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Author Topic: White Background during page loads  (Read 2185 times)

HPBEME

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White Background during page loads
« on: October 28, 2022, 05:49:26 pm »

A white background “flashes” during the initial spotlight launch… for approximately ½ a second, so it is hard to time a screen grab.  However, the exact same white background is sustained for 3 to 10 seconds every time I select/launch any of the streaming options. It only relents when the streaming site fully renders. This is what I see while a streaming site is loading: https://imgur.com/n9gJ1fy

Regardless of whether it "flashes" or remains constant for several seconds, when you are in a dark room using a dark skin, this is absolutely blinding… Not joking even a little bit.

Granted, some sites (YouTube, Google Images, Ice Cast, etc.) are mostly white even after fully rendered, so there is nothing to be done about that I suppose. But for those sites that are very dark when fully rendered (Radio Paradise, lastFM, Soma FM, Digitally Imported, etc., i.e., the ones I actually use), it would be great if my eyeballs weren't in flames while waiting for them to load!

What seems like a no-brainer fix to me is, while a site is loading just default to whatever hex color the skin specifies for List Back in the XML file (relevant XML input line below is from ModernCards Dark). After all, this is the color of MC's content area right before it turns solid white! While this is not really an issue with light/bright skins, using the color specified for list background for every skin is the completely obvious solution.

<LIST>
    <Colors Text="909090" Back="2b2b2b" SelectedText="000000" SelectedBack="3A3A3A" HotText="018fff" Gridline="333333" GridlineBack="2f2f2f" OverText="a3a3a3" />

Unfortunately, Spotlight and streaming sites white background during load is only part of the problem. MC’s interface also has permanent primarily white backgrounds (for all skins, dark or light) for the home/top level pages for: Streaming, Drives and Devices, Playlists, and Podcasts. And there is also Cloud Play. That page makes zero use of any skin's defined elements: it uses a different font, it ignores the skin's defined buttons and scrollbar, and of course, it uses the white background. The Cloud Play page aesthetic completely clashes with the rest of skin, and that is true regardless of which skin is loaded.

All of the above can make navigating MC using a darker skin very jarring and unpleasant… This issue alone keeps me on the lookout for another media player where I don’t have to deal with this (but still satisfies other functionality that MC does so well).  All these issues have occurred in every major release for many years now (except spotlight obviously since that was new in v29). I find it impossible to believe this is a "just me" problem.  If you are unable to replicate it on your end that would be utterly baffling.

As for Podcasts, Drives and Devices, etc. with their permanent mostly white backgrounds… to my recollection, those pages have not changed since the earliest days of MC.  In the early years of my MC use this was not terribly bothersome, because I always used light skins. But for the last 5+ years or so, I only use dark skins, and now those white "homepages" are blindingly annoying. In addition, they could certainly benefit from a facelift even if the white background were not an issue.

Why doesn't MC simply use the background color that every skin specifies to create a consistent appearance as the default color for every page/view? This has been a complete mystery to me for years. The list/content area is the list/content area, regardless of whatever the page is presenting.  Please please please… Update this to use/match the skins specified background color.

Sorry for the rant. I guess this one has been building up for a decade+ ::) .
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eve

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2022, 06:07:36 pm »

You can *probably* fix those sites like youtube. I'm not sure if there's a way to do it with JRiver's WebView but in your browser of course, Dark Reader is indespensible. However, I've experimented in the past with using a proxy to inject JS into existing websites silently, that can run a userscript which essentially accomplishes the function of 'css modifications' as you would in a browser. That would probably fix your issues on Youtube, Google Images etc.
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2022, 06:17:50 pm »

Well... that doesn't really fix the problem at all. MC still displays pure white for 3 to 10 seconds before those pages load… That's the problem.  If I'm already blind by the time they do load, doesn't much matter if they're light or dark ;D.

I also use the dark reader extension and also consider it indispensable, but I have had no success in getting it recognized within MC.  But even if I did, I actually don't use Google images or YouTube through MC anyway - I was simply conceding that some sites will still be primarily white after being fully rendered (but in my case, those are sites I don't use through MC anyway).
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JimH

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2022, 06:48:21 pm »

If I try Spotlight with Edge or Chromium as the browser engine (Options > Tree & View > browser), I get a black flash for not more than 1/4 second.  It might be different with other skins.

If I load Public Radio Fan with Chromium, I see 5 seconds of a blank white screen.  That's just the browser loading the page.  The length of time would depend on the speed of the connection and the speed of the site's web server.  There's nothing we could do to speed that up unless we pre-loaded pages.  pix01 (our image site) is 4 seconds.   They are probably all a little different.

We'll see if there's anything we can do, but this is a browser problem.
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zybex

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2022, 07:05:31 pm »

Actually there's something you can try that may help. Just load a blank HTML page in the embedded browser with the background color matching the current skin, just before you load the target page (and immediately when the browser is started). You can optionally display something like "starting stream XYZ, any moment now..."
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2022, 07:09:03 pm »

Actually there's something you can do. Just load a blank HTML page in the embedded browser with the background color matching the current skin, just before you load the target page (and immediately when the browser is started). You can optionally display something like "starting stream XYZ, any moment now..."
I assume this is for Jim/JRiver?  I certainly have no idea how you would go about doing that :(


We'll see if there's anything we can do, but this is a browser problem.
As for this being a browser issue, why do I not see the same thing in Music Bee or Media Monkey? Anytime I launch services that access the web in those programs, there is no "flashing" or sustained white screen at all.

I'm not saying there is no delay… there is… It's just those programs do not suffer the same blinding white fate.
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JimH

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2022, 07:11:49 pm »

It's a browser issue.  We can probably patch it.

You could lighten up.  No animals have been harmed.
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2022, 07:18:50 pm »

It's a browser issue.  We can probably patch it.
Fantastic! I cannot wait for this to be fixed… Hallelujah!

Will you also be addressing the permanently mostly white home pages I also mentioned (Streaming, Drives and Devices, Podcasts, Playlists) while you're at it?

Updating the CloudPlay page so it actually uses the each skins custom elements is something that should also happen… Otherwise every skin has this redheaded stepchild page that doesn't match anything (my apologies to any user who is an actual "redheaded stepchild").

You could lighten up.  No animals have been harmed.
I'm an animal, and my eyeballs are harmed every single time I navigate to one of these pages in a dark room… That is not a joke.
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2022, 08:43:08 am »

Since it's sounds like you may look at fixing this issue, I forgot to mention one other place where the "white flash" occurs: it also happens when you switch from one of MC's built in visualizations (e.g. cover art) to a custom track info plug-in.
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eve

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2022, 01:36:52 pm »

It's a browser issue.  We can probably patch it.

You could lighten up.  No animals have been harmed.

Saving my eyes here. Those white backgrounds are SEARING at times. I know I know, the 'solution' is not using a 48" television as a monitor but hey, I like it.

Thanks Jim.
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2022, 02:41:10 pm »

Saving my eyes here. Those white backgrounds are SEARING at times. I know I know, the 'solution' is not using a 48" television as a monitor but hey, I like it.
Thank you for confirming this eve!

You also mentioned something else… The 48 inch television. This may explain why Jim thinks my description of "blinding" is over the top. 

I suppose this issue is not nearly as noticeable on say a 27 inch monitor or smaller in a reasonably well lit room. But I use MC on a 65" OLED TV, from which I am positioned approximately 6 feet away.  So when using an MC dark skin...  in a dark room...  switching to a page that produces that pure white background it is not merely a minor annoyance, but more like a "wall of white" that is literally (temporarily) blinding.  I would say it is akin to somebody switching on a high-powered flashlight in your face - extremely unpleasant.

I imagine most folks use the Theater View mode when using MC on a large TV (where the white background is not an issue), but I don't.  I prefer to use standard view. 
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cncb

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2022, 01:36:33 pm »

This should be fixed in 30.0.28.  During load it will use the background color specified for the tree in the current skin.
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2022, 06:13:01 pm »

This should be fixed in 30.0.28.  During load it will use the background color specified for the tree in the current skin.
Thank you very much for making this change!  But... the color that it applies appears to be using the "swap red for blue" color, instead of the actual hex code specified for the Tree [back] color .

<TREE>
   <Colors  Text="FFFFFF"  SelectedText="FFFFFF"  Back="0060DA"  SelectedBack="000025" />

It instead shows color DA6000. The first picture below shows what I now see while a page is loading.  The second picture shows spotlight, which also uses the tree back color, and there the specified color is applied correctly (though it does "flash" the orange color prior fully rendering the spotlight page).

NOTE: these colors are my local in-work version of the yet to be released new Dream in Blue skin, so you won't see this if you use the current version from the plug-in page.

Almost all other skins use black, dark gray, white, or off-white for the tree background color.  For these colors, the swap blue & red in the hex color code makes almost no difference in what you see.  You can easily verify that it is swapping the colors however, by applying substantially different values in the hex code for red and blue and then launch a streaming site.
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JimH

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2022, 06:39:03 pm »

Should it be a separate color in the skin?
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2022, 07:06:18 pm »

Well as I suggested in my prior post, I think the color that should be used is the List back color, not the Tree back color.  The List back color is used for everything else in the content area, so why use the Tree back color for page loads in the content area?

Using the Tree back color specifically for spotlight however is not a bad way to go. This allows a skin author to make it the same color as everything else in the content area, or make it unique if that is desired. Either way, the erroneous swapping of red for blue in MC's code should be remedied regardless.

The picture below is another location where the color swap occurs (and shouldn't). In addition to the chevron using the swapped colors, it also is super super tiny. This is not an icon that a user can control at all in the XML file… At least that I can find. It appears this particular item needs the skinning code updated to scale it up as needed for a 4K monitor.

Because of the unique colors specified in my Dream in Blue skin, and the fact that it uses two substantially different font colors depending where text is located in the skin (blue in the content area and white outside of the content area) it tends to reveal color discrepancies that just aren't visible with any other skin.

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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2022, 07:21:36 pm »

Or as you suggested Jim, make it a brand-new input color that is completely decoupled from any other input. That probably is the best way to go.

That is where I encountered some of my biggest frustrations in creating skins. That is, how a single input color is used in completely unrelated portions of the skin. This forces the author to compromise on a color choice in order to look "good" in multiple places, versus looking great in one spot, and terrible in another.
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cncb

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2022, 09:47:11 am »

I only see the wrong background color when using the Chromium browser plug-in (Edge shows the correct color).  Are you using Chromium?
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2022, 10:10:48 am »

I only see the wrong background color when using the Chromium browser plug-in (Edge shows the correct color).  Are you using Chromium?
I do use chromium for the internal browser option.  Switched to Edge, and confirmed that it shows the "un-swapped" (correct) Tree back color. Making that switch did not however, fix the erroneous chevron color swap.

Does this mean I have to use Edge? Or now that you know it's an issue with Chromium you can address that too?  I sure hope it is the latter, because there are issues with the Edge browser and prefer not to use it. I will save explaining the issues with it for another post on another day.

And please please please switch to using the List back color instead of the Tree back color for the page loading background - it just makes so much more sense for all the reasons I explained in post 14. Seems like that should be a non-issue to modify… just point to a different hex color input from the XML file. Keeping the Tree back color for Spotlight would be fine though, or change it as well… either way.

I also think adding what zybex suggested would be useful as well - that is, an indicator, with or without text, to make it clear that some background task is taking place. Some of the streaming sites can take up to 10 seconds to load (at least for me).  You don't even have to create anything new - MC already has a couple of AVI files that indicate a background task is running.
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cncb

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2022, 10:23:27 am »

Or now that you know it's an issue with Chromium you can address that too?

Yes, it will be fixed for Chromium in the next build.  I can switch it to use the LIST skin colors, but I seem to remember with Spotlight that several of the skins did not set the list background color appropriately (I guess since an image covers it up anyways), so I decided to go with the TREE colors.  We could add an additional skin entry for the browser colors, but then we would have to choose default colors to use until all the skins are updated.
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2022, 01:05:27 pm »

Yes, it will be fixed for Chromium in the next build.
That is great! Fantastic! Thank you!

I can switch it to use the LIST skin colors, but I seem to remember with Spotlight that several of the skins did not set the list background color appropriately (I guess since an image covers it up anyways), so I decided to go with the TREE colors.
I'm not sure how that would've happened, because it is actually the other way around. :o

It is not possible to specify an image for the List background - you can only specify a color.  For the Tree however, you can specify an image (as I do with the Dream in Blue skin, and as Marko has done in the Black and Blue skins) which then overrides whatever color is specified for Tree back. That is why you see the textured appearance in the tree, but a sky blue Spotlight background in my pictures posted above (because Spotlight pulls from the overridden Tree back color).

We could add an additional skin entry for the browser colors, but then we would have to choose default colors to use until all the skins are updated.
This may be the best way to go for the reasons I indicated in post 15. But having thought about it some more, as long as the List back color is used, the color shown while waiting for pages to load will be completely consistent with the skin, for every skin, basically no matter what.  Making a dedicated color input just for page load backgrounds is probably not necessary.

All that said, there are definitely other skin elements that should have their own dedicated color inputs… But as before, I will save that for another post on another day.
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eve

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2022, 04:34:53 pm »

Thank you for confirming this eve!

You also mentioned something else… The 48 inch television. This may explain why Jim thinks my description of "blinding" is over the top. 

I suppose this issue is not nearly as noticeable on say a 27 inch monitor or smaller in a reasonably well lit room. But I use MC on a 65" OLED TV, from which I am positioned approximately 6 feet away.  So when using an MC dark skin...  in a dark room...  switching to a page that produces that pure white background it is not merely a minor annoyance, but more like a "wall of white" that is literally (temporarily) blinding.  I would say it is akin to somebody switching on a high-powered flashlight in your face - extremely unpleasant.

I imagine most folks use the Theater View mode when using MC on a large TV (where the white background is not an issue), but I don't.  I prefer to use standard view.

Yeah, this is what I'm facing.
Though, my OLED is frankly like 2.5-3.5 ft from my face. It's really just used as a 'surface' for windows rather than having things maximized. Throughout the day I switch from configurations like a 32" main window + a smaller 720p JRiver display floating around the side for whatever I'm watching, side by side vertical panes that stretch the entire display, a pair of 24" 16:9s with other windows up top etc. It was a little strange to get used to but it's super interesting. I don't even run this thing beyond 35-45 pixel brightness in SDR mode for most situations and it's still blindingly bright at times.

Thanks to the JRiver team for adding this fix!
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cncb

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2022, 10:53:17 am »

It is not possible to specify an image for the List background - you can only specify a color.

I remember wrong, then.  The next build uses the "LIST" skin colors.  I am still looking into the chevron color issue.  There also is a black "flash" now that I am investigating.
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HPBEME

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Re: White Background during page loads
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2022, 12:30:16 pm »

I remember wrong, then.  The next build uses the "LIST" skin colors.  I am still looking into the chevron color issue.  There also is a black "flash" now that I am investigating.
I confirm the black background "flash". It is extremely quick… Less than 1/10 of a second.  Nevertheless, ideal behavior is for MC's content area to show the LIST back color (whatever is specified for a given skin), and remains completely constant until the streaming page fully loads.  I know this is what you are trying to achieve, and I truly appreciate your efforts. Thank you again for running this all to ground.


I can help point you in the right direction for the chevron color.  Its color is driven by the Text color from the Section in the XML input file shown below:

<VIEWHEADER>
   <Colors    Text="0080FF"    ActiveTabText="FFFFFF"    HotText="FFFFFF"    HeaderBackground="000025"   Background="000025"  />
</VIEWHEADER>

Text sets the default color for tab text, and the color is displayed correctly. The chevron however swaps the red/blue hex code values and instead displays hex color FF8000

These colors are for my skin, and will obviously be different for other skins. That said, this is one of those situations where my choice of font color makes the color discrepancy obvious. The vast majority of skins use black, or dark gray for the tab's Font color, and as I noted previously, swapping red/blue hex values for grayscale colors will not show any visible difference.
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HPBEME

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Re: White Background during page loads
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2022, 07:36:21 pm »

I see that 30.0.29 now uses the LIST back color, and the chevron color is fixed -  thank you!

The chevron is still extremely tiny though (on a 4K monitor at 200% windows scale), and thus difficult to click.  Is that still on the list to be fixed, or should I start a separate thread?

Also, the "black flash" you discovered while fixing the "white flash" is still there.  Much better than a blinding white, but it would be great the color remained constant as the LIST back color throughout.  Is that still on the list to be fixed, or is it not solvable?
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EnglishTiger

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Re: White Background during page loads
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2022, 03:54:35 am »

Also, the "black flash" you discovered while fixing the "white flash" is still there.  Much better than a blinding white, but it would be great the color remained constant as the LIST back color throughout.  Is that still on the list to be fixed, or is it not solvable?

HPBME - Opening Spotlight isn't the only time that "Black Flash" appears. In Playing Now switch to displaying CoverArt and then switch to displaying a TrackInfo Plugin and you will see it there as well.
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cncb

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Re: White Background during page loads
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2022, 08:41:29 am »

The chevron is still extremely tiny though (on a 4K monitor at 200% windows scale), and thus difficult to click.  Is that still on the list to be fixed, or should I start a separate thread?

Also, the "black flash" you discovered while fixing the "white flash" is still there.  Much better than a blinding white, but it would be great the color remained constant as the LIST back color throughout.  Is that still on the list to be fixed, or is it not solvable?

We're still working on both of these.
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HPBEME

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Re: White Background during page loads
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2022, 07:43:23 pm »

Per your latest update, the chevron is no longer a chevron:  https://i.imgur.com/m21ZfcC.png
Was that the plan, or is this a 4K monitor/200% scaling anomaly? 

Also, prior when you hovered over the chevron, it changed colors just like the links do.  Is it possible to have it also use the same mouse-over color as the text links?

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cncb

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Re: White Background during page loads
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2022, 09:36:07 am »

Per your latest update, the chevron is no longer a chevron:  https://i.imgur.com/m21ZfcC.png
Was that the plan, or is this a 4K monitor/200% scaling anomaly? 

Also, prior when you hovered over the chevron, it changed colors just like the links do.  Is it possible to have it also use the same mouse-over color as the text links?

The "chevron" is now drawn as text so that it scales nicely with the UI.

The chevron mouse-over color was noticed and fixed yesterday right after the build went out.
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HPBEME

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Re: White Background during page loads
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2022, 03:28:57 pm »

The "chevron" is now drawn as text so that it scales nicely with the UI.

The chevron mouse-over color was noticed and fixed yesterday right after the build went out.
Excellent... Thank you for always following up my questions with answers... very much appreciated!
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HPBEME

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2022, 10:35:40 am »

There also is a black "flash" now that I am investigating.
Just wondering if this is still something you're trying to fix?

If you are (I hope so), I noticed starting in one of the last two versions, that during the black flash a approximately 2" x 2" square the color of the LIST background also "flashes" in the upper left corner of the content window at the same time. If this small square covered the entire content area, then there would no longer be a flash at all.  So it seems as though you have the fix in place, but for some reason it does not cover the full content window/frame.

I just wanted to let you know in the event this info is helpful.
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cncb

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Re: White background flash during page loads
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2022, 09:16:47 am »

Just wondering if this is still something you're trying to fix?

Yes, we are still looking at it.  It turns out to be more difficult than it might seem.  Sorry, it will be a while yet especially with holidays and vacations coming up.
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HPBEME

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Re: White Background during page loads
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2022, 12:11:17 pm »

Yes, we are still looking at it.  It turns out to be more difficult than it might seem.  Sorry, it will be a while yet especially with holidays and vacations coming up.
Thanks for the update.

In my own job, I can definitely appreciate how something that seems easy on the surface is actually a bear underneath - I appreciate your still driving towards a solution.  Hopefully the little bit of info in my prior post provides a clue.
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