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Author Topic: New MacOS system maximize, etc buttons  (Read 401 times)

aliciaviola

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New MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« on: January 13, 2025, 09:18:18 am »

Again a big THANK YOU for the new windows management.
Two things don't work as expected:
1) After some time the full-screen-mode is finished without I changed that myself
2) Sometimes - in full-screen-mode - you can't switch between MC and another program.When I want to call MC, the window jumps back to the other program every time.
Frank
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bob

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Re: Thread for feedback on the MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2025, 03:39:13 pm »

Please put feedback for the issue in this thread.

NOTE: The system buttons have ALWAYS been on every window EXCEPT the Standard View UI window. That is non-trivial to change to MC buttons because the windows version uses windows only code so we will attempt to tackle the issues with them individually.
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cncb

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Re: Thread for feedback on the MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2025, 12:45:46 pm »

1) After some time the full-screen-mode is finished without I changed that myself
2) Sometimes - in full-screen-mode - you can't switch between MC and another program.When I want to call MC, the window jumps back to the other program every time.

1) What is MC doing when it exits full screen? How long?
2) How are you trying to switch between programs?  Is the other program also full screen?

Thanks.
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EnglishTiger

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Re: New MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2025, 01:02:46 am »

Using the MacOS Close, Min, Max/Restore Buttons vs retaining the MC versions of those buttons.

Microsoft introduced the ability to use the Max/Restore/Resize Button to Resize and Position a Window back in 2021 when Windows !! was released and MC for Windows has not been amended to make use of those Resize & Move Options.
I seriously doubt if such a Feature/Option will be introduced into any of the multitude of variants of the Linux Operating System. Over the past few years a lot of work has been put in to making MC for the Mac more like MC for the Win so why are we even considering making MC for the Mac very different to MC for both the Win and Linux Platforms.

Let's look at some of the problems those MacOS buttons cause in MC.
The MacOS buttons will only ever do what Apple want them to do, but the MC versions of those buttons could be classed as Intelligent because they do what JRiver have programmed them to do.

The Red Close Button-
The MacOS one will Close MC regardless of what view it is in when the user presses it.
The MC version will:-
Close MC when it is in Standard View
Reopen the Previous View when MC is in Display View or Cover View.
In Mini-View it serves 2 purposes based on how the Tools > Options > General > Behaviour > Mini View close mode Option is set; if it's set to "Close Program" that is what it will do but if it's set to "Return to Standard View" that is what it will do regardless of which view MC was in prior to switching to Mini-View.
In Cover and Display View the Close Button on the Drop-Down PlayerBar Window. it returns MC to the Previous View

The Green Maximise/Restore.
With the MC Version
In Display View the Green Button on the DropDown Player Bar window is the one that is used to Dock/Lock or UnDock/Unlock the PlayerBar Window into Display View.

Mini View doesn't have a maximise button because the only size change the user can make to that PlayerBar is to make it Wider or Narrower
But the Dumb MacOS Resize button doesn't know there isn't a Maximised/Fullscreen Variant of that PlayerBar and the attached image reveals what happens if you use that button.
Oh that's what happens if a TrackInfo Plugin is not being used, if one is being used the Display Panel will be shown alongside the previous, play/pause, stop and next buttons.

With the MacOS buttons the Cover View and Display View Drop Down Playerbar don't have any Close, Minimise or Maximise/Restore Button on them. Yes I do know that the Drop Down PlayerBar never put is an appearance in MC for the Mac but hopefully Bob will be able to work out why it doesn't.

Over 95% of the Available Standard View Skins were created before MC for the Mac was introduced or were only written with use on the Windows Platform in mind, you'd be surprised by the number of MC users/skin creators who forget MC is a Multi-Platform Software Package.
That means that because the Windows Close, Min, Max/Restore Buttons are at the right hand end of the TopBar for those skins the Menus and Shortcut Icons on the Top Toolbar will be placed starting from it's left hand-edge. But that's where the Mac Close, Min, Max/Restore Buttons are placed either by the OS or by Skins that are "Multi-Platform". Yes I know that Apple Hijacks the MC menus and moves them onto the Apple Menu/Header bar, but that still leaves the problem of the Apple OS Buttons sitting on top of the first 2 or 3 shortcut icons and there is nothing the individual MC user can do to rectify that problem.

With the MacOS Buttons we end up with an MC that has reduced functionality and probably every MC for Mac user who can't use Sequoia will be in here complaining, very loudly, about changes made to accommodate an OS Feature that will never be available to them, there may well be some of the Sequoia users complaining as well.

Most of the Available Standard View Skins have an instruction similar to this <Data MinimumWidth="800" MinimumHeight="600"/> in the main.xml file used to build that skin, it prevents the skin being resized to a size lower than those specified by the stated MinimumWidth and Height Values. Even though we have always been allowed to resize MC if and when we do we have to allow for the simple fact that we are going to increase the amount of time we are going to have to spend using the scrollbars to navigate to what it is we want to see/check/change.

Something Apple are keeping very quite about but according to some reports/rumours they are redesigning the MagicMouse and the software it uses to solve some of the problems Mac owners are experiencing/reporting when the new options available via the Green Maximise/Resize Button can result in enough open windows on a single screen to cause the MagicMouse to Malfunction.

But revelations about Sequoia causing weird problems don't surprise me anymore since anyone using it on a PC with an M4 chip is using a different variant to anyone using it on a PC fitted with an M1, M2 or M3 Chip.
There is something about the Apple PC's fitted with an M4 chip that you won't find in any previous Apple PC's and it involves the SSD. Unlike previous Mac PC's which only have 1 System Disc the PC's fitted with an M4 Chip the system disc is actually spread across 2 M2 type discs on the same card. It's something Apple do not mention in their promo/sales literature but was discovered after somebody took a M4 Mac Mini apart and published their findings. The strongest rumours floating around tend to suggest that the twin system disc approach was Apple's quickest/easiest way of concealing the fact that the M4 chip with a Single System Disc revealed just how inefficient the OS and a lot of Apple APs are.


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EnglishTiger

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Re: New MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2025, 03:07:24 am »

Two things don't work as expected:
1) After some time the full-screen-mode is finished without I changed that myself
2) Sometimes - in full-screen-mode - you can't switch between MC and another program.When I want to call MC, the window jumps back to the other program every time.
Frank

Over the last 8 weeks I've been doing some extensive testing of MC which has involved me having it running in FullScreen Mode for between 6 and 8 hours most days and I've never once encountered MC dropping out of FullScreen Mode nor when another App has focus switching from that App to MC the OS failing to give the focus back to to MC.
But I'm prepared to accept that could be because I'm running MC on a M4 Mac Mini with 16Gb of RAM and don't use an Apple non-magical mouse, nor do I use Apple's nonsensical option to resize/position windows.
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bob

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Re: New MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2025, 09:03:34 am »

Thanks for the feedback ET!
Looking at your notes and testing with MC32 and the beta MC33 side by side I am seeing the maximize issue you found on mini view. The maximize button shouldn't be there for sure.
I'm not seeing the close effect on the mini view. It goes back to standard view for me.
Also note that all of the buttons not on the main MC standard view are the system buttons on Mac and always have been.
That is where there is code to intercept them on windows, which is only implemented on windows, because it uses the windows API to do the MC actions you mentioned.

From your feedback ideally those non standard view window button should all be changed to look like the MC on windows (linux BTW has the same behavior as Mac here).
Since we've had some positive feedback on the Maximize on the standard UI window I think it would be useful to keep the system buttons there or at least as an option.

Thoughts?
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EnglishTiger

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Re: New MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2025, 10:37:34 am »

Also note that all of the buttons not on the main MC standard view are the system buttons on Mac and always have been.
That is where the code to intercept them on windows which is only implemented on windows because it uses the windows API is doing the MC actions you mentioned.

From your feedback ideally those non standard view window button should all be changed to look like the MC on windows (linux BTW has the same behavior as Mac here).
Since we've had some positive feedback on the Maximize on the standard UI window I think it would be useful to keep the system buttons there or at least as an option.

Thoughts?

As a skin creator of course I would love the Top Border/Line complete with the MC Buttons on the tops of those none-main standard view window forms/windows to put in a appearance on the mac, but I can live with the current situation since the MacOS Minimise Button is only ever active for the DSP Studio forms/windows; on the Win pc that is the only time it is visible on any of those non main standard view windows.

If there was a way of getting the MC close, minimise, maximise/restore buttons back onto the Cover and Display View DropDown PlayerBar that would solve the problem of those 2 assigning a different purpose to the close and  maximise/restore buttons being assigned to a different purpose to the MacOS ones.

One of these days Apple may sort out those resize/position options to get rid of the unpredictable way it resizes/moves windows. During my testing some of the times it would treat a display panel being used by a TrackInfo plugin correctly as and integral part of the main MC window, at other times it would resize the main MC window but not the display panel and getting the 2 back together could only be achieved by closing and then reopening MC.
But since it has taken Apple 10 years to get round to correcting the stupid modification they made to the MagicMouse I won't be holding my breath waiting for them to fix something I probably will never use.

Since the project "Goodbye Microsoft Buttons" skins are compatible with both the MacOS and MC close, minimise, maximise/restore buttons then as long as there is a minimal loss of overall MC functionality I don't mind if the MacOS Buttons stay
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aliciaviola

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Re: New MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2025, 02:36:14 am »

I still have the problem that the full screen mode finishes at some point without me ending it myself.
This does not happen after a certain time, but at some point, when I switch between different programs by swiping from left to right or right to left with 2 fingers on the Magic Mouse.
And it happens in admittedly very rare cases that the programs suddenly very quickly switch back and forth by themselves, which can only be finished by closing MC.

Nevertheless, I am more than happy that with the new window management I can finally run my Mac routines with MC, too, and would be happy if that is maintained.
I am working on a 2021 16'' MacBook with M1 processor.

Frank
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crashjtm

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Re: New MacOS system maximize, etc buttons
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 01:58:01 pm »

MC 33.0.56 is un-maximizing for me automatically, too.  In my case, I have a reproducible set of steps that I have run on my main machine running macOS 18.3 beta and on a virtual machine running macOS 18.2.  The issue does not happen on my 2014 mac mini running Monterey.

Video of this happening is on YouTube: https://youtu.be/ImV4KRi6DPw

details:
Mac Mini M2 Pro
OS 15.3 Beta (24D5055b)

Steps:
Maximize using system maximize button.
In a pane view, click on an artist
MC un-maximizes.


One other thing I did observe, though, on both the VM and the old Mini is that when I first started MC, the system buttons were missing completely.  I had to restart MC to get them to appear.
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