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[afss_br]

Hello, up to yesterday I have been using JRiver MC32 as a pure HDR/SDR passthrough player to my JVC NZ8 projector – There are several features I like a lot such as JRVR Chroma upscaling as well as resolution upscaling capabilities – I have been enjoying a lot the overall picture quality.

This week I decided to try JRVR HDR to SDR tone mapping/conversion (while keeping BT2020 colorspace) and I was impressed with the much better results JRiver provided, specially on picture highlights which many times got crushed with JVCs internal tonemapping (and yes, I have the latest JVC firmware installed, which improved things a little bit).

Even though I selected SDR/BT2020 on JRVR and the signal content was being sent as such, I had to manually switch the projector to colorspace BT2020 – This JVC NZ series has been really good on auto-detecting HDR/SDR and their respective colorspaces, and switching to the proper user settings, but on this specific scenario (JRVR SDR/BT2020), the projector correctly switched to SDR, but stayed on BT709 colorspace. I am not sure if JRVR is not sending the BT2020 flag over the HDMI signal path for the projector to detect, or JVC does simply ignore this flag when the input is SDR.

Please, I would appreciate any thoughts on other users that have JVC NZ series, on how (if possible at all) they have automated JRiver's SDR/BT2020 output. Worst case scenario I will have to always switch it manually, but maybe there is something I am missing to do to make it automatic.

[Manni]

JVC is ignoring the BT2020 flag, despite repeated requests to do so. You have two ways around this:

1) Get a HD Fury device (I was using a VRROOM with my NZ8) and use it to change calibration mode. That’s a feature I developed and helped HD Fury to implement at the time of the horrible gamma D in the JVCs, but it also works fine to select a calibration when the HTPC sends SDR BT2020. You’ll just need to get a RS232 cable if the cable coming with the HD fury isn’t long enough.

2) Set the PJ so that the auto mode change in the JVC changes to a user HDR mode (4-6) where you have uploaded a custom gamma curve that’s a gamma and not a PQ curve. If you haven’t created/uploaded custom curves yet (you can use the JVC Autocal software or a few DOS tools), simply selecting “custom” for gamma in one of the HDR modes makes it 2.2, so you just have to report to JRVR that your display is already calibrated to gamma 2.2. PQ is absolute, so the value of gamma doesn’t matter as long as the renderer knows what it is. The main downside is that you can’t automatically switch to a proper HDR mode, you’ll have the reverse issue.

I definitely recommend the VRROOM way if you have the budget and can run the RS-323 cable. It’s a fantastic diagnostic tools, allows you to add LLDV support with non-DV compatible displays, make older devices work, see what happens with metadata and other info… With the VRROOM, make sure you use FW 0.36 as with any FW above that the JVC macro feature is broken.

I don’t have my NZ8 anymore, so if you have any issues I suggest you post in the HD fury device thread you purchase on AVS Forums and quote user @claw, he has a JVC and is using the HD Fury JVC macro feature, I’m sure he’ll be able to help.

Good luck!

[Hendrik]

Note that you can't actually set a BT.2020 SDR flag on Windows in a generic manner, Direct3D that is used for presenting the image to the screen does not allow that. There is vendor-specific workarounds, but we try to not engage with those, as its a deep rabbit hole of misery.

[Manni]

Note that you can't actually set a BT.2020 SDR flag on Windows in a generic manner, Direct3D that is used for presenting the image to the screen does not allow that. There is vendor-specific workarounds, but we try to not engage with those, as its a deep rabbit hole of misery.

True, the OP would have to use madVR instead of JRVR as only madVR has the ability to set the BT2020 flag with nVidia GPU and to set the HDR flag without sending HDR. I thought about this after posting but I was enjoying the sun in my garden and forgot to edit my post, so thanks for reminding me

Using one of the JVC HDR user modes is the best way ahead if the OP doesn't want to use an external device, as long as JRVR can report HDR even when sending SDR BT2020. Can it? Otherwise, madVR with an nVidia GPU is the only option unfortunately, irrespective of the preferred way to achieve this. I'm using JRVR now, so my memory of madVR is getting more and more distant each day.

As far as the deep rabbit hole of misery is concerned, unfortunately it's true as soon as you use a HTPC, it doesn't really matter in which way. The number of bugs, issues etc is really offputting compared to using a dedicated source, so not engaging with these sadly doesn't prevent this. But a HTPC has some advantages too, otherwise we wouldn't put up with this, so hey ho

[afss_br]

Thank you all for your inputs! much appreciated - will experiment with those options.

[murray]

I'm using JRVR now, so my memory of madVR is getting more and more distant each day.

Manni its good to see you are using JRVR now full time instead of madvr PC, I made that change a year or so ago. We need people like you who have alot of "know how" using JRVR, the more the better....

I know this is a bit off topic here but I wanted your opinion please....
Do you use the sharpening tool on JRVR at all?
I personally find it very limited compared to the many assorted sharpening tools that madvr PC has.

[Manni]

Manni its good to see you are using JRVR now full time instead of madvr PC, I made that change a year or so ago. We need people like you who have alot of "know how" using JRVR, the more the better....

I know this is a bit off topic here but I wanted your opinion please....
Do you use the sharpening tool on JRVR at all?
I personally find it very limited compared to the many assorted sharpening tools that madvr PC has.

Hi Murray. I moved to JRVR because I’m now tonemapping to HDR with a peak of 1,050nits, and JRVR has resolved most of the brightness stability issues that I reported, unlike madVR (not that they would be present at 1,000+ nits peak). There are just too many issues with madVR that will never be fixed, so it’s nice to have a supported rendered.

Finally, I don’t need to shift the picture up for single black bar masking in real time anymore, and that was one of the last things that tied me to madVR, along with 3D LUT capability (now available in JRVR) or the need to switch to a SDR BT2020 calibration in the PJ with the VRROOM. JRVR has made great progress over the last two years, but if I was using a projector I might not have made the jump for all the reasons above.

To answer your question, I don’t use sharpening as I like to watch content as it is, warts and all. I didn’t use sharpening with madVR either. But then again, I have now a 77” QD OLED (hence why I don’t need masking anymore), so sharpening isn’t really needed, even at 50 deg FOV. I could use sharpening in the TV, but most of the content I watched is native 4K or upscaled bluray, so I don’t feel the need for it and I have sharpening at zero in the TV too. When I have to watch a DVD once in a blue moon, well, it is what it is… You could try using sharpening in the JVC if you wanted to add some and are not happy with the JRVR sharpening options.

[murray]

To answer your question, I don’t use sharpening as I like to watch content as it is, warts and all. I didn’t use sharpening with madVR either. But then again, I have now a 77” QD OLED (hence why I don’t need masking anymore), so sharpening isn’t really needed, even at 50 deg FOV. I could use sharpening in the TV, but most of the content I watched is native 4K or upscaled bluray, so I don’t feel the need for it and I have sharpening at zero in the TV too. When I have to watch a DVD once in a blue moon, well, it is what it is… You could try using sharpening in the JVC if you wanted to add some and are not happy with the JRVR sharpening options.

Great stuff. I'm pleasee you are happy with JRVR and have moved away from madvr PC like me.

I do find sharpening is needed on my large 150" scope curved screen (not on my 55" oleds), madvr was wonderful for sharpening as it had so many varible controls. However I do find the sharpening on JRVR lacking and a bit crude, so much of it adds artifacts all over the place. I wish Hendrik would refine sharpening and create something similar to the Envy or madvrPC. ----- Infact Ive gone back to using sharpening on the JVC NZ9, just +3 Enhance as it doesn't add any artifacts. In the years of using madvrPC I never needed to use any sharpening on the proj as madvr did all I needed.

I say to anyone who might want to use sharpening from JRVR that you must use it very very low and certainly not up to the range of 200 where it goes up to. I think max of 50 is more than plenty.

Sorry for derailing the thread but it was nice to see you here.