More > JRiver Media Center 33 for Windows
NEW: Present Queue for JRVR Video Renderer
masterjoe:
The new render queue is a very nice addition!
However there is still one problem left to have fully smooth video presentations:
-> How to evenly align the video frame rate with the video driver's refresh frame rate?
Because the driver's frame rate most of the time is not a multiple of the video's frame rate. Hence, they do not really match.
I have seen image jerking (slightly stuttering) as a regular pattern due to this fact. So the video stutters almost every second but in between these hickups it is smooth.
Would producing blended frames help to prevent these stutters? Because showing the same frame twice SOMETIMES produces an irregular playback timing.
While the queue ensures best timing and clean frame swapping there still needs something to be done to align the display refresh with the video's frame rate.
Maybe interpolation / blending might help to evenly distribute the rendered video images across time to prevent any stuttering at all.
Hendrik:
--- Quote from: terrym@tassie on August 26, 2024, 09:12:24 pm ---I have recently upgraded my Nvidia 1060 to a 4060 and have encountered a driver issue with JRVR.
I get no frame drops at all with JRVR/Videoclock with the 1060 with any version of the Nvidia driver.
I get frame drops with the 4060 with any driver greater than 537.58 (including the latest 560.94).
The frame drops are more pronounced on 50 fps material but to put them in perspective there are only generally about 1-2 drops per hour (but can be more).
Using the 4060 with the 537.58 driver I can play a 3-hour 50 fps video without any frame drops (Present Queue enabled).
I've attached a log showing the issue FYI (the drops always look like the one shown in the attached log) and would be grateful if Hendrik could have a quick look to identify what is happening.
--- End quote ---
I saw one such occurrence in the log, and it seems like a typical "glitch", as the Microsoft documentation calls it. A frame was shown for longer then intended, and as a result JRVR had to drop a frame to compensate.
There is nothing we can do once it already happened other then what we are doing to keep audio/video sync.
I can't really say why the driver difference causes that, there could be numerous reasons, from different support for MPO (multi-plane overlay, eg. how the Windows desktop is put together), from timing glitches inside the driver. Its always been a constant struggle with NVIDIA.
I'm actually looking forward to Intels Battlemage graphics cards, they might make good dedicated video playback cards.
Dedicated video playback has unfortunately been long neglected by all the manufacturers.
Hendrik:
--- Quote from: masterjoe on August 27, 2024, 03:00:12 am ---The new render queue is a very nice addition!
However there is still one problem left to have fully smooth video presentations:
-> How to evenly align the video frame rate with the video driver's refresh frame rate?
Because the driver's frame rate most of the time is not a multiple of the video's frame rate. Hence, they do not really match.
I have seen image jerking (slightly stuttering) as a regular pattern due to this fact. So the video stutters almost every second but in between these hickups it is smooth.
Would producing blended frames help to prevent these stutters? Because showing the same frame twice SOMETIMES produces an irregular playback timing.
While the queue ensures best timing and clean frame swapping there still needs something to be done to align the display refresh with the video's frame rate.
Maybe interpolation / blending might help to evenly distribute the rendered video images across time to prevent any stuttering at all.
--- End quote ---
Blending for small differences in frame rate is a terrible experience, it would lead to a very obvious distracting effect. Blending can be used when your refresh rate is much higher then the video frame rate, ideally 2-3x at least, but when you achieve that, the timing differences in frames is also already quite minimized.
Personally I run most content at either 120 or 100 Hz (120 for 24/30 fps and 100 for 25/50 fps), its not only an integer multiple of the frame rate, which always results in a more even presentation, its also so high that small corrections result in the "wrong" image shown for 8.3ms, rather then eg. 42ms at 24p.
If you see those kind of timing problems (not everyone does, and some TVs also automatically compensate), I would generally recommend to try to setup matching refresh rates and automatic switching. TVs can generally do all relevant rates, although desktop monitors are more limited.
We might offer blending at some point in the future, but its not planned for right now (eg. most likely not in MC33)
jmone:
--- Quote from: masterjoe on August 27, 2024, 03:00:12 am ---
-> How to evenly align the video frame rate with the video driver's refresh frame rate?
--- End quote ---
The option Hendrik is suggesting is under Tools--> Options--> Video--> Display Settings. Change "Display Settings automatic change mode" to "On". You can customize some option underneath if needed, but it usually works out of the box on most displays and TVs.
terrym@tassie:
--- Quote ---I can't really say why the driver difference causes that, there could be numerous reasons, from different support for MPO (multi-plane overlay, eg. how the Windows desktop is put together), from timing glitches inside the driver. Its always been a constant struggle with NVIDIA.
I'm actually looking forward to Intels Battlemage graphics cards, they might make good dedicated video playback cards.
--- End quote ---
Thanks very much for looking at this, I completely concur, it would be great to a get a GPU that is good for video playback. Fingers crossed maybe the new Intel range will fit the bill.
I don't think the driver issue should cause too many problems as lower frame rate sources such as Bluray play without any drops being recorded in the log. It only affects 50/60p or 25/29i sources and the glitches don't appear (at least to my old eyes) too visually jarring. I'm just going to 'lock down' to using the 537.58 driver as I mainly play 50fps material (and I'm a bit 'OCD' about frame drops). Maybe it will disappear again in a future Nvidia driver release......
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