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[gworrel]

All I want is more robustness.

1. Automatically exclude JRiver files and directories from Microsoft antivirus as part of the installation or as directories for content are added as appropriate.

I  continually see the suggestion that antivirus may be to blame for a whole host of ills. I was following some somewhat tedious directions on adding various jriver folders to the exclusion list when I found that another program that I run on that machine for crypto mining had apparently automatically added itself to multiple places in the exclusion list with no attention on my part. JRiver should do the same.

2. Add "Return to default" or "Undo" options where appropriate.

I am reluctant to make any changes to jriver because every time I do I find that I am down a 3 hour rabbit hole that leaves me 2 steps forward and one step back, or the reverse. An example is when I upgraded my projector to 4k. Unlike other apps on my system, JRiver did not adjust text and images appropriately. I then tried to make changes to the scaling and found some things changing while other parts of the screen did not. I ended up in a place where I can read the screen but it is still not right. Maybe I did it wrong but I had no idea how to get back to where I started. This is just one example but it seems like I have run into this repeatedly in different parts of the program.

Looked at more specifically, "improve scaling for 4k" could be on the list.

3. Improve error handling

I  know this is a very general suggestion. My specific example stems from my reading on how to fix ongoing issues with buffering, slowness, and spinning circles. One suggestion was to make sure that all of the content locations for automatic scanning existed. Can't jriver do this automatically, and perhaps at least generate an error message?

[Awesome Donkey]

1. Automatically exclude JRiver files and directories from Microsoft antivirus as part of the installation or as directories for content are added as appropriate.

I  continually see the suggestion that antivirus may be to blame for a whole host of ills. I was following some somewhat tedious directions on adding various jriver folders to the exclusion list when I found that another program that I run on that machine for crypto mining had apparently automatically added itself to multiple places in the exclusion list with no attention on my part. JRiver should do the same.

In my opinion this isn't a good idea. When apps start adding themselves to an antivirus' exclusions list automatically, this would be considered a red flag to a lot of people and other security apps. Think about it, if a virus, trojan or some ransomware app executed on your Windows PC and the first thing it does is it adds itself to the antivirus' exclusions list it completely defeats the purpose of having antivirus, doesn't it? Besides, Windows Defender has a feature which I've seen starting to become enabled by default which protects it and other system functions from being modified in this way.

So, not a good idea to do this at all, it's counterproductive.

[gworrel]

In my opinion this isn't a good idea. When apps start adding themselves to an antivirus' exclusions list automatically, this would be considered a red flag to a lot of people and other security apps. Think about it, if a virus, trojan or some ransomware app executed on your Windows PC and the first thing it does is it adds itself to the antivirus' exclusions list it completely defeats the purpose of having antivirus, doesn't it? Besides, Windows Defender has a feature which I've seen starting to become enabled by default which protects it and other system functions from being modified in this way.

So, not a good idea to do this at all, it's counterproductive.

I fail to see the difference between telling me to add it manually, and having a routine that does it automatically. Of course I don't want viruses, trojans, and other malware doing this, which is why I don't install them on my computer. If Defender wants to protect against malware doing the same thing then they can password protect the function.

[Awesome Donkey]

I fail to see the difference between telling me to add it manually, and having a routine that does it automatically. Of course I don't want viruses, trojans, and other malware doing this, which is why I don't install them on my computer. If Defender wants to protect against malware doing the same thing then they can password protect the function.

There's a huge difference between a user adding antivirus exceptions themselves and doing it from the app programmically in an automated way. A user adding exceptions to their antivirus app, that's a normal thing to happen. But an app adding itself to an antivirus app's exclusion list, that's a very questionable and fishy action and honestly is a security risk because it defeats the antivirus protection regardless of intentions being good or bad. So, it's just not a good idea and it's not a good look, doing so could end up biting JRiver and their users, in my opinion.

As an example... what if there's potential for litigation involved for doing so? Let's say JRiver adds a feature to automatically add itself to Windows Defender's exclusions list and then somebody notices this and decides to sue JRiver for weaking their security and doing that? I know it's unlikely, but that's the kind of thing you have to think about. In contrast, just posting a tutorial on how to add Defender exclusions, that leaves it up to the user to accept the risks of doing it so if they mess up it's on them. It's also not mandatory or anything like that and the issue with Windows Defender causing problems with Media Center doesn't happen for everyone.

Ultimately it doesn't matter and the idea is a no-go regardless, as Windows Defender has an option which is enabled by default to protect itself from being tampered with so no apps can modify or make changes to exclusions outside of Defender itself, so apps or malware like viruses can't add themselves to Defender's exclusions list and the user has to manually make any changes themselves.

[JimH]

... an app adding itself to an antivirus app's exclusion list, that's a very questionable and fishy action and honestly is a security risk because it defeats the antivirus protection regardless of intentions being good or bad. So, it's just not a good idea and it's not a good look, doing so could end up biting JRiver and their users, in my opinion.

I'm in complete agreement.  This is not something we would do.

[gworrel]

There's a huge difference between a user adding antivirus exceptions themselves and doing it from the app programmically in an automated way. A user adding exceptions to their antivirus app, that's a normal thing to happen. But an app adding itself to an antivirus app's exclusion list, that's a very questionable and fishy action and honestly is a security risk because it defeats the antivirus protection regardless of intentions being good or bad. So, it's just not a good idea and it's not a good look, doing so could end up biting JRiver and their users, in my opinion.

If it's a bad idea then it should not be recommended as a potential fix for every unusual problem that crops up. If your entire objection is that it should not be included in the installation then perhaps a script that can be run by the user to automate the process when needed.

Ultimately it doesn't matter and the idea is a no-go regardless, as Windows Defender has an option which is enabled by default to protect itself from being tampered with so no apps can modify or make changes to exclusions outside of Defender itself, so apps or malware like viruses can't add themselves to Defender's exclusions list and the user has to manually make any changes themselves.

As I pointed out in my initial post, I discovered another app that did exactly what I suggested so unless this is something that Defender just added in the last 6 months, this is not true.
My goal here was to suggest changes that make jriver easier to use and less prone to problems. The crypto mining app said that antivirus apps often see crypto mining apps as malware and block them, so they suggested that you add them to the exclusion list if there are problems. I never had any problems so never did anything about it. It was only when I was going through the tedious steps of adding jriver exclusions that I found the references to the other app already there. I thought it was brilliant. I guess I am in the minority.

[JimH]

We appreciate that your intentions were good.

[slerch666]

As I pointed out in my initial post, I discovered another app that did exactly what I suggested so unless this is something that Defender just added in the last 6 months, this is not true.

The idea is not stupid, just not in line with Information Security best practices.
This is the reason Windows 10 and 11 are really anal about ensuring, as much as possible, that the USER makes the changes to default apps, etc and not some random program anymore.

From an Information Security perspective, applications that modify your exclusions without your knowledge or being explicitly indicated during an installation that this was happening, would be bad.
If the installer prompts the user and informs them in a very robust way, then that's slightly different.

Slightly different in that most people don't read anything when they install programs and just hit next next next next until it's done; but at least it told you it was doing it... if you bothered to read the prompts that is.
These are the kind of people that malware and questionable vendors rely on.

Adobe includes McAfee something or other in its products. Unless you are methodical about it, you will end up with that turd on your machine. It's super shady.




JR don't recommend everyone make modifications to Defender settings; my understanding is that they recommend it when someone has a weird issue.
In this case, it also makes sense not to force these settings onto all users, potentially making every user's computer less secure where it's a subset of users that have the need instead.

[HPBEME]

I have a suggestion that may work for everybody.

For years now I have been using a couple of free apps that bypass Microsoft's horrible interface for both the firewall and adding exclusions to defender. You can literally add dozens and dozens of exclusions in a few seconds, versus the endless tedium of clicking and navigating, clicking and navigating, over and over and over again. Simply open the desired folder, sort by extension, select all the .exe files, and drag-and-drop.  The interfaces are super simple, work fabulously, and are very robust.

You're welcome!

Defender Exclusion Tool: https://www.sordum.org/10636/defender-exclusion-tool-v1-3/
Firewall App Blocker: https://www.sordum.org/8125/firewall-app-blocker-fab-v1-7/