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[asfak78]

Hi everyone,
I have a HIDIZS S9 Pro, which can do up to DSD512 natively, connected to DELL Inspiron N5010. JRiver Media center 29.0.41 (64bit) installed on Windows 11. Output encoding on DSP Studio set to none. Bitstreaming set to DSD. System and application volumes set to 100%. Audio device set to SXW UAD [ASIO] which is Hidizs s9 pro. The problem is DSD512 files (.dsf) play with no sound. Audio path shows Direct. Input: DSD DSD512 (8X) 1bit 2ch from source format DSF. Output: DSD DSD512 (8X) 1bit 2ch using ASIO (bitstreaming). DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256 play fine. PCM files play fine too. Only DSD512 plays without sound. Please help.

[dtc]

Does the DAC say it is receiving 256/512 DSD?

[asfak78]

yes, it does as per led indicator

[dtc]

It looks like you setup is OK. The one concern is using usb 2 on the PC rather than usb 3. But that is a long shot.

[asfak78]

I'm using USB 2 port already.

[dtc]

I'm using USB 2 port already.

The concern is whether the usb 2 connection works correctly with the DAC at this high speed. I think the DAC is usb 3.  There are occasionally problems with usb 2 to usb 3 connections. Again, a long shot.

[asfak78]

A friend of mine lent me his Fujitsu Siemens Amilo SI 3655 with windows 10 pro installed. He is a Foobar fan. To my surprise the DSD512 files played perfectly there.

[dtc]

Did you try MC on the Fujitsu computer?

[asfak78]

No, I didn't cos of license restrictions

[dtc]

You can always download a trial version on any computer.

[asfak78]

I had foo installed on my Dell. I had some plugins installed too. The files play fine.

[dtc]

If you install MC on the Fujitsu and it works, that points to a possible problem with the original computer, which could be a problem with the hardware.  Foobar on a different computer does not really tell you much about MC on the original computer, other than that the DAC works.  You could also install Foobar on the original computer and see if that works.  This is not a standard problem so you need to change 1 thing at a time to get to the bottom of your problem.

[asfak78]

I installed MC on the Fujitsu Siemens but the problem still persists. Everything plays fine but DSD512.

[dtc]

Opps - you already tried foobar on the Dell and it works. So, it really looks like MC is the problem. I don't see any setup problems, so I am not sure why MC does not work.

Good work at narrowing down the problem.

[dtc]

Is the DSD512 file on a local disk? If it is on a network or a usb drive, can you put it on an internal drive.  It is possible there is a buffering problem from disk if the access is slow.

[asfak78]

I thought the same so I moved the files from my USB HDD to my internal storage. still the same problem. I also had Signalyst HQplayer installed and everything works fine. It really gives me headache. Should I go for MC 28 if it is more stable?

[dtc]

MC28 should not be any different than MC29 but you can try it. Also, if you have Memory Playback  turned on, turn it off. And if you have it off, try Play File Undecoded from Memory.  Another long shot. Trying to eliminate any possible problems.

[asfak78]

I installed MC 28 on both windows 10 and 11, still the same problem. Foobar2000 and HQplayer work fine with DSD512. I hope developers would take this into consideration on MC 30.

[Matt]

Could you send a log showing playback fail to matt at jriver dot com?

We don't have any devices that play DSD512, but do have DSD256 devices and those work.

Thanks.

[Matt]

We just ordered a DSD512 device too.

[Manfred]

My rme ADI-2 DAC FS does support DSD up to DSD 4x. I have 2 Albums in DSD 512. They play fine. I have enabled DSD bit streaming (No DoP in the device settings!) . Also in DSP & Output fromat I have set "Greater than 768 Hz->768Hz. MC plays the DSD 8x file as DSD 256 4x (see screenshot). Driver is rme MADIface USB (ASIO).

[asfak78]

here are all the screenshots
thanks

[asfak78]

rest of screenshots

[asfak78]

Hi everyone,
thanks alot for trying to reach out and find a solution.
As I said in my previous posts DSD512 files (.dsf) play but without sound. Everything else PCM or DSD plays fine. My Dell Inspiron N5010 has Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU M 350  @ 2.27GHz   2.26 GHz and 6.00 GB of RAM. I could get Foobar200 to play the files but with some popping and crackling. I tried DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) [ASIO] to no avail although it worked fine with Foobar2000. Today I gave the DSP studio a try and set Output Encoding to 8x DSD in native format put the files played without sound. When Output Encoding set to 4x DSD in native format, the files worked fine. My DAC is HIDIZS S9 Pro.

[dtc]

Audio Path is reporting DSD256. Can you confirm that the Sample Rate is DSD512 in the tags. If so, there is something strange going on, although that is also what Manfred reported.

[asfak78]

screenshot settings IV shows audio path for DSD512 file

[dtc]

Yes, but can you confirm that the Sample Rag tag is listed at DSD512, just to be sure. There seems to be a disconnect ok between what you think the sample rate is and what Audio Path reports, which is weird. So, just wanted to check the tag value also.

[asfak78]

tags of DSD files (playing without sound)
5 Tracks in DSD512
Notes:
We are pleased to announce the availability of Native DSD Presents 5 Tracks in DSD 512, in addition to the original DSD 256 releases from the albums listed. These higher bit rate DSD 512 tracks are all pure DSD created. They are not up samplings, for there are no PCM or DXD conversions involved in their production. They are re-modulations of the original DSD 256 encoding modulation that produced the DSD 256 releases. The sonic advantage to these new Stereo DSD 512 releases, as with all higher DSD bit rate releases, is the wider frequency passband prior to the onset of modulation noise. This results in the listener’s DAC using gentler and more phase linear filters for playback of the music.

Tracklist:
1. Les Chats Noirs-La Chanson - 02:57
2. Miles Davis-Milestones, Yuko Mabuchi - 04:57
3. Vivaldi-The Four Seasons-Winter, Rachel Podger, Brecon Baroque-1.Largo - 02:16
4. Barrios-La Catedral, Ricardo Gallén-3.Allegro solemne - 03:10
5. Dave Brubeck-Take Five Reprise (Desmond), Feenbrothers - 04:21

[Manfred]

Audio Path is reporting DSD256. Can you confirm that the Sample Rate is DSD512 in the tags. If so, there is something strange going on, although that is also what Manfred reported.

[Manfred]

To Asak78: Could you try to set the samplerate in DSP Studio for "Greater than 768,000 Hz to 705.600 Hz and Output Encoding to none.

[asfak78]

To Asfak78: Could you try to set the samplerate in DSP Studio for "Greater than 768,000 Hz to 705.600 Hz and Output Encoding to none.

I did as was asked by Manfred, still got the very same problem (Playing DSD512 .dsf files without sound).

[asfak78]

I changed the audio device to Hidizs s9 pro [Kernel Streaming]. DSP Studio Output Encoding set to "none" and greater than 768.000 set to 705,600. It played DSD512 as DSD64 with stuttering

[Awesome Donkey]

In those last screenshots, I'm curious to why you're using kernel streaming instead of ASIO?

Also, the stuttering is from Media Center converting the DSD512 file to either DSD256 or DSD64 to play it back, but your hardware isn't powerful enough to handle the conversion on-the-fly, so there's stutters and hiccups.

[asfak78]

In those last screenshots, I'm curious to why you're using kernel streaming instead of ASIO?

Also, the stuttering is from Media Center converting the DSD512 file to either DSD256 or DSD64 to play it back, but your hardware isn't powerful enough to handle the conversion on-the-fly, so there's stutters and hiccups.

I'm doing it to get some sound out of JRiver MC. I know my laptop isnt that powerful hardware-wise but I wouldnt have done that if I could get MC + ASIO to play DSD512 with some kind of sound. I'm just exhausting all possibilities.

[dtc]

Both of you report a file tagged as DSD512 shows as playing as DSD256 in Audio Path. That may be simply a problem with Audio Path reporting the wrong sample rate or it may be an actual playback problem. Hopefully once Matt has a DSD512 DAC he will be able to determine which is the case.  It is possible that Audio Path just was not updated when DSD512 was added. 

[Manfred]

Both of you report a file tagged as DSD512 shows as playing as DSD256 in Audio Path

I agree  - I was wondering that MC converts DSD to DSD - it is not a feature that I have seen before.

But ADI-2 DAC FS shows that he is playing DSD 256. So they has been some transformation done by MC!

By the way  - roon does convert DSD 512 to DSD 256  using sample rate conversion 22.579MHz->11.290 MHz and applies Sigma-Delta modulator to output DSD 256.

[dtc]

I agree  - I was wondering that MC converts DSD to DSD - it is not a feature that I have seen before.

But ADI-2 DAC FS shows that he is playing DSD 256. So they has been some transformation done by MC!

By the way  - roon does convert DSD 512 to DSD 256  using sample rate conversion 22.579MHz->11.290 MHz and applies Sigma-Delta modulator to output DSD 256.

As far as I know, MC can only convert from one DSD sample rate to another by converting to PCM. I would be surprised if that is done behind the scenes and you would notice a signficant change in CPU usage.  Pretty sure there is no Delta-Sigma modulator in MC.

Does your DAC support DSD512? When I look through the manual, it only mentions up to DSD256, if I have the right manual.  Maybe an upgrade that is not in the manual?

[asfak78]

Hi guys,
sorry for the late reply. My DAC (Hidizs s9 pro) supports up to DSD512 natively. It also supports DoP up to DSD256. Using WASAPI I can do up to DSD256 because the sample rate needed for DoP-ing DSD256 is 705.6 KHz. When using ASIO to DoP DSD256, the files play without sound with the audio path showing Input: DoP DSD256(4x) 1bit 2ch from source format DSF and Output: DoP DSD256(4x) 1bit 2ch using ASIO (Bitstreaming). When trying to do DSD512 using DoP I get an error message on MC and on Foobar because as I understand it a sample rate of 1.411MHz is needed which no DAC can do it today even CHORD DAVE. Doing native or raw DSD512 is the only solution but JMC plays the files without sound. Foobar can do it. HQPlayer can do all. I'm not talking about converting between DSD different sample rates. All I'm trying to do is outputting DSD512 natively to the DAC to play with sound. The DAC receives the signal as per LED indicator but JMC plays it without sound.
thanks

[Manfred]

Does your DAC support DSD512? When I look through the manual, it only mentions up to DSD256, if I have the right manual.  Maybe an upgrade that is not in the manual?

No! ADI-2 DAC FS does not support DSDS 512 native. DSD 64, DSD 128, DSD 256: yes - all works fine. So the question is: What is MC doing with DSD 512. ADI-2 DAC FS is saying it receives and plays a DSD 512 Source file converted to DSD 256.

[Manfred]

If one looks into the custom bit streaming settings:

If I set: Up to DSD 512-> error message: DAC is not capable to play DSD 512.
If I set  Up to DSD 256: DSD 512 file is played as DSD 256. Is that right? And what is MC doing in the background?

If I set  Up to DSD 128 -> DSD 256 is played as DSD 128.

[Awesome Donkey]

No! ADI-2 DAC FS does not support DSDS 512 native. DSD 64, DSD 128, DSD 256: yes - all works fine. So the question is: What is MC doing with DSD 512. ADI-2 DAC FS is saying it receives and plays a DSD 512 Source file converted to DSD 256.

Well, if you're trying to play a DSD512 file and your DAC only supports up to DSD256, then it's converting the DSD512 to a format your DAC supports, which would probably be DSD256 in this case as it's the max you have set for DSD bitstreaming. However, all DSD conversions in Media Center go through a PCM stage in the middle, so the conversion would be DSD512 > PCM > DSD256 and that conversion with the PCM stage in the middle is a lossy conversion (as all DSD to PCM and PCM to DSD conversions are).

DSD conversions, especially multichannel DSD conversions, are one of if not the most resource intensive tasks Media Center does. If your computer isn't fast enough to handle that on-the-fly conversion, you'll notice issues like hiccups during playback as it struggles.

[Manfred]

DSD512 > PCM > DSD256

ok - I got it. That's what's happening. So on my side everything is correct. CPU until was much below 10%. So no problem.

It would be nice if MC would show what's going on. Also it could be another method to directly convert a not supported DSD format by the DAC to pcm and then not back to DSD. I have only two DSD 512 album's for testing purpose.

[Awesome Donkey]

Thinking about it more, by default Media Center should be converting the DSD512 file to PCM and just playing it back like that. If it's doing another conversion back to DSD256, something doesn't sound right. What does your DSP Studio > Output Format look like?

[dtc]

ok - I got it. That's what's happening. So on my side everything is correct. CPU until was much below 10%. So no problem.

It would be nice if MC would show what's going on. Also it could be another method to directly convert a not supported DSD format by the DAC to pcm and then not back to DSD. I have only two DSD 512 album's for testing purpose.

Yes, you told it to convert and it did.  That's what the custom bit stream option is for.

I agree that Audio Path should show this, even though the output is bit streamed. Typically there are no changes when bit streaming but this is a special case where MC does change a bit stream.

[dtc]

Thinking about it more, by default Media Center should be converting the DSD512 file to PCM and just playing it back like that. If it's doing another conversion back to DSD256, something doesn't sound right. What does your DSP Studio > Output Format look like?

Agreed.  I do not remember a DSD - PCM - DSD conversion when using Custom bit streaming for DSD.