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[Shasta Mike]

MC has various functionality that can be used to sync libraries on different computers. 

My use-case is I have an Id where I play and rate songs, create and modify playlists, and update tag information.   Then I have a PC where I rip music, dl music, and transfer that music to the Id.  So, music transfers to the Id from the PC.  But, then I want the MC libraries on both the Id and PC to remain identical.  That means that when I rate a song on the Id, or update the genre, add/delete songs from a playlist, or create a new playlist, I want to get that info back to the PC. 

What is the best way to do this taking into account different folder structures on the PC and Id?   I'm open to different ideas.  Since I just got the Id and am in the beginning of this, I have some flexibility (I think).  I have transferred all the music files over to the Id, exported playlists created over the last few years from the PC, imported some of them on the Id (they seemed to work fine), and am learning how to do things inside the Id. MC works almost the same in the Id though for instance, importing Playlists was tedious having to do it one-by-one and I have not had time to do this for the 50 or so playlists.   

Some kind of method that could get all the library metadata (tags, playlists, playlist structure, ratings, cover art, etc) in one transaction would be great.  Right now, having to do this in a series of different procedures works but is very tedious and I'm thinking someone else has figured out a slick way to accomplish this.   

[Shasta Mike]

Bumping this - I am wondering why I cannot get any advice.  Is it not clear?  Am I asking for the impossible?  Is it too obvious?  I don't know - but I really need some help with getting playlists from one device to another.  Thanks.

[JimH]

The best way might be to use Library Server on the Id and use your second machine as a client when you want to play files.

The wiki has a topic on Media Network and another on Library Server.

[dtc]

The best way might be to use Library Server on the Id and use your second machine as a client when you want to play files.

The wiki has a topic on Media Network and on Library Server.

Since he is ripping on the second machine and you cannot rip from a client it might make more sense to have the main library on the second machine.  The tags changes from the ID can be written back to the second machine by turning on Authentication.

[Shasta Mike]

The best way might be to use Library Server on the Id and use your second machine as a client when you want to play files.

The wiki has a topic on Media Network and on Library Server.

  I looked on the Wiki for those entries and don't see anything definitive to my use-case.  How would your suggestion above move song ratings and playlist updates from the Id to the PC?  I also looked for info on the Wiki regarding Playlists and Ratings and couldn't find anything.  That is the most important metadata for me to move from the Library on the Id to the PC and possibly even vice versa.  I assumed that song ratings and playlists are part of the library but this may be a false assumption on my part.   

Since he is ripping on the second machine and you cannot rip from a client it might make more sense to have the main library on the second machine.  The tags changes from the ID can be written back to the second machine by turning on Authentication.

I looked for Wiki info on Authentication and also looked for a flag setting in Sync Library for this and didn't see it.  Can you explain what Authentication is and how to use? 

[badger]

I believe the recommendations you see here are based using MC's Media Network with one set of files/tracks... and one Library.  It appears you are dealing with two sets of files... which really isn't the way most folks use MC.  Maybe I'm missunderstanding  what you mean by "transfer" the music to the Id.

[dtc]

The library servers is a client - server setup. You store the files and the main library on one system (server). You add new albums/tracks to that library through ripping or downloading as you do now. You do not try to maintain the same library on the ID. On the server system you set up Media Sharing by turning on Use Media Network in Options - Media Network. When you do that you will see an Access Key. You also need to turn on Authenication and give a password.

From the ID you access the library on the second system through the client/server arrangement as described in the Wiki article.  Basically, on the ID, you right click on Playing From and enter the  Access Key and the password.  The ID will then connect to the server and will show exactly the same information as the second system.  You can change tags from the ID and if you have Authenication turned on on the server, then the changes from the ID will be written to the library on the server.

Give it a try. It takes a few steps but once set up it is very easy to use.

[JimH]

Sync is explained here:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Server_Sync

[Shasta Mike]

I believe the recommendations you see here are based using MC's Media Network with one set of files/tracks... and one Library.  It appears you are dealing with two sets of files... which really isn't the way most folks use MC.  Maybe I'm missunderstanding  what you mean by "transfer" the music to the Id.

I have been using a PC for about 5 years with MC streaming to an old Sony SNP N200 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/832788-REG/Sony_SMPN200_smart_Streaming_Player.html and then audio cable outputs to a Class D Preamp/Amp setup.  I am trying to accomplish two things with the Id.  Play music files directly from the Id to my Preamp/Amp (home wifi streaming can be glitchy) and then between the PC and Id have a complete backup of all music and MC playlists, ratings, libraries, etc.   So, I have literally transferred around 500 gb of FLAC files from the PC to the Id.  Now, I am trying to get the previously created (last 5 years) PC playlists and song ratings from the PC to the Id.

Then I want to use the Id to play music, rate music, create playlists, and modify playlists as part of curating my music collection.  And, then I want the new Id music ratings and playlists from now on  to be backed up on the PC MC instance. 

Hopefully that explains what I am doing.  If there is a better way to accomplish what I am doing let me know.  Thanks! 

[Shasta Mike]

The library servers is a client - server setup. You store the files and the main library on one system (server). You add new albums/tracks to that library through ripping or downloading as you do now. You do not try to maintain the same library on the ID. On the server system you set up Media Sharing by turning on Use Media Network in Options - Media Network. When you do that you will see an Access Key. You also need to turn on Authenication and give a password.

From the ID you access the library on the second system through the client/server arrangement as described in the Wiki article.  Basically, on the ID, you right click on Playing From and enter the  Access Key and the password.  The ID will then connect to the server and will show exactly the same information as the second system.  You can change tags from the ID and if you have Authenication turned on on the server, then the changes from the ID will be written to the library on the server.

Give it a try. It takes a few steps but once set up it is very easy to use.

  This sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.  I'll give it try.  thx

[badger]

  This sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.  I'll give it try.  thx

Yes.. give Media Network a try.  I think this will accomplish exactly what you want to do.  MC will always create a backup of playlists, ratings, libraries, etc.  Not necessary to try and "mirror" a 2nd copy of everything.   Now if the Id and PC are not wired to your home LAN...  and your wireless is that "glitchy" or undependable...  you may need to fix that.

[Shasta Mike]

Yes.. give Media Network a try.  I think this will accomplish exactly what you want to do.  MC will always create a backup of playlists, ratings, libraries, etc.  Not necessary to try and "mirror" a 2nd copy of everything.   Now if the Id and PC are not wired to your home LAN...  and your wireless is that "glitchy" or undependable...  you may need to fix that.

  I didn't see this in the Wiki - when there is a difference between the two libraries, which one rules?  Can MC see which change is the latest and that one rules?  I am trying to understand how when I change a song rating in the Id and delete a song from a playlist, how does MC decide that change is populated over to the PC?  And, then how does it decide not to revert a change made on a device because it is different?  You understand what I am asking? 

[JimH]

Sync is explained here:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Server_Sync

[dtc]

MC on the Id is either connected to the local library on the Id or to the library on the server, through Media server.  In the tree on the left, it will tell you Playing from Main Library or Playing from XXXX where xxxx is the name of the server system. Most changes made on the Id will only go to the library that you are connected to. So, if MC is using the server library, the changes will go there. In that case, none of the changes will go to the library on the ID. Basically in the client-server mode the information is stored only in the library on the server.

As described in the Wiki article there are some things that are not synced.

View customization (columns, sorting, adding / removing views)
Options changes (each client maintains its own options)

Those specific things are stored in the local library on the Id.  That way you can maintain different views on the client and other the server.  Everything else is stored on the server system when the Id is connected to it.

This client-server setup uses only the one library on the server for almost all the information. If you want to copy that information to a local library on the Id, then there are different methods for doing that. But there is no reason to do that if you are always connecting the Id to the server library.

The Wiki article is short and concise. Read it carefully and you should be good to go.

[Shasta Mike]

MC on the Id is either connected to the local library on the Id or to the library on the server, through Media server.  In the tree on the left, it will tell you Playing from Main Library or Playing from XXXX where xxxx is the name of the server system. Most changes made on the Id will only go to the library that you are connected to. So, if MC is using the server library, the changes will go there. In that case, none of the changes will go to the library on the ID. Basically in the client-server mode the information is stored only in the library on the server.

As described in the Wiki article there are some things that are not synced.

View customization (columns, sorting, adding / removing views)
Options changes (each client maintains its own options)

Those specific things are stored in the local library on the Id.  That way you can maintain different views on the client and other the server.  Everything else is stored on the server system when the Id is connected to it.

This client-server setup uses only the one library on the server for almost all the information. If you want to copy that information to a local library on the Id, then there are different methods for doing that. But there is no reason to do that if you are always connecting the Id to the server library.

The Wiki article is short and concise. Read it carefully and you should be good to go.

  Your explanation is helping me a lot.  I am probably a more visual person and the Wiki articles being all verbiage and not diagrams or videos make it hard for me.  I confess that while I have worked in tech manufacturing (engineering and management levels) that made components (HDD) for decades and used these systems I have only rudimentary knowledge of servers, clients and renderers and get lost in the nuances and vocabulary of what that means on my home LAN when using a laptop, two PC's, the Id and running MC on three of those. 

I am sure the Wiki explains it all but when reading it probably 80% is not landing in my brain due to the way I learn.  JRiver is a small company with limited resources - I get that.  And, I love the product capabilities.  The problem is it assumes a knowledge of systems that a large percentage of the public does not possess and the available resources for people like me require us to read something five different ways to comprehend.  I am not being deliberately knuckle-headed - it is actually embarrassing on one level.  A long-winded explanation of why I am thankful for the discourse and why it is needed. 

[Shasta Mike]

If you want to copy that information to a local library on the Id, then there are different methods for doing that.

This is what I have been trying to do.  What is the methodology to accomplish this?   

And, back to the previous issues discussed and this requirement from the Wiki https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Server Both computers must have the same version and build of Media Center.  For some reason MC29 does not work on the Id yet (it is planned according to Jim) and so MC28 is installed.  That has to be factored into how the system is set up.  This kind of stuff is what sort of stops me in my tracks all the time when trying to figure out how to set up my system.   

[badger]

This is what I have been trying to do.  What is the methodology to accomplish this?   

Your use case appears to be such a classic scenario for Media Network that I think trying to create duplicate libraries would be so much more difficult (and kludgy), that you will be even more frustrated.... especially with two different versions of MC.  Have you tried Media Network yet?  I'm sure you'll like it.  You can rate songs, create playlists, add or delete tracks on playlists, delete playlists, etc on either the PC or the ID without concern for keeping two libraries in sync (because you will only be using ONE library, and one database of songs). I have my server as MC29.. and two clients on MC28 and this works fine.  Anyway..... let's set it up..

STEP 1 - On the PC...  Tools + Options + Media Network.  Check "Use media network to share...    Write down your new Access Key.  Check "Authentication".  Create a user name and password... and write those down.  Click "OK"

STEP 2 - On the Id...   Click "Playing Now" (upper left).  Click on "Playing from main library".  Click "add library" middle of screen.  This is where you add the library from the PC.  Give it a name (Like "Main Library" or "Master Library" or whatever).  Now type in the Access Key you wrote down earlier (case sensitive).  Now click "OK".  Now login with the user name and password you wrote down earlier.

STEP 3 - On the Id...  Under "Playing Now" click on the new library you just added  (although it should default to that).

Now you can verify all your playlists (from the PC) show on the Id.  Rate some songs... delete some tracks from a playlist or two.  And then go back to the PC and verify that your changes have updated the library.

[dtc]

In the past, you needed to match the client and server versions very closely. That has been greatly relaxed over time.  I would give the combination of 28 on the Id and 29 on the server a try and see if it works.  You can do a library backup first on both the Id and the server just in case there is any problem.

[Shasta Mike]

Your use case appears to be such a classic scenario for Media Network that I think trying to create duplicate libraries would be so much more difficult (and kludgy), that you will be even more frustrated.... especially with two different versions of MC.  Have you tried Media Network yet?  I'm sure you'll like it.  You can rate songs, create playlists, add or delete tracks on playlists, delete playlists, etc on either the PC or the ID without concern for keeping two libraries in sync (because you will only be using ONE library, and one database of songs). I have my server as MC29.. and two clients on MC28 and this works fine.  Anyway..... let's set it up..

STEP 1 - On the PC...  Tools + Options + Media Network.  Check "Use media network to share...    Write down your new Access Key.  Check "Authentication".  Create a user name and password... and write those down.  Click "OK"

STEP 2 - On the Id...   Click "Playing Now" (upper left).  Click on "Playing from main library".  Click "add library" middle of screen.  This is where you add the library from the PC.  Give it a name (Like "Main Library" or "Master Library" or whatever).  Now type in the Access Key you wrote down earlier (case sensitive).  Now click "OK".  Now login with the user name and password you wrote down earlier.

STEP 3 - On the Id...  Under "Playing Now" click on the new library you just added  (although it should default to that).

Now you can verify all your playlists (from the PC) show on the Id.  Rate some songs... delete some tracks from a playlist or two.  And then go back to the PC and verify that your changes have updated the library.

  Thank-you for the step-by-step instructions!  There are some little things that if not done exactly as you specified cause problems (i learned that!).  While I am so freaked out about messing up my database and I shouldn't be, I ended up doing this in reverse to my laptop where no music files reside to see how it works.  And, it works well so far.  I made a song rating change on the Id and it only took < 30 seconds to show up on the laptop.  The library concept is starting to make more intuitive sense.  Even though I have been using MC for about 5 years, how Servers and Libraries work dynamically was mostly lost on me because I didn't use MC that way. 

In the past, you needed to match the client and server versions very closely. That has been greatly relaxed over time.  I would give the combination of 28 on the Id and 29 on the server a try and see if it works.  You can do a library backup first on both the Id and the server just in case there is any problem.

OK - thanks!  My very small test case so far is working fine.  I need to play with this more to thoroughly test.  Very encouraging and after being a MC user for 5 years I feel like a kid in the candy store using MC as it is intended.

[Shasta Mike]

@badger - I followed your instructions and got the Id and PC libraries synced.  Basically, I am using the Id to play from the PC library. 

Here is the issue I ran into which I don't know is normal or not.  After using Media Network as you outlined for a few hours I realized there were ratings on the Id library that I needed.  So, I switched back to the local library on the Id to find those.  Afterwards I went to switch back to the library connection to the PC and it was gone. 

When I switch libraries on the Id does that break the connection to the PC?  Do I need to plan on reestablishing that connection everytime I do something in a different library? 

[dtc]

MC connects to one library at a time. If you switch to the main library and want to go back to the server library, you need to click on the Playing Now link to the server library.

[badger]

MC connects to one library at a time. If you switch to the main library and want to go back to the server library, you need to click on the Playing Now link to the server library.

Yes, as dtc says you're working with "one library at a time".  Keep in mind that the two libraries (Id vs PC) have nothing to do with each other... especially since (as I understand it), your Id local library is dealing with it's OWN (and separate) copy of your songs/tracks.  So any ratings you have set on the Id's library will have to be manually entered again while connected to the PCs library.  Hopefully there aren't too many tracks to do manually, but the (recommended) goal is to get to where you're working with one library and one set of files/tracks.