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[M!ke]

I have just started using MC and one feature I like is 'Display Lyrics' but it does not seem to work as I expect.

When I play an album the first song will indeed display lyrics. However all the following songs do not display lyrics unless I deselect/reselect 'Display Lyrics' for each song as it plays.

Is this a bug or a feature or have I misunderstood how it should work?

[HPBEME]

It only displays lyrics if there are lyrics in the lyric tag.  If you look at the lyric tag for songs where no lyrics are displayed, my guess is the lyrics tag is empty.

As you may or may not be aware, MC automatically looks up lyrics when you import files (assuming it is configured in the auto-import settings), but that is not a guarantee it will find lyrics.  You may have to use other tools external to MC, or browse for them yourself manually and then copy/paste them into the lyrics tag.

Here is a free lyrics program I use when MC is unable to locate any: https://www.mediahuman.com/lyrics-finder/
Still no guarantee it will find missing lyrics, but it does find more lyrics than the built-in MC tool does.

[HPBEME]

I just reread your post -nevermind! My previous response doesn't apply. I will still leave the post since it may help other people reading this thread.

In any case, your issue is you have to toggle the context menu display lyrics for them to show in each subsequent song... hmm... can't say I've ever encountered that one.  That said, shutting down MC, including the server if you're running it, fixes many oddball issues.  And of course the general solution of rebooting your computer is next easy option.

[HPBEME]

Last thought: if you are playing songs right after they are imported, JRiver is doing the lookup in real-time, and toggling the lyrics display on/off refreshes it and shows them after they were successfully found maybe?

[M!ke]

Thanks, I tried rebooting server and client but still the same.

I don't use playlists generally but as a further test I tried loading a new album (a 70s hits compilation album) to play next after one of the tracks in the current album playing. As before the first track of the new album displays lyrics but none of the following unless I toggle 'Display Lyrics'.

Pure speculation but maybe queries to the lyrics database for subsequent tracks are formatted differently/wrong or timeout (I'm outside the US)?

[HPBEME]

I believe "Lookup Lyrics" simply browses certain lyric sites in the background, and if it finds a match, it populates the lyrics tag.  I don't think JRiver maintains a lyrics database, but I am not 100% positive about that, so if someone knows otherwise, please correct me.

Your speculation about formatting or timing out for countries outside the US, I have no idea.  For me personally (I am in the US), as long as the lyrics tag is populated, MC displays them for every song as long as "display lyrics" is selected from the playing now context menu (no toggling required ), whether it's in a playlist or I'm randomly playing my entire library, or choose a single song on the fly.

Hopefully somebody else will chime in with other possible resolutions.

[M!ke]

So maybe I don't understand how 'Display Lyrics' functions?

Over the years I have tagged my .flac files (using Mp3Tag) and have never used a 'Lyrics' tag.

I had assumed those tags are static and are not changed by JRiver MC but rather JRiver MC accesses an online database dynamically to supply lyrics on demand.

But I may be wrong!

[HPBEME]

When you are able to play a song that shows lyrics, have you looked at the lyrics tag while it is playing (and afterword for that matter), and if so, is it empty?  If it is empty, I wonder where is it getting the lyrics from?

You are correct that the lyrics tags is static, but MC will populate an empty tag, or overwrite an existing tag, if you initiate the lookup lyrics tool (assuming it finds a match).  Again, I could be wrong, but I would be shocked if MC maintained their own lyric database that was doing live lookups each time any song is played.

[EnglishTiger]

When search for lyrics is enabled, either automatically or manually, MC polls through a handful of Lyrics Providers until it finds one that contains a set of the required lyrics, but if it does it while  track is playing the lyrics it has just found will not be displayed because the Display Panel is only loaded when the track starts playing.
Pressing the refresh button while the track is playing may cause the lyrics to be displayed.

However one thing you should be aware of thanks to most lyrics provider sites using things like lyricfinder the lyrics MC finds may be incomplete or incorrectly formed. Unfortunately the only way of making sure you are getting complete and properly formed lyrics is to search for them manually.

[HPBEME]

but if it does it while  track is playing the lyrics it has just found will not be displayed because the Display Panel is only loaded when the track starts playing. Pressing the refresh button while the track is playing may cause the lyrics to be displayed.

Yep… That's exactly what I was thinking Might be the case when I said this…

f you are playing songs right after they are imported, JRiver is doing the lookup in real-time, and toggling the lyrics display on/off refreshes it and shows them after they were successfully found maybe?

The OP's original question remains however, that is, it displays lyrics for the initial song, but all subsequent songs he has to toggle display lyrics on and off to get them to show. Still waiting to find out if the OP's lyrics tag are filled or empty.  Based on his last reply, it sounds like they may be empty - not sure as his answer was somewhat ambiguous.  And if the tag is empty, I have no idea how lyrics are displayed at all.  Any ideas on that ET?

[markf2748]

Unfortunately the only way of making sure you are getting complete and properly formed lyrics is to search for them manually.

That's a good starting point for copy/pasting text into the Lyrics tag, but it's a rare day when any downloaded lyrics are 100% accurate, and many are quite bad.  At least that is my experience with free lyrics databases such as Genius, Absolute Lyrics, Song Meanings, and Musixmatch.  Lyrics published in a CD leaflet are usually close, but even they sometimes need correcting, or have omissions, when compared to hearing the actual song (Taylor Swift's lyrics are one notable exception for the most part).  MC's tag editor is great for making real time revisions.

BTW, there is a tag called [Last Lyrics Lookup] which I have never payed any attention to, but may be useful in the OP's issue context?  Mine is typically "No lookup", since I access the databases manually through the MC RMB Links menu.

I always select the box for Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields... > Lyrics > Save in file tags (when possible).  In principle this should not be necessary, but maybe MC does something funky if this box is unchecked?  When checked, it's important that the music folder be writable.

[M!ke]

OK, I've been inspecting the tags for the Lyrics field, firstly using Mp3tag.

As expected, none of my files have the Lyrics field by default. The files that do have the field (and populated) are the first tracks in an album I've played in MC. However any other tracks where I have toggled 'Display Lyrics' to show the lyrics have not saved a Lyrics field.

I also inspected the tags using MC and while the Lyrics field is there it is also blank apart from those first album tracks.

I always select the box for Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields... > Lyrics > Save in file tags (when possible).

- this was selected when I checked though I don't remember doing it, so maybe by default?

I have also now selected the Last Lyrics Lookup option to save and that appears to work when I toggle the 'Display Lyric'.

For the moment though not sure what else to try...

 

[markf2748]

I have also now selected the Last Lyrics Lookup option to save and that appears to work when I toggle the 'Display Lyric'.

I just tried MC's RMB on track > Library Tools > Lookup Lyrics... individually for each track on an album.  The text was surprisingly accurate when MC found lyrics.  But on the album I tested it only found lyrics for about half the tracks (scattered through the album).  In every case, lyrics found or not, the lookup time was recorded in the field [Last Lyrics Lookup].  I then searched manually for some of the missing lyrics, and did not find any exact matches in the free databases I mentioned above.  However, in some cases, lyrics for the same song by a different artist on a different album were available, which I copy/pasted into the Lyrics tag as a decent starting point for real time editing.

So my guess is that MC simply does not find many lyrics for tracks on your tested albums.  Apparently the time in [Last Lyrics Lookup] shows it tried, but success/failure is only indicated by whether or not [Lyrics] is populated, and hence displayed.

I wonder if there is an access limit (# of lyrics returned per album) imposed by MC's lyrics lookup?  Maybe (?) this is still in effect:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118858.msg912619.html#msg912619

Have you tried a very popular pop or jazz album, one where you might expect MC's lookup to find all lyrics?
Have you played with Library Tools > Lookup Lyrics... ?

BTW, a foolproof method to detect lyrics in the file directly is to open it up in a text editor such as Notepad++.  It will be very apparent when lyrics are saved in the file header.

[M!ke]

So my guess is that MC simply does not find many lyrics for tracks on your tested albums.

- thanks, I had thought that might be an issue.

One album I have that would seem to be a good test is the Beatles '1' album. MC finds and populates the lyrics correctly for the first track and, as before, only that track. And, as before, if I toggle 'Display Lyrics' it will find them for the other tracks and now that I have set the 'Last Lyric Lookup' option will also save to the Lyrics field.

I tried the MC RMB as you suggested and that seems to work also and be an easier way of doing the same thing.

[markf2748]

One album I have that would seem to be a good test is the Beatles '1' album. MC finds and populates the lyrics correctly for the first track and, as before, only that track. And, as before, if I toggle 'Display Lyrics' it will find them for the other tracks and now that I have set the 'Last Lyric Lookup' option will also save to the Lyrics field.

I tried the MC RMB as you suggested and that seems to work also and be an easier way of doing the same thing.

Are you careful not to select/highlight only the first track?  Multiple selections should work, at least up to some max number perhaps.  For example, just click on the album cover in the upper Content Panel of a view, which by mysterious magical implication selects all of the album's tracks (even though they are not highlighted in the track list below).  Then try the lyrics lookup by RMB menu on the album cover.

I am not sure what you mean by setting the 'Last Lyric Lookup' option..  It is a built-in field, which shows up in the Tree's tag pane as expected.  The options menu search bar does not turn up anything by that name.

[M!ke]

I am not sure what you mean by setting the 'Last Lyric Lookup' option..

- there is a check box for 'Save in file tags (when possible)' and I checked that.

So when I play an album for the first time it is by selecting 'Play' for the album, the first track in the Playing Now window is selected automatically and the Lyrics tag populates for that track only.

...and now I'm not sure what you mean by clicking on the album cover as I can't seem to find a lyrics lookup option there...

[HPBEME]

MC will only look up 10 tracks at a time, if you select more than that it will generate a message saying that "This tool is only allowed to run on up to 10 files at a time".  The frustrating thing when that happens is that MC doesn't look up the first 10 you selected and ignore the rest.  Instead, you have to reselect tracks making sure you do not choose more than 10.

You should make sure your auto import settings has the checkbox for Lookup Lyrics ticked, that way any future music imports will automatically have lyrics searched for without any need for you to do anything (though obviously it won't find lyrics for all of them). I have personally had good luck with the quality of the lyrics downloaded using the MC tool.  If I notice errors I correct them on the fly as I'm listening to a song.  Lyrics with errors is better than no lyrics at all.

For those tracks that MC does not find lyrics for, the best site I have found with a huge number of high quality lyrics is AZLyrics: https://www.azlyrics.com/
You have to be careful on this site however: if you download lyrics for too many songs rapidly, it will ban your URL from using their site.  MC used to use this site for 1 of its lookup options, but users were understandably submitting many songs at once and getting their URL banned, so JRiver dropped it (at least that's my recollection).

This can be avoided automatically however by using the free program I provided in an earlier post: LyricsFinder, which uses AZLyrics (among others) and you can submit 20, 100, or 1000 songs simultaneously.  The program automatically submits only 10 songs at a time, which apparently prevents AZLyrics from banning you.  At least it has never been a problem for me for the last 8+ years that I have been using it.  I should note that I do use VPN that rotates my URL regularly, but that wouldn't matter if I'm trying to grab lyrics for 100+ songs in a given session, which I have done many times.

[HPBEME]

...and now I'm not sure what you mean by clicking on the album cover as I can't seem to find a lyrics lookup option there...

if you right-click on an album thumbnail, go to library tools in the context menu first, and lookup lyrics will be in the submenu.

[M!ke]

Thanks, that works (sort of!).

I played Adele '21' and track 1 populated as before leaving exactly 10 tracks with no lyrics. So I selected the other 10 and 'Look Up Lyrics', and all but Track 4 came back. Tried doing Track 4 by itself, still nothing, so for some reason that track does not have its lyrics databased?!

Anyway, thanks, it gives me a path forward. I did notice I had not checked the 'Lookup Lyrics' option in Auto-import though it is still odd that Track 1 (only) on my albums have been showing lyrics anyway. 

[HPBEME]

I guess I'm still not clear as to how you import albums. Do you use the setting to automatically import music when played? It sounds like maybe you do (note text in red)

So when I play an album for the first time it is by selecting 'Play' for the album, the first track in the Playing Now window is selected automatically and the Lyrics tag populates for that track only.

Is toggling display lyrics required even after the entire album is auto imported? For example, do you ever paste an album into a folder that MC monitors without immediately playing the album?  Next time you add a new album to your music folder, don't immediately launch play (from MC, and definitely not Windows Explorer).  Instead, find the album in MC, but do not play it. That album has now been imported properly, and any songs MC found lyrics for will have lyrics in the lyrics tag (now that you've configured it for looking up lyrics upon import).  If it has lyrics in multiple files, and it still only displays lyrics for the 1st track of the album, and you have to toggle display lyrics for the remaining tracks to show them, then I am baffled. You are likely the only user experiencing this bizarre behavior.

I played Adele '21' and track 1 populated as before leaving exactly 10 tracks with no lyrics. So I selected the other 10 and 'Look Up Lyrics', and all but Track 4 came back. Tried doing Track 4 by itself, still nothing, so for some reason that track does not have its lyrics databased?!

Lyrics are crowd-sourced, so popular songs by popular artists are more likely to have lyrics available somewhere on the Internet.  If one site doesn't have a given songs lyrics, another site might. I don't know how many sites MC searches, but there are hundreds of lyrics sites and I am quite certain MC only searches a handful.

To be clear, MC does not maintain a lyrics database.  It simply looks on the Internet and tries to find a match for the artist and song. Just because you have looked up (and found) lyrics for a specific song does NOT mean they have now been saved for everyone else to access.  Lyrics lookup is a per user tool.  I think it would be illegal for MC to maintain such a database due to copyright issues.

[EnglishTiger]

The fact that MC only managed to find the lyrics for the OP's Beatles 1 Album, given the 27 tracks are the Beatles Singles that made it to the #1 spot in the UK charts, is a bit odd but there is probably a very simple explanation for it - wrongly formatted track names an/or artist names.

This is a list of the Correct Track Names for the tracks on the Beatles 1 Album and MC should always find the Lyrics as they are all on one of the sites it searches:-
Love Me Do
From Me to You
She Loves You
I Want to Hold Your Hand
Can't Buy Me Love
A Hard Day's Night
I Feel Fine
Eight Days a Week
Ticket to Ride
Help!
Yesterday
Day Tripper
We Can Work It Out
Paperback Writer
Yellow Submarine
Eleanor Rigby
Penny Lane
All You Need Is Love
Hello, Goodbye
Lady Madonna
Hey Jude
Get Back
The Ballad of John and Yoko
Something
Come Together
Let It Be
The Long and Winding Road

These 4 wrongly formatted Track Names will always fail to find a match:-
Get Back (Single Version)
Get Back (Single Version) (ft. Billy Preston}
Something (2001 Remaster)
Let It Be (Single Version)

But these 3 correctly formatted alternative Track Names will usually find a match:-
Get Back [Single Version]
Something [2001 Remaster]
Let It Be [Single Version]

This one may also find a match:- Get Back [Single Version ft. Billy Preston] even though putting a featured artists name inside the track name is non-standard.

Most Lyrics Lookup Sites are set up to ignore anything in the track name that is inside square brackets i.e. if fed Get Back [Single Version] it will only use Get Back as the track name and the search will have a better chance of success.
But it will never find a match for any track that has incorrectly formatted track names i.e. Get Back (Single Version) or Something (2001 Remaster).
Incidentally any double or single quotes that are not the straight ones " or ' in a track name will also fail to find a match.

For the benefit of those wondering what the Last Lyrics Lookup field records it simply stores the date on which MC, when triggered Automatically or Manually, carried out a search for the Lyrics for a given track regardless of whether or not it found the lyrics.

There is a limit to the number of tracks that MC can do a "bulk search for lyrics" on, it used to be 12 but I think it has since been reduced to a maximum of 6 tracks.
Mainly down to the simple fact that some Lyrics Lookup Sites allow unlimited access to Humans but restrict the number of times a "search bot" can access the site in a given, usually short, time frame. In addition some sites, and it's not just Lyrics Lookup Sites, can and do limit the amount of metadata a "search bot" can extract.

Incidentally there is another reason why a lyrics lookup may fail that is often overlooked, lyrics lookup sites can only provide those lyrics they are licensed for and there are tracks for which the publisher, usually the Record Company, have never granted a licence to reproduce them.

@M!ke - To get MC to search for and display the lyrics for the track you are playing the CoverArt + Lyrics option should remain selected and never toggled - if MC finds the lyrics it will switch from displaying only the CoverArt to displaying the CoverArt + Lyrics, so if it fails to switch that is proof that MC failed to find the lyrics on any of the sites it searches; either because they are not present or there is something wrong with either the track Name or the Artist name. Unfortunately after correcting either of them inside MC you will have to use the Right-Click Library Tools >> Lookup Lyrics... Option to get it to do a new search on that particular track or wait until the next time it gets played in MC.

@markf2748 - when choosing lyrics by a different artist I hope you are checking to see that both tracks have the same composer and/or lyricist because it's not unusual to find that several artists have recorded tracks with the same track Name but were not written by the same composer and/or lyricist. Something a lot of the well meaning contributors to lyrics lookup website often fail to do.

[markf2748]

@ET Whoa! Thanks so much for all this valuable information! 

@markf2748 - when choosing lyrics by a different artist I hope you are checking to see that both tracks have the same composer and/or lyricist because it's not unusual to find that several artists have recorded tracks with the same track Name but were not written by the same composer and/or lyricist. Something a lot of the well meaning contributors to lyrics lookup website often fail to do.

In every case, I always carefully check and edit whatever lyrics I download against the actual song I'm listening to.  But the job could sometimes get easier per your warnings about names, composers, and lyricists. 

Re (...) vs [...] in names, I wonder if MC itself also automatically removes [...] prior to lyrics search, while it leaves (...) alone?  I thought that was mentioned some time ago in the thread I cited above (Reply #12).

BTW, personally I tend to avoid auto-import of lyrics because I put significant effort into editing my own versions and want absolutely minimum risk of ever overwriting them, especially a "silent" overwrite.  Also, I rip at most just a few CDs at a time - no mega imports - which reduces the burden of manual import.

Anyhow, the biggest lesson I've learned in this long thread is to actually try MC's lyrics lookup facility first.  I am surprised to find how close it comes in many cases, which already this evening saved me a lot of work.  When MC turns up empty I am also finding @HPBEME's recommendation of MediaHuman's LyricsFinder can be helpful  (~95% correct for found lyrics so far).  Thanks all.

[M!ke]

I guess I'm still not clear as to how you import albums. Do you use the setting to automatically import music when played?

So I was referring to the initial import of my existing 40k tracks into MC when I first started using it about a month ago and subsequently played albums for the first time using MC. I've only imported a couple of classical (no lyrics) albums since.

The fact that MC only managed to find the lyrics for the OP's Beatles 1 Album, given the 27 tracks are the Beatles Singles that made it to the #1 spot in the UK charts, is a bit odd but there is probably a very simple explanation for it - wrongly formatted track names an/or artist names.

The track names in my library are normally as listed on the original album - the album names however can be modified to identify remasters/remixes. Album artist/artist names are a whole other issue - to fix The Beatles or The Rolling Stones so they're not both listed under 'The' means that De La Soul is now listed under Soul!

@M!ke - To get MC to search for and display the lyrics for the track you are playing the CoverArt + Lyrics option should remain selected and never toggled so if it fails to switch that is proof that MC failed to find the lyrics on any of the sites it searches; either because they are not present or there is something wrong with either the track Name or the Artist name

- which is what I was thinking too but given MC will find the missing lyrics for tracks other than track 1 when toggled seems to suggest some other issue?

[M!ke]

Just a final word by way of a thank you to all who replied.

It took a while but eventually the penny dropped! Because I was unaware of the 'Lyrics' tag I had assumed 'Display Lyrics' was querying a database online via MC to source lyrics each and every time a track played. Once I started monitoring the 'Tag' panel and using 'Lookup Lyrics' it started to make more sense.

BTW, when I came to 'Lookup Lyrics' on the Beatles '1' album ironically 'Help!' did not return lyrics - but 'Help' did! It appears non-alpha characters in song names is an issue for the database(s).

As to why some of my albums had lyrics on the first track only, don't know but at least
i can fix that now.