevent madVR from reading the eye order, so it doesn't get it wrong, its all sorts of messy.

[tij]

Not sure what happens if the container has the wrong flag specified and the software doesn't detect the primary eye correctly... perhaps that's just what is happening here?

Only container supporting 3D frame pack is MKV which contain flag for which eye is first ... you can change that flag with MKVToolnix (require remuxing) ... you can also override flag value in MadVR (for cases where flag was set wrong and you are too lazy to remux)

But in this case flags are set correct ... MadVR is playing video correct (as Hendrick mention when you play incorrectly ... video is unwatchable) ... MadVR is just doing subtitles and OSD wrong for "right eye first"

Technically LAV Video could swap the eyes after decoding and just always pretend its always left-first, but then we would have to somehow prevent madVR from reading the eye order, so it doesn't get it wrong, its all sorts of messy.

Now THAT is good walkaround ... which will set MC apart from others

Here are screenshot of what I am talking about:

1. for left eye screenshot ... see how subtitles on top is offset to the right of subtitle on bottom ... this make subtitle "come out of screen"

2. for right eye screenshot ... subtitles on top is offset to the LEFT of subtitle on bottom ... this make subtitle "go in the screen" ... with all other things combine - cannot focus on subtitles

I included a 3rd screenshot of that "right eye screenshot" ... but with text overplayed correctly ... if you have 3D display/projector that support Over/Under ... you can make those screenshot fullscreen, then switch display to 3D Over/Under and you will see what i meant

[tij]

Technically LAV Video could swap the eyes after decoding and just always pretend its always left-first, but then we would have to somehow prevent madVR from reading the eye order, so it doesn't get it wrong, its all sorts of messy.

I dont think MadVR can determine which eye is first ... as it seems to always rely on MKV flag (not sure how it determines from ISO or BDMV folders) and never overides it unless explicitely told to do so (you cannot specify which eye is first in MadVR menu ... you can only choose to swap eyes)