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Atmos
slerch666:
--- Quote from: hvac on June 09, 2024, 12:52:04 pm ---Are the spacial sounds, stems then created? From sounds post production? So these sounds can be made to come from above the listener even though they weren’t recorded above. And the spacial sound, it’s like a computer generated video only involving sound.
How do you know all this stuff? I don’t find it in the lay press. Thanks again.
--- End quote ---
You didn't ask me but I know all this stuff because it is my hobby and I have dug deep when necessary. Knowing what to search for is more important than how to search.
For older films, it all depends on what format they have available to them.
If all they have is a "flat" file in stereo, fully encoded, there are some things that can be done to fake positional data but the results will range from a rank turd up to OK. Very rarely would they be able to craft an Amazing positional audio track from a fully mixed and finalized file.
If they have a separate Music and Effects mix track/reel (this would be a Stem as well), with a separate dialog tape, they can get some OK spatial results that way too. Think of it as when they mixed Star Wars, they created a stereo track with no dialog but all M&E and squirreled that away. Then when the Japanese language needs to be added, they take the mixed M&E track and layer in the Japanese dialog. Same for any other language they record. They would use production notes to match the timing of dialog and watch lip flaps to try to get audio timing close if needed.
Think of Stems as the building blocks of an audio mix. When a film is... filmed... they have microphones setup to capture dialog (and mics on actors possibly if needed) and each of those microphones is a discrete audio file, recorded as their own separate file. Each of those files could be considered Stems. Stems could also be mixed sounds in their own audio file. Then sound effects, like punches, kicks, jet engines, etc would be individual audio files as well (Stems). Because they exist as individual files, they can be placed in time and space within a Dolby ATMOS workstation (or Auro 3D or DTS:X). The positional data is saved as part of the Dolby ATMOS enhancement layer.
If they have the stems, even if they are mixed together (think about how The Beatles would get 8+ tracks of music using multiple 4 track decks) they can place those sounds in a 3D space. THe 3D Space is a 3D rendering of a square room in a Dolby ATMOS workstation. They would place those stems, as objects, within this 3D rendering, which ATMOS on your receiver will use to calculate "where" to play a sound or music que within your ATMOS enabled room. The WHEN of playing the que is part of the standard 7.1/5.1 mix which is why there is no data added in the enhancement layer, just positional data for your ATMOS system to apply an algorithm to and play the WHERE.
For music, it is the same. Each instrument in a modern studio is recorded on an individual track (which is how it was done on tape as well for the most part, except where things like 4 tracks limited a mix and instead you got mixed tracks on a reel that fed into the main 4 channel mixer). Those tracks are stems that make up the final Stereo or ATMOS mix.
In this case, the positional audio is created in the same Dolby ATMOS workstation environment and placed all around the room and zipped over and above and under as needed. This data can be read out as standard Stereo but buying a stereo only mix is likely a better option if you don't want the ATMOS version of a track.
In terms of the how, you can use Youtube to further educate yourself. You say there is no information available but there are lots of videos that go over Dolby Audio and how it is created. I don't know that you would get the answer to any very, very specific questions you have but if you ask a Youtube channel creator directly you may just get exactly what you are looking for.
In fact, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upG87FrDtMI, the Dolby ATMOS Music Creation 101 series is a good place to start. Not the most technically informative but is a decent enough overview and will allow you to figure out what you don't know, which should then allow you to feed that back into Youtube to get videos that give you what you want.
slerch666:
--- Quote from: hvac on June 09, 2024, 10:28:44 am ---Sorry I thought of another question. How does a flat 2D recording, microphones all in the plane, become 3D? I don’t think that data manipulation can do that can it?
--- End quote ---
If the recording is its own file, the sound engineer can place it in a 3D representation of a room, anywhere they want it.
When it is mixed for authoring that data is encoded and your receiver reads that layer out during playback.
When you think about objects, those would ideally be stems (or individual audio files). The engineer would "place" the object in the 3D rendered room in the Dolby ATMOS workstation, and would then tell it where and when to place those sounds. The trajectory of a sound, think of a bullet shot from the left front that travels to the right rear, is calculated and during playback, based on the ATMOS layer (meta data) it calculates, based on what speakers you have setup in your personal system, where and when to play the sound.
If you have a 7.1.4 Dolby configured system, your receiver would calculate and determine when and from which speakers to play a sound to give you the feeling of spatial audio. When your receiver can't do ATMOS is reads the standard 7.1 mix and plays it that way, with no spatial direction included just as it would in your old 5.1 home theater etc.
If you want to know more, seriously check Youtube. So many experts and enthusiasts have an over abundance of information to share.
slerch666:
And HVAC, you don't really tell us what your setup looks like. If you haven't enabled ATMOS speakers in your receiver, the spatial data will "play" the objects but would likely end up sounding like the non-spatial enabled 7.1/5.1 mixes.
If you need/want to know how to setup your room, check out Dolby's setup guides:
https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/
JimH:
--- Quote from: slerch666 on June 10, 2024, 09:36:12 am ---If you want to know more, seriously check Youtube. So many experts and enthusiasts have an over abundance of information to share.
--- End quote ---
Ha ha!
hvac:
--- Quote from: slerch666 on June 10, 2024, 09:20:12 am ---
You didn't ask me but I know all this stuff because it is my hobby and I have dug deep when necessary. Knowing what to search for is more important than how to search.
For older films, it all depends on what format they have available to them.
If all they have is a "flat" file in stereo, fully encoded, there are some things that can be done to fake positional data but the results will range from a rank turd up to OK. Very rarely would they be able to craft an Amazing positional audio track from a fully mixed and finalized file.
If they have a separate Music and Effects mix track/reel (this would be a Stem as well), with a separate dialog tape, they can get some OK spatial results that way too. Think of it as when they mixed Star Wars, they created a stereo track with no dialog but all M&E and squirreled that away. Then when the Japanese language needs to be added, they take the mixed M&E track and layer in the Japanese dialog. Same for any other language they record. They would use production notes to match the timing of dialog and watch lip flaps to try to get audio timing close if needed.
Think of Stems as the building blocks of an audio mix. When a film is... filmed... they have microphones setup to capture dialog (and mics on actors possibly if needed) and each of those microphones is a discrete audio file, recorded as their own separate file. Each of those files could be considered Stems. Stems could also be mixed sounds in their own audio file. Then sound effects, like punches, kicks, jet engines, etc would be individual audio files as well (Stems). Because they exist as individual files, they can be placed in time and space within a Dolby ATMOS workstation (or Auro 3D or DTS:X). The positional data is saved as part of the Dolby ATMOS enhancement layer.
If they have the stems, even if they are mixed together (think about how The Beatles would get 8+ tracks of music using multiple 4 track decks) they can place those sounds in a 3D space. THe 3D Space is a 3D rendering of a square room in a Dolby ATMOS workstation. They would place those stems, as objects, within this 3D rendering, which ATMOS on your receiver will use to calculate "where" to play a sound or music que within your ATMOS enabled room. The WHEN of playing the que is part of the standard 7.1/5.1 mix which is why there is no data added in the enhancement layer, just positional data for your ATMOS system to apply an algorithm to and play the WHERE.
For music, it is the same. Each instrument in a modern studio is recorded on an individual track (which is how it was done on tape as well for the most part, except where things like 4 tracks limited a mix and instead you got mixed tracks on a reel that fed into the main 4 channel mixer). Those tracks are stems that make up the final Stereo or ATMOS mix.
In this case, the positional audio is created in the same Dolby ATMOS workstation environment and placed all around the room and zipped over and above and under as needed. This data can be read out as standard Stereo but buying a stereo only mix is likely a better option if you don't want the ATMOS version of a track.
In terms of the how, you can use Youtube to further educate yourself. You say there is no information available but there are lots of videos that go over Dolby Audio and how it is created. I don't know that you would get the answer to any very, very specific questions you have but if you ask a Youtube channel creator directly you may just get exactly what you are looking for.
In fact, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upG87FrDtMI, the Dolby ATMOS Music Creation 101 series is a good place to start. Not the most technically informative but is a decent enough overview and will allow you to figure out what you don't know, which should then allow you to feed that back into Youtube to get videos that give you what you want.
--- End quote ---
I understand this question may not be answered due to my delay. But if it does get answered, I would like to ask two more question. How is the DD or DTS 7.1.channel different from the Atmos one? As I assume my DVD player will not decode Atmos? Is there a subcarrier?
Also why does the Atmos signal indicator on my Denon light up most every time I watch a streaming video? It sounds like “grade inflation” to me.
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