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[AlreadyFree]

I'm using MC to send music files to an external device (phone, usb drive, etc.). The files on computer are flac but they need to be converted to mp3 to be compatible with the device. I set that up in the options and it works fine but copy of the converted mp3s are not only being sent to my device but also stored in my original source folder with the flac files. I don't want to retain these mp3's on my computer, just send the converted files to the device. Is there a way to change this?

Also if I use MC to send files that aren't in my library yet (by adding them to player and then using 'sendto device') then MC automatically adds the original files on my computer to my library after sending copies to the device. I do not want this behavior. I only want files added to my library that are in my auto-import folders. Is there a way to change this also?

[HPBEME]

I personally have never sync'd to other devices, but...

Did you check the options noted in the pic below?  If you currently have conversion cache set as "Next to File", perhaps if that is changed to "None" it will solve your problem? "Cache" to me implies temporary, so this is not likely the solution, but it was the only setting I could find (via the search box at the bottom of options dialog) that related to your issue.

[AlreadyFree]

Thanks for the suggestion but that is indeed for the true temporary files created when converting. I don't know why it's saving copies of the mp3s on the computer instead of converting straight onto the device. I thought maybe it was a setting I was overlooking but I guess it's a bug.

[JimH]

Are you using Handheld Sync from the Action Window?
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Sync_Handheld

Or ... ?

[HPBEME]

Thanks for the suggestion but that is indeed for the true temporary files created when converting.

Well as I said previously, I don't sync with handheld devices.  I do backup my entire library to a separate drive, but use a dedicated backup program for that.

In any event, I decided to play with the sync function just for my own edification. There are two different places you can set the conversion encoding format:

• Options/Encoding/Audio: File Conversion/Encoder      this encoder is used with the right-click menu:  Library Tools/Convert Format…
• Options/Handheld/Audio/Conversion/Encoder            this encoder is used with the right-click menu:  Send To/Drives & Device (also when using the Action Window/Sync Handheld)

• I right clicked on a single album, chose "send to" a portable hard drive
• New MP3 files were generated (original = FLAC) in both the source and destination folders (just like you encountered)
• I then deleted these files in both the source and destination folders for clean start
• I changed the conversion cache setting (under Options/File Locations) to "none" just as I had recommended in my initial reply to you
• I then right clicked on the same single album, chose "send to" a portable hard drive
• this time it generated the MP3 files in the destination directory only.

I tried both settings ("next to file" and "none") on two additional albums with the exact same results ("none" worked, and "next to file" generated duplicate converted files in the source folder). So for me at least, this setting absolutely controls whether files are generated in the source location (in addition to the destination directory).  So I think if you set Options/File Locations/Conversion Cache/Audio to "none", that should solve your problem.

[AlreadyFree]

Are you using Handheld Sync from the Action Window?
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Sync_Handheld

Or ... ?

I'm choosing Send To/Drives & Devices in the context menu

I tried both settings ("next to file" and "none") on two additional albums with the exact same results ("none" worked, and "next to file" generated duplicate converted files in the source folder). So for me at least, this setting absolutely controls whether files are generated in the source location (in addition to the destination directory).  So I think if you set Options/File Locations/Conversion Cache/Audio to "none", that should solve your problem.

I tried this again and it worked just like you said. I don't know what I did wrong the first time. But thanks, that fixed that problem. Any ideas on how to work around the second issue?

Also if I use JRC to send files that aren't in my library yet (by adding them to player and then using 'sendto device') then JRC automatically adds the original files on my computer to my library after sending copies to the device. I do not want this behavior. I only want files added to my library that are in my auto-import folders. Is there a way to change this also?

[HPBEME]

Also if I use JRC to send files that aren't in my library yet (by adding them to player and then using 'sendto device') then JRC automatically adds the original files on my computer to my library after sending copies to the device. I do not want this behavior. I only want files added to my library that are in my auto-import folders. Is there a way to change this also?

What exactly does "adding them to player" mean? Since you indicate you have auto-import folders designated, I presume it means you are copy/pasting files from a non-auto-import folder?

If that is the case, I don't think it will work because I am pretty sure MC treats a "paste" into the program as an import... but I am not 100% positive about that.  The auto-import folders are just that, folders that MC "watches and automatically imports" any new files.  However, you can still add files to your library manually too, e.g., pasting, drag-n-drop, etc., directly into MC.  If you use these approaches, I am not sure there is a way to prevent them from being imported at the same time, but other's more knowledgeable may be able to provide a solution.

So... If I understand correctly, your goal is to use MC to convert "non-library" files (located in non-auto-import folders) for use on a portable/handheld device, and once completed, neither original or converted files end up in MC's library? Is that right?  Just looking for absolute clarity, so those who might be able to answer what I cannot know exactly what it is you are trying to achieve.

There is one setting that might affect this in the pic below.  Though it says "automatically import files when played", it could be that it imports files when MC performs any operation - since "playing" a file is an MC "operation" - perhaps other "operations" trigger an import?  Just a guess though.

And FYI...  I doubt anybody was confused by the JRC acronym, but... typically MC (Media Center) is used, or sometimes the longer JR-MC (JRiver Media Center), but not JRC.  Using consistent acronyms returns better/more relevant search results.

[AlreadyFree]

What exactly does "adding them to player" mean?

I mean right-clicking an album folder in Windows Explorer and choosing "Add to playing now" in the context menu so that it shows up in the "Player" tab in the left pane of MC (shown in attached pic).

So... If I understand correctly, your goal is to use MC to convert "non-library" files (located in non-auto-import folders) for use on a portable/handheld device, and once completed, neither original or converted files end up in MC's library? Is that right?

Yes, exactly right.

There is one setting that might affect this in the pic below.  Though it says "automatically import files when played", it could be that it imports files when MC performs any operation - since "playing" a file is an MC "operation" - perhaps other "operations" trigger an import?  Just a guess though.

I did notice that setting but I have it unselected already so that doesn't seem to apply to this situation.

And FYI...  I doubt anybody was confused by the JRC acronym, but... typically MC (Media Center) is used, or sometimes the longer JR-MC (JRiver Media Center), but not JRC.  Using consistent acronyms returns better/more relevant search results.

  I remembered everyone using a specific acronym to refer to JRiver Media Center but apparently I guessed wrong on that one. It's been corrected in the original post just for clarification.

[HPBEME]

Thanks for the clarifications.

That said, when I follow the steps that you did, I get exactly what I think you want - no files are added to my main (auto import) music folders, and the converted files are only added to the portable folder I specified.  Nothing new is added to the MC library database.

The only suggestion I have left is to scrutinize your specified file/folder locations in both the Configure Auto Import dialog, as well as the settings in the handheld dialog shown in the pix below.  Maybe also confirm that the File Locations/Conversion Cache setting is still set to "none".  Maybe it got toggled off by accident?

[AlreadyFree]

That said, when I follow the steps that you did, I get exactly what I think you want - no files are added to my main (auto import) music folders, and the converted files are only added to the portable folder I specified.  Nothing new is added to the MC library database.

Just to clarify, the problem wasn't that files were getting added to the auto import folders. The file locations were remaining the same but the flac files in the folder outside of the auto import folders were being added to MC's internal library after sending converted mp3 versions to the external device.

However I didn't retest that after setting "Conversion Cache" to "None". After testing now, I can confirm that making that change fixes this problem as well. It still definitely doesn't seem like the correct intended behavior for this setting to control and is far from intuitive (maybe a developer can chime in or just finds it worthwhile enough to silently correct it) but regardless, my issues have both been remedied. Thanks for all the assistance. Hopefully this will help someone else too at some point.

[HPBEME]

Just to clarify, the problem wasn't that files were getting added to the auto import folders. The file locations were remaining the same but the flac files in the folder outside of the auto import folders were being added to MC's internal library after sending converted mp3 versions to the external device.

I was not sure about that part, so I included it my reply just in case it applied.

However I didn't retest that after setting "Conversion Cache" to "None". After testing now, I can confirm that making that change fixes this problem as well.

I'm glad to hear all is working now.

It still definitely doesn't seem like the correct intended behavior for this setting to control and is far from intuitive (maybe a developer can chime in or just finds it worthwhile enough to silently correct it)

I think the nomenclature is the heart of the issue. As I stated in my first reply, MC referring to it as a conversion "cache" implies to me "temporary".  Consequently, it is not intuitive or obvious that new/additional files will be added to the source folder (when choosing next to file). Maybe JRiver/Matt can update the File Locations/Conversion Cache wording as follows:

• change None (do not create cache) to:   Create Converted Files in Destination Folder ONLY
• change Next to File to:                          Create Converted Files in Both Source & Destination Folders

Somewhat verbose, but I think that or something similar would make it completely clear - do you agree? or perhaps I'm missing your point altogether ?

[AlreadyFree]

As I stated in my first reply, MC referring to it as a conversion "cache" implies to me "temporary".

I completely agree. That's how I read it too. There are indeed temporary files created by most encoders but it's usually not anything that you'd want to save and they are usually automatically deleted after the encode is complete. But those are the files that I assumed were being referred to with this setting.

• change None (do not create cache) to:   Create Converted Files in Destination Folder ONLY
• change Next to File to:                          Create Converted Files in Both Source & Destination Folders

That's the way it's working now (plus choosing "Next to File" also adds source file to library if it isn't already in there) but what I'm wondering is if that's even the intended behavior or not? If so, then yes, the description of the setting needs to better reflect what it does. But if it's really just a setting for temporary encoder file location, like the current description implies, and these other actions are unintended, then that's really even a bigger problem and should be corrected. I personally don't see the benefit of either of these behaviors in this context whether it's intended or not. But there could be a reason I'm not seeing.

[HPBEME]

My assumption is the current behavior is exactly as the developers intend, but the word "cache" confuses things. The wording I proposed above was simply to make the current behavior of each setting absolutely explicit and unambiguous (which I believe it does). 

MC should also change the Conversion Cache "Header" name to Conversion Settings or maybe Convert File Types or whatever. The main point being to get rid of the word "cache".

I personally don't see the benefit of either of these behaviors in this context whether it's intended or not. But there could be a reason I'm not seeing.

I am not sure I see a benefit of writing converted files to the source folder either, but I simply don't use this functionality myself.  I guess it would alleviate you from having to rerun the conversion process for newly added portable drives or phones (you could just copy/paste the already converted files instead)?  Perhaps somebody who does a lot of file converting/syncing to other devices can weigh in and explain why it's useful (or not).

[AlreadyFree]

It just seems like a weird mix of behaviors tied to a single setting called "Conversion Cache". Especially automatically importing the source file into the library for a file not already in the library but exported to an external device. It doesn't import the extra converted file left in the "Conversion Cache" "Next to the file" into the library, just the source file. That behavior has nothing at all to do with "Conversion Cache" by either definition, it just seems like a mistake.

But even if given the benefit of the doubt, the "Conversion Cache" setting should be working the same way for all conversions, whether converting to another format to reside on the same hard drive as the source or to be sent to an external device. However, converting a file from flac in one folder to a mp3 in another folder on the same hard drive doesn't result in an extra mp3 in the source folder like it does when sending the converted file to an external device. So that would render your suggestion of a simple change of description inaccurate again:

• change Next to File to:                          Create Converted Files in Both Source & Destination Folders

[HPBEME]

It just seems like a weird mix of behaviors tied to a single setting called "Conversion Cache". Especially automatically importing the source file into the library for a file not already in the library but exported to an external device. It doesn't import the extra converted file left in the "Conversion Cache" "Next to the file" into the library, just the source file.

I simply do not get this behavior - as I noted in a previous post, the source files I converted are NOT added to my library.

That behavior has nothing at all to do with "Conversion Cache" by either definition, it just seems like a mistake.

I agree, but since I'm just not seeing the behavior that you are, I recommend you check everything again - in two prior instances you found that what I said was correct after further investigation.

It is only an assumption on my part that the MC sync conversion is working the way it's supposed to.  In my brief testing, I confirmed consistent behavior with what I would expect to see for those settings (IF I ignore my natural association of "cache" = temporary).  I certainly have not tried every possible file conversion combination there is to determine what and where various file types are written (not even close… that would take forever), so perhaps that is the difference.  For reference, all my source files are FLAC, and the MP3 settings I used for conversion are shown in the pic below.  If yours do not match that exactly, maybe that's the problem.

[HPBEME]

One last thing occurs to me. All my FLAC files are individual files.  Maybe MC behaves differently if you convert a single audio file + cue sheet (i.e., all tracks are in 1 file).  So... are your source files individual tracks? or a single audio & cue file?

[AlreadyFree]

I simply do not get this behavior - as I noted in a previous post, the source files I converted are NOT added to my library.

I'm only getting the flac source files automatically imported into my internal MC library when sending to an external device while having "Audio Conversion Cache" set to "Next To File". Changing it to "None" fixes it. Are you not getting that behavior? All my tests have been done with individual flac files, no whole album .cue files.

[HPBEME]

Correct:   Whether "Audio Conversion Cache" is set to "Next To File" or "None", the files are NOT added to the MC database (a.k.a., "the library"). This assumes neither the source or destination folders are designated for auto-import.

Since the files to be converted are located in the Playing Now list, they may show up as "Recently Imported" - in reality though, they are not actually imported.  To confirm that, perform a search on your entire library, and the new files (source or converted) will not be found.

[AlreadyFree]

To confirm that, perform a search on your entire library, and the new files (source or converted) will not be found.

That's exactly what I'm doing and they are found (source, not converted). Setting "Audio Conversion Cache" to "None" removes the behavior of importing the files into the library. But I'm unsure why that is or why you can't reproduce it. Neither the source or destination folders are designated for auto-import.

[HPBEME]

I agree that MC should not add files to your library just because you are converting them regardless of which option you choose. That said, I'm out of gas on this one - nothing new to add at this point.  Regardless though, you can still accomplish exactly what you want by always choosing the "None" option as you discovered - it is just the "Next to File" option that is at issue.

As for making the behavior more consistent and/or intuitive, and changing nomenclature to better reflect explicitly the action that MC will take - both would be improvements IMO.  I assume Matt has followed this thread at least the little, so I guess it is up to him if he wants to expend the effort to make those changes.