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[konkeydong75]

[MC 29.0.87]

I am looking for some general recommendations of settings or changes to make to improve the overall performance of MC.

The main issue I have is in Theater View when moving from one sub-grouping of TV channels to another in the guide, it is very slow to change.

Once the change has been made, navigating the channels is fine, and hitting back or home is fine, the issue I have just appears to just be with changing from one sub-group of channels in the guide.

The groups themselves are just based on a single keyword rule and that is all.

I have removed the AV software as a test and there has no been change.  General performance seems to be fine, it's only changing TV guide groups where it stumbles. The issue is seen on the MC server and all connected TV clients.

I feel like I'm missing something basic here and would appreciate any suggestions.

[konkeydong75]

Can anyone suggest anything I can try for this?

[zybex]

Is the MC Server installed on an SSD?
Is there enough RAM on the server for the DB size? (check memory usage and swap file usage in Task Manager)
Do you have many slow-motion documentaries? 
 
I don't know what specifically happens when accessing the TV Guide/Channels, maybe @Yaobing can help.

[tzr916]

Are you referring to Theater View guide? I have two guides setup, switching is not slow. Using smartlist with keyword, and 14 days worth of programming.

guide 1:

Code: [Select]

-[=TVInfo(ChannelKeywords)&DataType=[list]]=[Favorite]
guide 2:

Code: [Select]

-[=TVInfo(ChannelKeywords)&DataType=[list]]=[OTA][/list][/list]

[konkeydong75]

Hi @tzr916,

Thanks for replying.

All of my groups have the same two rules

Code: [Select]

[TVTime]=#TVGuideStartDate-7d (I did previously have 14 days configured but changed it in case it improved performance)

Code: [Select]

[=TVInfo(ChannelKeywords)&DataType=[list]]=[KEYWORD]

[konkeydong75]

Hi @zybex,

MC is installed on an SSD and the machine has 16GB RAM.

Memory usage and swap file usage seem fine.

How do I check the MC database size?

[tzr916]

Maybe you can post your machine's jmark score, it's under the help menu.

[konkeydong75]

Thanks @tzr916.

Details are below.

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.044 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.736 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 2.252 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 1.473 seconds
Score: 1809

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 0.465 seconds
    Flood filling... 0.459 seconds
    Direct copying... 0.542 seconds
    Small renders... 1.194 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 1.580 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 1.888 seconds
Score: 3590

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.239 seconds
    Populate database... 1.138 seconds
    Save database... 0.226 seconds
    Reload database... 0.114 seconds
    Search database... 1.637 seconds
    Sort database... 1.018 seconds
    Group database... 0.668 seconds
Score: 4265

JRMark (version 29.0.87 64 bit): 3221

[tzr916]

Is that your Server? Is it laptop? CPU speed/cores, GPU, LAN/Wifi all matter. When possible the server really should be a desktop and wired to Gb LAN, not wifi. Especially if you only gather guide data on the server then let the clients get the data from the server.

I do have an older low power client that has a jmark of less than 1500, and it is slow to first open the guide and when switching between guides. My i5-10210U @2.1GHz laptop jmark is 4144, no issues at all with the guide speed as a client. My i7-7700 @3.6GHz desktop server jmark is (relatively) better than what you posted, no issues with guide speed.

Heck, some newer machines in the master jmark thread are hitting 8k and above! My aging server:

Code: [Select]

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.043 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.794 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 1.386 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.913 seconds
Score: 2080

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 0.219 seconds
    Flood filling... 0.217 seconds
    Direct copying... 0.355 seconds
    Small renders... 0.852 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 0.661 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 1.457 seconds
Score: 5851

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.088 seconds
    Populate database... 0.716 seconds
    Save database... 0.097 seconds
    Reload database... 0.039 seconds
    Search database... 1.133 seconds
    Sort database... 0.559 seconds
    Group database... 0.579 seconds
Score: 6695

JRMark (version 29.0.85 64 bit): 4875

[konkeydong75]

Yes that is the machine I am using as my server.

It is mostly used for watching TV from the screen directly connected to it but also serves 3 clients, and 99.9 % of the time only one of them is in use and even then, very rarely.

Most of the time, only one machine is ever used for watching TV, depending whereabouts in the house we are, so we are either watching TV on the server itself or on a single client, with the server then only being used for serving the client.

The CPU is (I know it's old, but the machine is nippy for everything other than switching TV guide groups) an i5-3470 @ 3.2GHz, quad core, 16 GB RAM.  The GPU is an nvidia GeForce GT 1030. OS and MC are installed on an SSD. A separate physical disk is used for media and a separate RAID 0 array is used for recording TV and time shifting. The network is a dedicated GbE VLAN purely for the server and the clients with no other traffic.

I know there will be plenty of other jmark scores that are far in excess of mine, but the only real performance issue I have is with changing TV guide groups and the lag on that can be 5 seconds each time, which is enough to annoy my wife enough for me to make this post!

I do understand that the server could be running on faster hardware but for everything other than changing groups in the guide, it works really well.

I have worked with HTPCs for 20 years and was a beta tester for MCE from 2001 to 2013, and have used many other solutions, but JRiver's features definitely trump everything else so I made the switch around 6 months ago. I am relatively new to JRiver and I feel like I am maybe missing something config wise or have something mis-configured.

[tzr916]

My previous server was a quad 2 core, similar to your i5-3470, which have 4 cores + 4 threads. When I made the jump to an 8 thread processor, there was a noticeable difference in MC performance.

[konkeydong75]

Hi @tzr916,

I agree with you, performance would certainly improve with a better processor, but to be honest, the performance of the whole setup honestly seems pretty good. It is just changing TV guide groups in theaterview that is the issue.

I have removed AV, changed the amount of guide data brought in to 7 days from 14 days for the guide groups and have made a test group containing a single channel with no TV guide data assigned at all, and the issue remains.

Starting a 1080P DVB-S2 channel happens pretty much immediately which surely must be more work for MC in total that changing to a guide grouping that contains a single channel with no guide data?

Do I really need to upgrade hardware just to make this issue go away?

The delay when changing groups is also exactly the same on all clients. Admittedly, these are slower hardware as all they do is run MC as clients and any recording is handled on the server, but these machines all perform well and display the exact same issue with the guide group change and take the same amount of time.

Do clients browse the guide from the server in real time or do they cache a copy of that and the library information when they connect/update?

[Mans]

Hi konkeydong75, I'm sorry to hear you're still noticing this issue as it's a long time you've first posted about it.
My setup is pretty the same as yours, only using a more recent PC as MC Server and has a GT1080 as primary DP out.
As mentioned into your other post, groups under TV Guide is also what I'm using. Using keywords which points to a specific smartlist.
Speed when switching amongst these groups is the same as making other types of switch over's.
FYI I'm using 2 rather old NUC's as MC clients upstairs and the group switching speed is actually pretty snap and fast.
Sorry but i wouldn't have any suggestion about your issue.
I think Yaobing, if i remember well, was included into your other/initial post, maybe he can offer you some solution or test ? P.e. loading your library setup via a backup ? In case the issue isn't hardware related ?

[konkeydong75]

Hi @Mans,

Thank you for your comments.

I will continue trying things as and when I get the time - I was just hoping that others had seen the same issue and worked out what it was.

[zybex]

What is the source of the TV Guide data? Maybe the source XML has grown extremely large (I have no clue how to check, I don't use the TV features).
If the Guide is just filtering Smartlists, maybe you can go and open each of those Smartlists to see if they take a long time opening. With normal Media files sometimes all it takes is a few files located on an inaccessible network location, causing a 30s freeze when MC tries to access them or check for their existence. Not sure if any of this applies to TV (it likely applies to recorded TV files, but not to live TV channels).

As Mans said, Yaobing knows best. Try sending him a PM.

[konkeydong75]

Hi @zybex,

The TV guide data is an XML file that is generated every 24 hours on another internal (non MC) server and copied down to the MC server where it is stored locally.

The XML contains 14 to 15 days of data and across all channels is around 65-70MB.

The guide is just filtering on smartlists and when not in theater view the smartlists open immediately.

All data is held locally on the MC server itself for images, music, video and recorded TV, so there should be zero requests for remote media made by the server for any media or guide information unless something is being streamed and streaming starts pretty much instantly.

This is a real head scratcher for me.

[zybex]

Since the XML is generated on a different machine perhaps there are some references to files on that machine. Maybe try opening the XML in Notepad++ and search for "\\".

If you're more technically inclined you could inspect what happens when you switch the Guide Group with tools like Process Monitor or Wireshark. Any network accesses will show up there. You can also check if the problem is I/O or CPU limitations with Windows own Resource Monitor.

[konkeydong75]

The XML is generated using pure PHP on a linux system with no reference to any UNC path. I have double checked and there are definitely no instances of \\ in the file.

There is nothing really of note performance or network wise whilst changing groups. All groups have logos assigned to the channels, and after a group has been switched nothing seems to happen, but as you scroll down the group, the odd call seems to be made to external TV guide data providers for missing logos, although this has zero performance effect on scrolling down the grid of channels in the group, it is just changing groups where it seems to hang for a few seconds.

I don't know whether the skin/theme can have any effect on the issue I am seeing? I use Rapier Fusion but have tried switching back to the built in ones and it has made no difference.

[JimH]

No idea if it will help in your case, but Yaobing has done some work on MC30 to speed up channel changes.  You might wait for MC30 to see if it helps. 

[konkeydong75]

Thanks @JimH,

Have already bought the license upgrade so waiting for this drop!

I will definitely try it out when it is released.

[tzr916]

The XML is generated using pure PHP on a linux system with no reference to any UNC path. I have double checked and there are definitely no instances of \\ in the file.

There is nothing really of note performance or network wise whilst changing groups. All groups have logos assigned to the channels, and after a group has been switched nothing seems to happen, but as you scroll down the group, the odd call seems to be made to external TV guide data providers for missing logos, although this has zero performance effect on scrolling down the grid of channels in the group, it is just changing groups where it seems to hang for a few seconds.

Are you running a script to actually copy the XML to the MC server local OS SSD every 24hrs? Or is MC accessing the XML over the network?
Is the MC library stored on the OS SSD?
Are the logos stored in the logos folder on the OS SSD?
Can you manually create/save those missing logos to prevent the odd call for missing logos?

[konkeydong75]

MC is pulling the XML in from a local URL every 3 days.
MC library is stored on the OS SSD.
Logos are also stored on the OS SSD.
I will try and create logos for the channels that have them missing, but one group purposefully has no logos or guide data assigned and the same delay happens when changing to that group.

[tzr916]

...All groups have logos assigned to the channels... the odd call seems to be made to external TV guide data providers for missing logos...

...one group purposefully has no logos or guide data assigned...

 ?

[konkeydong75]

?

I created a test group with 100 channels, no logos and no guide data mappings to see if anything different happened.

[konkeydong75]

@yaobing have you got any ideas of anything I can try?

[Yaobing]

Are you talking about channel switching while watching a channel, or just navigating in the Guide grid using arrow keys?

[konkeydong75]

Hi Yaobing,

Channel switching is OK, and browsing the grid is OK, the issue just seems to be when moving from one guide subgroup to another.

[Yaobing]

So, if I understand you correctly, each subchannel group is in its own list, each with a different keyword.

This is indeed slow, in particular if you have large number of channels.  I have more channels than most people, so my guide view is always slow.  Going into my main Guide list (all channels) takes 5-6 seconds.  Switching to a smaller list (of only a few channels) takes 2 seconds.

TV guide involves large amount of data, and filtering the data takes a long time.  It is definitely not satisfactory, but at this time I have not figured out a better way. 

Let me know if your situation is not what I think it is.

[konkeydong75]

Thanks for the update Yaobing.

I have 12 groups in total for specific purposes. 3 have around 160 channels in them and others anywhere between 4 and 50.

I have created a group with a single channel and zero guide data assigned as a test and the behavior was the same, but at least I know it isn't just me.

I might look into moving to new hardware but could do without the expense right now. Either way, it seems like it's not a config issue I have created if you are seeing the same behaviour.

On the plus side, importing new guide data is super quick. Manually importing 14 days worth of guide data takes seconds. I have previously dabbled with Mediaportal and that was abysmal with guide imports. Running the same guide data import would take over 45 minutes each time and whilst running, Mediaportal server could not be used as it was hung which is a known issue with that solution, so things could definitely be worse!

[Yaobing]

We will be looking for ways to speed this up.

[konkeydong75]

@Yaobing,

I have just upgraded to 30.0.63 and this has made a world of difference with the hangs experienced when changing sub-groups in the guide now. It's gone from between 3-5 seconds to just under a second.

Great work!

[Yaobing]

Thanks for reporting back.  It was good that I found where the bottle neck was.  Once that was eliminated, everything is much faster.  As for your channel group filters, i.e.

Code: [Select]

[=TVInfo(ChannelKeywords)&DataType=[list]]=[KEYWORD]
I tried without much success to speed this up, but it is turned out fine after I found the major bottle neck (an unnecessary sorting of all programs) and as long as you don't have a extremely huge number of channels (i.e. more than a couple of thousands, most people don't).